Discussion
Teddy Lop said:
PhilAsia said:
My take on Schiff and Bernie is this.
Schiff has not got a great deal of experience, therefore she gets flak. Because she is black she gets far more attention than her many, many, many inexperienced white counterparts that came before her.
Bernie is experienced, therefore she gets praised.
A certain Danica Patrick aka probably the most accomplished race car driver of this era (leaving aside drag) got a bit blasted for her insights when it was obvious to many of us you'd need double spacing to fit what she knows of F1 on a postage stamp.Schiff has not got a great deal of experience, therefore she gets flak. Because she is black she gets far more attention than her many, many, many inexperienced white counterparts that came before her.
Bernie is experienced, therefore she gets praised.
My take on you is that you're looking to find where racism can be an explanation for something and as such you will see it everywhere.
And it will seem to you legitimate. It's fine to have a bias or a leaning, it's what makes us characters, but sometimes you need to be self aware and try to steel man the arguement if you want to be rounded.
Bernie Collins is fantastic, she understands F1 inside out, but possibly needs a little more media training or experience. Her audience is the people on this forum, who understand most of the technicalities and don’t like the punditry being dumbed down.
If you need to make a ‘diversity hire’, then Naomi is a good choice. She knows a lot of the F1 drivers, has driven single seater cars, is clearly articulate and presents well. The negative comments are generally not because she’s a black woman, but for her lack of experience at the top level. TV companies such as Sky, are under pressure to ‘diversify’ their on-screen ‘talent’, and they could have done worse. There’s not an awful lot of former F1 drivers out there to hire.
Sandpit Steve said:
Blib said:
The only person who has reason to be aerated over Schiff's presence on SKY's F1 output is Simon Lazenby.
She is just right for his role. They are training her up, live on TV.
Pinkham’s the one who should be really worried. She is just right for his role. They are training her up, live on TV.
I did cringe this weekend when Naomi talked over Jenson - she just raised her voice and continued until he stopped talking! I wonder how they are taught to deal with that, probably by one being gracious and 'sorry, go ahead xyz', or being quicker to recognise the cue that someone is joining the conversation.
I'm not anti-Naomi at all by the way, this is just an observation from the weekend just gone
.number2 said:
Sandpit Steve said:
Blib said:
The only person who has reason to be aerated over Schiff's presence on SKY's F1 output is Simon Lazenby.
She is just right for his role. They are training her up, live on TV.
Pinkham’s the one who should be really worried. She is just right for his role. They are training her up, live on TV.
I did cringe this weekend when Naomi talked over Jenson - she just raised her voice and continued until he stopped talking! I wonder how they are taught to deal with that, probably by one being gracious and 'sorry, go ahead xyz', or being quicker to recognise the cue that someone is joining the conversation.
I'm not anti-Naomi at all by the way, this is just an observation from the weekend just gone
.Sandpit Steve said:
From my limited experience, it’s way more difficult than it looks. They have a producer (calling guests and movements) and a director (calling cameras) talking in their ear, there’s a lot of background noise, and for a live event don’t have a huge amount of scripting. They all have a point they wish to get across, and the skill is realising when the conversation has moved on.
Absolutely. I'm not suggesting it's easy, more perhaps that this demonstrated it isn't.HustleRussell said:
super7 said:
I was fascinated on the Monaco coverage with Schiff's insight's into F1 Contract Negotiation?????
How many of those has she been involved with.... and that's not Liberty F1 TV pundit negotiation which is probably the only contract she's seen with the words F1 written in it, and that was only in the addendum of the contract where it said 'Little to no knowledge of F1 is required for this role'!!
Do you believe what she said on the subject to be incorrect?How many of those has she been involved with.... and that's not Liberty F1 TV pundit negotiation which is probably the only contract she's seen with the words F1 written in it, and that was only in the addendum of the contract where it said 'Little to no knowledge of F1 is required for this role'!!
After she'd come out with her little spiel, Brundle then qualified his comments by stating straight away he'd negotiated his own F1 contracts, with some big teams and had also managed and therefore negotiated contracts with other drivers. I know what he's saying to be fact.
This is the difference between a pundit and a presenter. Yet again Sky have labelled her as a font of all knowledge with regards to F1 which she blatantly isn't. She's great as a presenter, but not as a pundit.
Either way, I now record all the sessions so I can just fast forward through all her pieces.
Sandpit Steve said:
Bernie Collins is fantastic, she understands F1 inside out, but possibly needs a little more media training or experience. Her audience is the people on this forum, who understand most of the technicalities and don’t like the punditry being dumbed down.
Bernie reminds me a little of Alan Shearer when he first started as a pundit. A bit wooden and uneasy in front of the cameras, but knows what they are talking about and makes some good points. Over time he started to relax and now looks a lot more at ease on TV. I'm hoping Bernie will get the same opportunity (and on a separate, slightly related point, if James Vowles ever fancied a change in career I think he'd make a good addition to the presenting team. I quite enjoyed his input last weekend, he explained things quite well and in a lot more detail than a lot of the other TP's do when they get brought into the coverage from the pit wall)
Harry Flatters said:
super7 said:
Either way, I now record all the sessions so I can just fast forward through all her pieces.
DittoDid I mention fascinating...?
Teddy Lop said:
PhilAsia said:
My take on Schiff and Bernie is this.
Schiff has not got a great deal of experience, therefore she gets flak. Because she is black she gets far more attention than her many, many, many inexperienced white counterparts that came before her.
Bernie is experienced, therefore she gets praised.
A certain Danica Patrick aka probably the most accomplished race car driver of this era (leaving aside drag) got a bit blasted for her insights when it was obvious to many of us you'd need double spacing to fit what she knows of F1 on a postage stamp.Schiff has not got a great deal of experience, therefore she gets flak. Because she is black she gets far more attention than her many, many, many inexperienced white counterparts that came before her.
Bernie is experienced, therefore she gets praised.
My take on you is that you're looking to find where racism can be an explanation for something and as such you will see it everywhere.
And it will seem to you legitimate. It's fine to have a bias or a leaning, it's what makes us characters, but sometimes you need to be self aware and try to steel man the arguement if you want to be rounded.
super7 said:
HustleRussell said:
super7 said:
I was fascinated on the Monaco coverage with Schiff's insight's into F1 Contract Negotiation?????
How many of those has she been involved with.... and that's not Liberty F1 TV pundit negotiation which is probably the only contract she's seen with the words F1 written in it, and that was only in the addendum of the contract where it said 'Little to no knowledge of F1 is required for this role'!!
Do you believe what she said on the subject to be incorrect?How many of those has she been involved with.... and that's not Liberty F1 TV pundit negotiation which is probably the only contract she's seen with the words F1 written in it, and that was only in the addendum of the contract where it said 'Little to no knowledge of F1 is required for this role'!!
After she'd come out with her little spiel, Brundle then qualified his comments by stating straight away he'd negotiated his own F1 contracts, with some big teams and had also managed and therefore negotiated contracts with other drivers. I know what he's saying to be fact.
This is the difference between a pundit and a presenter. Yet again Sky have labelled her as a font of all knowledge with regards to F1 which she blatantly isn't. She's great as a presenter, but not as a pundit.
Either way, I now record all the sessions so I can just fast forward through all her pieces.
Oh on forgot, you're the expert criticising her. Got it.
Can't we just rename this thread "sad middle aged men hate black women intruding on their macho sport" and move on
sociopath said:
Can't we just rename this thread "sad middle aged men hate black women intruding on their macho sport" and move on
I don't think that's fair. I don't believe (most of) the negative reactions are based on race or sex, but you are probably right with the "sad middle aged men" bit, some people don't like change or have fairly rigid opinions about how things should be done.The problem F1 has is it needs to widen it's appeal beyond the traditional fan base. Ideally that would come from having women and more non-white drivers to add some diversity, but the problem is they are not coming through just yet. So they are left with the option of carrying on as they have been for the last 70 years, or looking at other ways to generate appeal. Hence the more diverse presenting line up. Hopefully in turn that will encourage more people to get into the sport and slowly turn things around.
Is she as qualified to talk about F1 as someone like Brundle, Jenson or Nico? Obviously not. But saying she should shut up and get back in her box is not what the sport needs in order to remain relevant. I like her. She's at ease in front of the camera, and given a bit more time I think will settle and find her natural place in the presenting line up and discussions.
There is a Black, Chinese, Thai, Mexican and Japanese driver on the grid, that's quite a diverse lineup ethnically already. Add in you also have Scandinavian, Australian, American, British, Dutch, Spanish and French and you have most of the world areas represented. We used to have Russian.
Zetec-S said:
sociopath said:
Can't we just rename this thread "sad middle aged men hate black women intruding on their macho sport" and move on
I don't think that's fair. I don't believe (most of) the negative reactions are based on race or sex, but you are probably right with the "sad middle aged men" bit, some people don't like change or have fairly rigid opinions about how things should be done.The problem F1 has is it needs to widen it's appeal beyond the traditional fan base. Ideally that would come from having women and more non-white drivers to add some diversity, but the problem is they are not coming through just yet. So they are left with the option of carrying on as they have been for the last 70 years, or looking at other ways to generate appeal. Hence the more diverse presenting line up. Hopefully in turn that will encourage more people to get into the sport and slowly turn things around.
Is she as qualified to talk about F1 as someone like Brundle, Jenson or Nico? Obviously not. But saying she should shut up and get back in her box is not what the sport needs in order to remain relevant. I like her. She's at ease in front of the camera, and given a bit more time I think will settle and find her natural place in the presenting line up and discussions.
If she’d have got anywhere near F1 i would have no issue! When the highlight of your career is winning the Chinese clio cup your not qualified to be a pundit!
You might have noticed i commented on her presenter skills… keep her asking the questions and not answering them or overspeaking the actual experts!
super7 said:
Zetec-S said:
sociopath said:
Can't we just rename this thread "sad middle aged men hate black women intruding on their macho sport" and move on
I don't think that's fair. I don't believe (most of) the negative reactions are based on race or sex, but you are probably right with the "sad middle aged men" bit, some people don't like change or have fairly rigid opinions about how things should be done.The problem F1 has is it needs to widen it's appeal beyond the traditional fan base. Ideally that would come from having women and more non-white drivers to add some diversity, but the problem is they are not coming through just yet. So they are left with the option of carrying on as they have been for the last 70 years, or looking at other ways to generate appeal. Hence the more diverse presenting line up. Hopefully in turn that will encourage more people to get into the sport and slowly turn things around.
Is she as qualified to talk about F1 as someone like Brundle, Jenson or Nico? Obviously not. But saying she should shut up and get back in her box is not what the sport needs in order to remain relevant. I like her. She's at ease in front of the camera, and given a bit more time I think will settle and find her natural place in the presenting line up and discussions.
If she’d have got anywhere near F1 i would have no issue! When the highlight of your career is winning the Chinese clio cup your not qualified to be a pundit!
You might have noticed i commented on her presenter skills… keep her asking the questions and not answering them or overspeaking the actual experts!
I see people on here commentating how well dressed she looks.
I am not saying my wife is a fashion guru, but she has a real chortle at some of her outfits which definately look odd.
And why does she preface most of her conversations with 'Look' ? She never has anything to actually show us, just repeats what others have said, swapping the occasional sentence construction.
Just let Rachel get on with it please.
I am not saying my wife is a fashion guru, but she has a real chortle at some of her outfits which definately look odd.
And why does she preface most of her conversations with 'Look' ? She never has anything to actually show us, just repeats what others have said, swapping the occasional sentence construction.
Just let Rachel get on with it please.
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