The Official F1 2023 silly season *contains speculation*

The Official F1 2023 silly season *contains speculation*

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Fundoreen

4,180 posts

84 months

Friday 12th August 2022
quotequote all
Still the lets blame everyone except the actual people involved game. These are Piastri and his manager for the forgetful.
An easy fact to digest is that Alpines plan was for the Piastri to go to williams for a year or so. Here he had a good chance of being show up as ordinary by Albon. Any chance of a big move elsewhere would be dashed.
You would as his manager try and engineer a better deal elsewhere if it was available. Mclaren signed sealed and delivered is a better option as even if Norris blows you away you have several years learning on a solid contract at a top team.
Alpine tried to drag the whole process out and not get caught out with another big time aussie underperformer on big wages.
They are probably better off just claiming the compo and investing in someone else.
Alonso. Amused bystander.


andburg

7,333 posts

170 months

Friday 12th August 2022
quotequote all
jsf said:
Alpine are to blaim, if the McLaren contract is legal
Agreed if you don't start contract negotiations before your options expire you're telling the driver they're not valued or that you're incompetent

honda_exige

6,055 posts

207 months

Friday 12th August 2022
quotequote all
jsf said:
Fundoreen said:
Still the lets blame everyone except the actual people involved game. These are Piastri and his manager for the forgetful.
An easy fact to digest is that Alpines plan was for the Piastri to go to williams for a year or so. Here he had a good chance of being show up as ordinary by Albon. Any chance of a big move elsewhere would be dashed.
You would as his manager try and engineer a better deal elsewhere if it was available. Mclaren signed sealed and delivered is a better option as even if Norris blows you away you have several years learning on a solid contract at a top team.
Alpine tried to drag the whole process out and not get caught out with another big time aussie underperformer on big wages.
They are probably better off just claiming the compo and investing in someone else.
Alonso. Amused bystander.
Alpine are to blaim, if the McLaren contract is legal
Yep, seems the Piastri contract was between him and the Alpine Drivers Academy, not an F1 team so never registered with the CRB. So the only valid F1 contract in the CRBs eyes is the McLaren one.

But the legal status is separate to the above and Alpine may have a case against him for damages.

entropy

5,455 posts

204 months

Friday 12th August 2022
quotequote all
spikyone said:
Tyre Smoke said:
What is it with Fred that 'endears' him so much to teams?

He seems like a decent enough chap in front of the cameras or when a microphone is shoved under his nose.

Is he really that much of an arse away from the track?
He's often not been all that decent even with a microphone under his nose. He openly criticised Ferrari when he had a decent car, and openly criticised Honda (to the point they wouldn't give him one of their engines in IndyCar) whilst driving for McLaren.

Away from the cameras he's obviously known for blackmailing McLaren at Hungary in 2007, and I will always believe he knew what was going on at Singapore in 2008.
His times with teams other than Enstone have all ended acrimoniously to some extent or other. It was allegedly his rant about the fully-deserved penalty in Canada that led to Vettel walking out of the drivers' briefing in Austria, so he's even managed to annoy drivers outside his own team.

Great driver but a shocking attitude and as someone else commented, he massively over-values his own importance.
The flipside is Alonso is a great driver for a reason: he consistently gets the best out of the car. He was consistently scoring points for McLaren with a GP2 engine and more or less destroyed Stoffel Vandoorne's F1 career in the process.

Perhaps his greatest drive during his second McLaren stint at the 2018 Azerbaijan when he was caught up in a first lap collision pitted with damaged bodywork and finished 7th.

Any wonder Zak Brown was so desperate to keep Fernando by any means such as allowing him to race the Indy500 ?

spikyone said:
He openly criticised Ferrari when he had a decent car
Depends what you mean by decent. The Ferrari's during the first half of the 2010s had a lot of understeer. Kimi doesn't like understeer and only Alonso could drive round it to extract performance but there's only so much you can put up with it. Reminds me a bit of Ducatis in MotoGP which only Stoner could tame.

This all came to a head and as most know Alonso flaw is he thinks he's bigger than the team, negotiations soured and was out the door of Maranello replaced by another similar sized ego.


ajprice

27,652 posts

197 months

Friday 12th August 2022
quotequote all
entropy said:
Reminds me a bit of Ducatis in MotoGP which only Stoner could tame.
Similar now with Honda and Marquez, except he's been injured for the last 2 years and they've been out of it except for when he tried to come back for a while.

entropy

5,455 posts

204 months

Friday 12th August 2022
quotequote all
Fundoreen said:
Still the lets blame everyone except the actual people involved game. These are Piastri and his manager for the forgetful.
An easy fact to digest is that Alpines plan was for the Piastri to go to williams for a year or so. Here he had a good chance of being show up as ordinary by Albon. Any chance of a big move elsewhere would be dashed.
You would as his manager try and engineer a better deal elsewhere if it was available. Mclaren signed sealed and delivered is a better option as even if Norris blows you away you have several years learning on a solid contract at a top team.
Alpine tried to drag the whole process out and not get caught out with another big time aussie underperformer on big wages.
They are probably better off just claiming the compo and investing in someone else.
Alonso. Amused bystander.
I don't think there's anything wrong with being selfish and ambitious. Too much of it is not a good thing as we have seen with Alonso.

When Damon Hill wanted to continue driving for Williams post-1996 he wanted a bigger salary but Frank Williams response, as with Mansell in 1992, "F1 drivers are selfish pre-Madonnas".

Why don't we all just wait till how Piastri's F1 career turns out when some want to paint him as the bad guy. IMHO he's not it's Alpine for twiddling their thumbs and then literally hitting the panic button with a tweet realising they had no driver driving for them next year.

I remember when Jenson Button tried to engineer moves to leave and then stay at Honda. Even if he was "badly advised" I was unimpressed at the time just as he was turning a corner from his playboy image at Renault. And look how his career turned out: fulfilled his potential as a top class F1 driver with a WDC, and above all, is and still a fan favourite.


Fundoreen

4,180 posts

84 months

Friday 12th August 2022
quotequote all
People have an odd way of processing any news with Alonso or a 3rd party in a group with him.
The fact Piastri had his secret deal exposed by Alonso leaving means it was secret. If Alonso had know he would have
stayed at Alpine, confident he would get multiple extensions.
So he couldn't have known anything. It just flushed out the plotterers working in the shadows while snaffling up Alpine resources.
Anyway good luck to all of them. Its only car racing.

HustleRussell

24,758 posts

161 months

Friday 12th August 2022
quotequote all
vaud said:
Tyre Smoke said:
What is it with Fred that 'endears' him so much to teams?
Speed, experience and racecraft?
I think Lawrence is all about the cashet of having a WDC in the car. Signing Alonso is a statement of intent as much as anything.

Likes Fast Cars

2,780 posts

166 months

Friday 12th August 2022
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
I think Lawrence is all about the cashet of having a WDC in the car. Signing Alonso is a statement of intent as much as anything.
...and the whinging and whining that goes with FA and his baggage.

mw88

1,457 posts

112 months

Friday 12th August 2022
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
I think Lawrence is all about the cashet of having a WDC in the car. Signing Alonso is a statement of intent as much as anything.
Yup.. It's most likely a Stroll "Look at us, we've got a 2 time World Champion, isn't that impressive?" ego statement.

They could have Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel on the payroll but it wouldn't make a difference if they don't have the right team to design the car.



Likes Fast Cars

2,780 posts

166 months

Friday 12th August 2022
quotequote all
Fundoreen said:
People have an odd way of processing any news with Alonso or a 3rd party in a group with him.
The fact Piastri had his secret deal exposed by Alonso leaving means it was secret. If Alonso had know he would have
stayed at Alpine, confident he would get multiple extensions.
So he couldn't have known anything. It just flushed out the plotterers working in the shadows while snaffling up Alpine resources.
Anyway good luck to all of them. Its only car racing.
As some have said before: Alonso did what he did to screw Alpine because his ego was dented and he didn't want a repeat of 2007 (LH hands FA his arse on a platter).
Upset with not being fawned over in the way to which he has become accustomed, he set out to sabotage Alpine.
Were Alpine on their game? No, that's obvious and they were badly wrong-footed but that is how FA operates and they should have known better.

I'll repeat what I said earlier: Alonso is Toxic (and a lying, cheating POS).

Milkyway

9,489 posts

54 months

Friday 12th August 2022
quotequote all
mw88 said:
Yup.. It's most likely a Stroll "Look at us, we've got a 2 time World Champion, isn't that impressive?" ego statement.

They could have Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel on the payroll but it wouldn't make a difference if they don't have the right team to design the car.
Sir Jackie Stewart politely refused. rolleyes

spikyone

1,480 posts

101 months

Friday 12th August 2022
quotequote all
vaud said:
spikyone said:
I will always believe he knew what was going on at Singapore in 2008.
i actually take the opposite view - that he might have suspected it (after the event) but Flavio and Pat kept him out of the plan so that he could (truthfully) say on oath that he knew nothing about it.
The strategy was so far off anything reasonable for that race that he'd have to be a complete idiot not to ask any questions. I sat watching it at the time thinking it was far too convenient, but not quite able to believe that a team would ask their driver to deliberately crash. If some bloke who likes F1 thought the strategy was weird, a double champion - well-known for liking a bit of an argument - would've taken quite some convincing to be fuelled so light.

entropy said:
The flipside is Alonso is a great driver for a reason: he consistently gets the best out of the car. He was consistently scoring points for McLaren with a GP2 engine and more or less destroyed Stoffel Vandoorne's F1 career in the process.
I'm not denying he's a very fast driver, the discussion was about the suggestion that he seems like a decent guy. FWIW though plenty of young hotshoes have been put in their place once they reached F1; look at the gulf between Magnussen and Schu Jr...

spikyone said:
He openly criticised Ferrari when he had a decent car
Depends what you mean by decent. The Ferrari's during the first half of the 2010s had a lot of understeer. Kimi doesn't like understeer and only Alonso could drive round it to extract performance but there's only so much you can put up with it. Reminds me a bit of Ducatis in MotoGP which only Stoner could tame.
By "decent", I mean a car capable of winning a few races every season. It was no Red Bull but for the first few years of his time at Ferrari, it was a car that allowed him to fight at the sharp end. Fernando still found a way to annoy the team with his frequent public complaints.

Muzzer79

10,131 posts

188 months

Friday 12th August 2022
quotequote all
spikyone said:
vaud said:
spikyone said:
I will always believe he knew what was going on at Singapore in 2008.
i actually take the opposite view - that he might have suspected it (after the event) but Flavio and Pat kept him out of the plan so that he could (truthfully) say on oath that he knew nothing about it.
The strategy was so far off anything reasonable for that race that he'd have to be a complete idiot not to ask any questions.
Not really. Someone (it happened to be his team mate) crashed, it looked like a safety car and his team brought him in for a pit stop. It was maybe a little early but from where they were in the race, it was worth the risk.

Convenient? Absolutely. But Alonso, like the rest of us, probably never thought someone would crash on purpose.


Tyre Smoke

23,018 posts

262 months

Friday 12th August 2022
quotequote all
What did Fred do to McLaren in 2007?

boyse7en

6,772 posts

166 months

Friday 12th August 2022
quotequote all
Likes Fast Cars said:
As some have said before: Alonso did what he did to screw Alpine because his ego was dented and he didn't want a repeat of 2007 (LH hands FA his arse on a platter).
Upset with not being fawned over in the way to which he has become accustomed, he set out to sabotage Alpine.
How would that have come about? If Alonso had stayed at Alpine he would have been up against Ocon who, no disrespect, doesn't look likely to hand anyone their posterieur on a plate.
I think Alpine sabotaged themselves.

carl_w

9,210 posts

259 months

Friday 12th August 2022
quotequote all
entropy said:
When Damon Hill wanted to continue driving for Williams post-1996 he wanted a bigger salary but Frank Williams response, as with Mansell in 1992, "F1 drivers are selfish pre-Madonnas".
rofl

thegreenhell

15,524 posts

220 months

Friday 12th August 2022
quotequote all
boyse7en said:
Likes Fast Cars said:
As some have said before: Alonso did what he did to screw Alpine because his ego was dented and he didn't want a repeat of 2007 (LH hands FA his arse on a platter).
Upset with not being fawned over in the way to which he has become accustomed, he set out to sabotage Alpine.
How would that have come about? If Alonso had stayed at Alpine he would have been up against Ocon who, no disrespect, doesn't look likely to hand anyone their posterieur on a plate.
I think Alpine sabotaged themselves.
Exactly. I think some people are creating their own stories in their minds. There is no scenario here where Alonso and Piastri would have been teammates.

Alonso hasn't done anything to sabotage Alpine, other than not telling them he was going to sign for AM. He has broken no contracts, and was a free agent for 2023 to sign with whomever he could get the best deal from. Tough titties for Alpine if they failed to offer sufficient to retain their driver.

BrettMRC

4,147 posts

161 months

Friday 12th August 2022
quotequote all
Tyre Smoke said:
What did Fred do to McLaren in 2007?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Formula_One_espionage_controversy

entropy

5,455 posts

204 months

Friday 12th August 2022
quotequote all
spikyone said:
I'm not denying he's a very fast driver, the discussion was about the suggestion that he seems like a decent guy.
The discussion is also about why teams are endeared to Alonso. First and foremost he's a top class driver and teams are wiling to gamble to put up with the aggro. He is not the first driver nor sportsperson to have employers bend over backwards.

Merc allowed Hamilton's bling lifestyle without complaint despite the critics; Marlboro were desperate to keep Senna at McLaren in '93; when all other options failed Williams turned back to Mansell for '92.


spikyone said:
FWIW though plenty of young hotshoes have been put in their place once they reached F1; look at the gulf between Magnussen and Schu Jr...
It doesn't happen often but irony of that remark is that it was Hamilton who put Alonso in his place and we ended up seeing Alonso's true colours.

People who say Piastri may not be up to scratch even though he has never raced an F1 car. He needs to race, end of. If he's not good enough Alpine can simply ditch him. Red Bull have doing this for years.