The Official F1 2023 silly season *contains speculation*
Discussion
Still the lets blame everyone except the actual people involved game. These are Piastri and his manager for the forgetful.
An easy fact to digest is that Alpines plan was for the Piastri to go to williams for a year or so. Here he had a good chance of being show up as ordinary by Albon. Any chance of a big move elsewhere would be dashed.
You would as his manager try and engineer a better deal elsewhere if it was available. Mclaren signed sealed and delivered is a better option as even if Norris blows you away you have several years learning on a solid contract at a top team.
Alpine tried to drag the whole process out and not get caught out with another big time aussie underperformer on big wages.
They are probably better off just claiming the compo and investing in someone else.
Alonso. Amused bystander.
An easy fact to digest is that Alpines plan was for the Piastri to go to williams for a year or so. Here he had a good chance of being show up as ordinary by Albon. Any chance of a big move elsewhere would be dashed.
You would as his manager try and engineer a better deal elsewhere if it was available. Mclaren signed sealed and delivered is a better option as even if Norris blows you away you have several years learning on a solid contract at a top team.
Alpine tried to drag the whole process out and not get caught out with another big time aussie underperformer on big wages.
They are probably better off just claiming the compo and investing in someone else.
Alonso. Amused bystander.
jsf said:
Fundoreen said:
Still the lets blame everyone except the actual people involved game. These are Piastri and his manager for the forgetful.
An easy fact to digest is that Alpines plan was for the Piastri to go to williams for a year or so. Here he had a good chance of being show up as ordinary by Albon. Any chance of a big move elsewhere would be dashed.
You would as his manager try and engineer a better deal elsewhere if it was available. Mclaren signed sealed and delivered is a better option as even if Norris blows you away you have several years learning on a solid contract at a top team.
Alpine tried to drag the whole process out and not get caught out with another big time aussie underperformer on big wages.
They are probably better off just claiming the compo and investing in someone else.
Alonso. Amused bystander.
Alpine are to blaim, if the McLaren contract is legal An easy fact to digest is that Alpines plan was for the Piastri to go to williams for a year or so. Here he had a good chance of being show up as ordinary by Albon. Any chance of a big move elsewhere would be dashed.
You would as his manager try and engineer a better deal elsewhere if it was available. Mclaren signed sealed and delivered is a better option as even if Norris blows you away you have several years learning on a solid contract at a top team.
Alpine tried to drag the whole process out and not get caught out with another big time aussie underperformer on big wages.
They are probably better off just claiming the compo and investing in someone else.
Alonso. Amused bystander.
But the legal status is separate to the above and Alpine may have a case against him for damages.
spikyone said:
Tyre Smoke said:
What is it with Fred that 'endears' him so much to teams?
He seems like a decent enough chap in front of the cameras or when a microphone is shoved under his nose.
Is he really that much of an arse away from the track?
He's often not been all that decent even with a microphone under his nose. He openly criticised Ferrari when he had a decent car, and openly criticised Honda (to the point they wouldn't give him one of their engines in IndyCar) whilst driving for McLaren.He seems like a decent enough chap in front of the cameras or when a microphone is shoved under his nose.
Is he really that much of an arse away from the track?
Away from the cameras he's obviously known for blackmailing McLaren at Hungary in 2007, and I will always believe he knew what was going on at Singapore in 2008.
His times with teams other than Enstone have all ended acrimoniously to some extent or other. It was allegedly his rant about the fully-deserved penalty in Canada that led to Vettel walking out of the drivers' briefing in Austria, so he's even managed to annoy drivers outside his own team.
Great driver but a shocking attitude and as someone else commented, he massively over-values his own importance.
Perhaps his greatest drive during his second McLaren stint at the 2018 Azerbaijan when he was caught up in a first lap collision pitted with damaged bodywork and finished 7th.
Any wonder Zak Brown was so desperate to keep Fernando by any means such as allowing him to race the Indy500 ?
spikyone said:
He openly criticised Ferrari when he had a decent car
Depends what you mean by decent. The Ferrari's during the first half of the 2010s had a lot of understeer. Kimi doesn't like understeer and only Alonso could drive round it to extract performance but there's only so much you can put up with it. Reminds me a bit of Ducatis in MotoGP which only Stoner could tame.This all came to a head and as most know Alonso flaw is he thinks he's bigger than the team, negotiations soured and was out the door of Maranello replaced by another similar sized ego.
Fundoreen said:
Still the lets blame everyone except the actual people involved game. These are Piastri and his manager for the forgetful.
An easy fact to digest is that Alpines plan was for the Piastri to go to williams for a year or so. Here he had a good chance of being show up as ordinary by Albon. Any chance of a big move elsewhere would be dashed.
You would as his manager try and engineer a better deal elsewhere if it was available. Mclaren signed sealed and delivered is a better option as even if Norris blows you away you have several years learning on a solid contract at a top team.
Alpine tried to drag the whole process out and not get caught out with another big time aussie underperformer on big wages.
They are probably better off just claiming the compo and investing in someone else.
Alonso. Amused bystander.
I don't think there's anything wrong with being selfish and ambitious. Too much of it is not a good thing as we have seen with Alonso.An easy fact to digest is that Alpines plan was for the Piastri to go to williams for a year or so. Here he had a good chance of being show up as ordinary by Albon. Any chance of a big move elsewhere would be dashed.
You would as his manager try and engineer a better deal elsewhere if it was available. Mclaren signed sealed and delivered is a better option as even if Norris blows you away you have several years learning on a solid contract at a top team.
Alpine tried to drag the whole process out and not get caught out with another big time aussie underperformer on big wages.
They are probably better off just claiming the compo and investing in someone else.
Alonso. Amused bystander.
When Damon Hill wanted to continue driving for Williams post-1996 he wanted a bigger salary but Frank Williams response, as with Mansell in 1992, "F1 drivers are selfish pre-Madonnas".
Why don't we all just wait till how Piastri's F1 career turns out when some want to paint him as the bad guy. IMHO he's not it's Alpine for twiddling their thumbs and then literally hitting the panic button with a tweet realising they had no driver driving for them next year.
I remember when Jenson Button tried to engineer moves to leave and then stay at Honda. Even if he was "badly advised" I was unimpressed at the time just as he was turning a corner from his playboy image at Renault. And look how his career turned out: fulfilled his potential as a top class F1 driver with a WDC, and above all, is and still a fan favourite.
People have an odd way of processing any news with Alonso or a 3rd party in a group with him.
The fact Piastri had his secret deal exposed by Alonso leaving means it was secret. If Alonso had know he would have
stayed at Alpine, confident he would get multiple extensions.
So he couldn't have known anything. It just flushed out the plotterers working in the shadows while snaffling up Alpine resources.
Anyway good luck to all of them. Its only car racing.
The fact Piastri had his secret deal exposed by Alonso leaving means it was secret. If Alonso had know he would have
stayed at Alpine, confident he would get multiple extensions.
So he couldn't have known anything. It just flushed out the plotterers working in the shadows while snaffling up Alpine resources.
Anyway good luck to all of them. Its only car racing.
HustleRussell said:
I think Lawrence is all about the cashet of having a WDC in the car. Signing Alonso is a statement of intent as much as anything.
Yup.. It's most likely a Stroll "Look at us, we've got a 2 time World Champion, isn't that impressive?" ego statement.They could have Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel on the payroll but it wouldn't make a difference if they don't have the right team to design the car.
Fundoreen said:
People have an odd way of processing any news with Alonso or a 3rd party in a group with him.
The fact Piastri had his secret deal exposed by Alonso leaving means it was secret. If Alonso had know he would have
stayed at Alpine, confident he would get multiple extensions.
So he couldn't have known anything. It just flushed out the plotterers working in the shadows while snaffling up Alpine resources.
Anyway good luck to all of them. Its only car racing.
As some have said before: Alonso did what he did to screw Alpine because his ego was dented and he didn't want a repeat of 2007 (LH hands FA his arse on a platter). The fact Piastri had his secret deal exposed by Alonso leaving means it was secret. If Alonso had know he would have
stayed at Alpine, confident he would get multiple extensions.
So he couldn't have known anything. It just flushed out the plotterers working in the shadows while snaffling up Alpine resources.
Anyway good luck to all of them. Its only car racing.
Upset with not being fawned over in the way to which he has become accustomed, he set out to sabotage Alpine.
Were Alpine on their game? No, that's obvious and they were badly wrong-footed but that is how FA operates and they should have known better.
I'll repeat what I said earlier: Alonso is Toxic (and a lying, cheating POS).
mw88 said:
Yup.. It's most likely a Stroll "Look at us, we've got a 2 time World Champion, isn't that impressive?" ego statement.
They could have Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel on the payroll but it wouldn't make a difference if they don't have the right team to design the car.
Sir Jackie Stewart politely refused. They could have Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel on the payroll but it wouldn't make a difference if they don't have the right team to design the car.
vaud said:
spikyone said:
I will always believe he knew what was going on at Singapore in 2008.
i actually take the opposite view - that he might have suspected it (after the event) but Flavio and Pat kept him out of the plan so that he could (truthfully) say on oath that he knew nothing about it.entropy said:
The flipside is Alonso is a great driver for a reason: he consistently gets the best out of the car. He was consistently scoring points for McLaren with a GP2 engine and more or less destroyed Stoffel Vandoorne's F1 career in the process.
I'm not denying he's a very fast driver, the discussion was about the suggestion that he seems like a decent guy. FWIW though plenty of young hotshoes have been put in their place once they reached F1; look at the gulf between Magnussen and Schu Jr...spikyone said:
He openly criticised Ferrari when he had a decent car
Depends what you mean by decent. The Ferrari's during the first half of the 2010s had a lot of understeer. Kimi doesn't like understeer and only Alonso could drive round it to extract performance but there's only so much you can put up with it. Reminds me a bit of Ducatis in MotoGP which only Stoner could tame.spikyone said:
vaud said:
spikyone said:
I will always believe he knew what was going on at Singapore in 2008.
i actually take the opposite view - that he might have suspected it (after the event) but Flavio and Pat kept him out of the plan so that he could (truthfully) say on oath that he knew nothing about it.Convenient? Absolutely. But Alonso, like the rest of us, probably never thought someone would crash on purpose.
Likes Fast Cars said:
As some have said before: Alonso did what he did to screw Alpine because his ego was dented and he didn't want a repeat of 2007 (LH hands FA his arse on a platter).
Upset with not being fawned over in the way to which he has become accustomed, he set out to sabotage Alpine.
How would that have come about? If Alonso had stayed at Alpine he would have been up against Ocon who, no disrespect, doesn't look likely to hand anyone their posterieur on a plate. Upset with not being fawned over in the way to which he has become accustomed, he set out to sabotage Alpine.
I think Alpine sabotaged themselves.
boyse7en said:
Likes Fast Cars said:
As some have said before: Alonso did what he did to screw Alpine because his ego was dented and he didn't want a repeat of 2007 (LH hands FA his arse on a platter).
Upset with not being fawned over in the way to which he has become accustomed, he set out to sabotage Alpine.
How would that have come about? If Alonso had stayed at Alpine he would have been up against Ocon who, no disrespect, doesn't look likely to hand anyone their posterieur on a plate. Upset with not being fawned over in the way to which he has become accustomed, he set out to sabotage Alpine.
I think Alpine sabotaged themselves.
Alonso hasn't done anything to sabotage Alpine, other than not telling them he was going to sign for AM. He has broken no contracts, and was a free agent for 2023 to sign with whomever he could get the best deal from. Tough titties for Alpine if they failed to offer sufficient to retain their driver.
spikyone said:
I'm not denying he's a very fast driver, the discussion was about the suggestion that he seems like a decent guy.
The discussion is also about why teams are endeared to Alonso. First and foremost he's a top class driver and teams are wiling to gamble to put up with the aggro. He is not the first driver nor sportsperson to have employers bend over backwards.Merc allowed Hamilton's bling lifestyle without complaint despite the critics; Marlboro were desperate to keep Senna at McLaren in '93; when all other options failed Williams turned back to Mansell for '92.
spikyone said:
FWIW though plenty of young hotshoes have been put in their place once they reached F1; look at the gulf between Magnussen and Schu Jr...
It doesn't happen often but irony of that remark is that it was Hamilton who put Alonso in his place and we ended up seeing Alonso's true colours. People who say Piastri may not be up to scratch even though he has never raced an F1 car. He needs to race, end of. If he's not good enough Alpine can simply ditch him. Red Bull have doing this for years.
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