The Official F1 2023 silly season *contains speculation*
Discussion
Likes Fast Cars said:
Fundoreen said:
People have an odd way of processing any news with Alonso or a 3rd party in a group with him.
The fact Piastri had his secret deal exposed by Alonso leaving means it was secret. If Alonso had know he would have
stayed at Alpine, confident he would get multiple extensions.
So he couldn't have known anything. It just flushed out the plotterers working in the shadows while snaffling up Alpine resources.
Anyway good luck to all of them. Its only car racing.
As some have said before: Alonso did what he did to screw Alpine because his ego was dented and he didn't want a repeat of 2007 (LH hands FA his arse on a platter). The fact Piastri had his secret deal exposed by Alonso leaving means it was secret. If Alonso had know he would have
stayed at Alpine, confident he would get multiple extensions.
So he couldn't have known anything. It just flushed out the plotterers working in the shadows while snaffling up Alpine resources.
Anyway good luck to all of them. Its only car racing.
Upset with not being fawned over in the way to which he has become accustomed, he set out to sabotage Alpine.
Were Alpine on their game? No, that's obvious and they were badly wrong-footed but that is how FA operates and they should have known better.
I'll repeat what I said earlier: Alonso is Toxic (and a lying, cheating POS).
carl_w said:
entropy said:
When Damon Hill wanted to continue driving for Williams post-1996 he wanted a bigger salary but Frank Williams response, as with Mansell in 1992, "F1 drivers are selfish pre-Madonnas".
Oh, and anyone who thinks fred wasn't in on Singapore '08, you're a wallah.
jsf said:
Williams signed Frentzen at the start of 96 because they gave up on Hill after his poor 95 season. They didn't expect him to win the championship. Another cockup on driver choice by Frank and Patrick. Money was not the issue.
The s
tty thing they did was not tell Damon until late in the season after all the decent drives had been sealed, which is how he ended up in the Arrows.
In that case it was a driver expecting loyalty from the team he pulled out of the doldrums after the death of Senna.
F1 doesn't do loyalty.
Andrew Benson broke the story for Autosport on the eve of the 1996 German GP but there were negotiations across the summer.The s
tty thing they did was not tell Damon until late in the season after all the decent drives had been sealed, which is how he ended up in the Arrows.In that case it was a driver expecting loyalty from the team he pulled out of the doldrums after the death of Senna.
F1 doesn't do loyalty.
Williams had an option on Hill if he had won the WDC; along with his team mate Jacques Villeneuve, Hill was a genuine contender for the WDC.
Hill was still on his original retainer as a number 2 driver to Prost but was competing for WDCs after the death of Senna. Hill obviously wanted to stay with Williams but wanted a salary reflecting his change in status.
Hill ended up driving for Arrows because he could drive for them for a year and still be paid a large retainer thus giving him the option to find another team - which he did with Jordan.
Teddy Lop said:
carl_w said:
entropy said:
When Damon Hill wanted to continue driving for Williams post-1996 he wanted a bigger salary but Frank Williams response, as with Mansell in 1992, "F1 drivers are selfish pre-Madonnas".
boyse7en said:
Likes Fast Cars said:
As some have said before: Alonso did what he did to screw Alpine because his ego was dented and he didn't want a repeat of 2007 (LH hands FA his arse on a platter).
Upset with not being fawned over in the way to which he has become accustomed, he set out to sabotage Alpine.
How would that have come about? If Alonso had stayed at Alpine he would have been up against Ocon who, no disrespect, doesn't look likely to hand anyone their posterieur on a plate. Upset with not being fawned over in the way to which he has become accustomed, he set out to sabotage Alpine.
I think Alpine sabotaged themselves.
FA was pissed at the Alpine management for not treating him the god he thinks he is; when the opportunity came up at AM, he couldn't resist shafting Alpine. he threw his toys out of the pram.
If he was a decent person he would have called Otmar and said "Look, I know I said we are almost done on concluding a new deal but this opportunity for a multi-year deal at AM has come up and I am about to sign it." (or: "I have just signed it, there will be a statement forthcoming, sorry about that, stuff happens. Good luck for the future I know you have Oscar on the books and here is the opportunity he wanted".) FA wanted to shaft Alpine. He has form.
I agree with you Ocon is not about to comprehensively beat FA (and I never said he would or could!).
The fact is Lewis comprehensively wiped the floor with FA in 2007, straight out of the box in race 1 and FA didn't expect that to happen. In my view FA was crapping his nappy about history repeating by having Piastri breathing down his neck just waiting to run in FP (to set stellar times) and / or to sub for Ocon in a race and potentially show FA up as not as good as he thinks he is.
carl_w said:
entropy said:
When Damon Hill wanted to continue driving for Williams post-1996 he wanted a bigger salary but Frank Williams response, as with Mansell in 1992, "F1 drivers are selfish pre-Madonnas".
Muzzer79 said:
spikyone said:
vaud said:
spikyone said:
I will always believe he knew what was going on at Singapore in 2008.
i actually take the opposite view - that he might have suspected it (after the event) but Flavio and Pat kept him out of the plan so that he could (truthfully) say on oath that he knew nothing about it.Convenient? Absolutely. But Alonso, like the rest of us, probably never thought someone would crash on purpose.
It’s possible that Flavio just said “Trust Me” to Fernando, with a nudge and a wink, to allow the driver to maintain deniability of the whole plan, but Fernando and his race engineer must have challenged the idea of stopping so early in the race, which would have likely cost him track position at a circuit where overtaking is difficult.
Sandpit Steve said:
Alonso’s pit stop was on Lap 12, a couple of laps before Piquet Jr crashed. Stopping so early made no sense at all, unless he knew there were several laps of safety car about to happen.
It’s possible that Flavio just said “Trust Me” to Fernando, with a nudge and a wink, to allow the driver to maintain deniability of the whole plan, but Fernando and his race engineer must have challenged the idea of stopping so early in the race, which would have likely cost him track position at a circuit where overtaking is difficult.
Piquet tested his spinning limits that would become useful later on the formation lap - https://youtu.be/Txp7ORtCqdg?t=38It’s possible that Flavio just said “Trust Me” to Fernando, with a nudge and a wink, to allow the driver to maintain deniability of the whole plan, but Fernando and his race engineer must have challenged the idea of stopping so early in the race, which would have likely cost him track position at a circuit where overtaking is difficult.
vaud said:
Adrian W said:
I was never that convinced, I think the one with a serious amount of talent is Dennis Hauger
Successive F3 and F2 championships? How high do you want to set the bar?He'd have to win the F3 Championship half way through the season, move immediately to F2 and the win that.
But to gain proper credibility from the real armchair expert, he'd have top win LeMans, and Indy500 in the same year.
Even then, he'd be 'lucky'.
Likes Fast Cars said:
The fact is Lewis comprehensively wiped the floor with FA in 2007, straight out of the box in race 1 and FA didn't expect that to happen. In my view FA was crapping his nappy about history repeating by having Piastri breathing down his neck just waiting to run in FP (to set stellar times) and / or to sub for Ocon in a race and potentially show FA up as not as good as he thinks he is.
Point of order, but that just didn't happen though, did it? FA outscored LH in the first two races so not "wiping the floor straight out of the box in race 1". They finished equal on 109 points at the end of the season. FA certainly thought he was going to have an easy ride, which isn't how it turned out, as we all know. And for the record, I agree that FA is an arse, but LH (egged on, I think, by his dad) wasn't a saint on at least one occasion though. None of which makes FA's role in Stepneygate acceptable behaviour.Kim
kimducati said:
Point of order, but that just didn't happen though, did it? FA outscored LH in the first two races so not "wiping the floor straight out of the box in race 1". They finished equal on 109 points at the end of the season. FA certainly thought he was going to have an easy ride, which isn't how it turned out, as we all know. And for the record, I agree that FA is an arse, but LH (egged on, I think, by his dad) wasn't a saint on at least one occasion though. None of which makes FA's role in Stepneygate acceptable behaviour.
Kim
Let's not also forget that that Stepneygate resulted in Nigel Stepney being dead. Kim
kimducati said:
Likes Fast Cars said:
The fact is Lewis comprehensively wiped the floor with FA in 2007, straight out of the box in race 1 and FA didn't expect that to happen. In my view FA was crapping his nappy about history repeating by having Piastri breathing down his neck just waiting to run in FP (to set stellar times) and / or to sub for Ocon in a race and potentially show FA up as not as good as he thinks he is.
Point of order, but that just didn't happen though, did it? FA outscored LH in the first two races so not "wiping the floor straight out of the box in race 1". They finished equal on 109 points at the end of the season. FA certainly thought he was going to have an easy ride, which isn't how it turned out, as we all know. And for the record, I agree that FA is an arse, but LH (egged on, I think, by his dad) wasn't a saint on at least one occasion though. None of which makes FA's role in Stepneygate acceptable behaviour.Kim
I think it's fair to say a 2 x WDC (with an ego bigger than F1 itself) being shown up by a rookie team-mate could be termed as wiping the floor. However I'll accept that many wouldn't see it the the same way, fair enough.
I do recall being pleasantly surprised by Lewis from the moment he started in F1, raw talent. On not being a saint, I wonder if the advice was "play FA at his own game"? If so, job done!
The whole Ferrari / Stepney gate affair was appalling and said a lot about FA.
:smile:entropy said:
spikyone said:
I'm not denying he's a very fast driver, the discussion was about the suggestion that he seems like a decent guy.
The discussion is also about why teams are endeared to Alonso. First and foremost he's a top class driver and teams are wiling to gamble to put up with the aggro. He is not the first driver nor sportsperson to have employers bend over backwards.Merc allowed Hamilton's bling lifestyle without complaint despite the critics;
LH is allowed to live his lifestyle how he wants away from the race track not in team clothing as long as it doesnt affect his performance, he also doesnt harshly critise the team.
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