Official 2022 Canadian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

[Adrian W]

C70R said:

Adrian W said:

NRS said:

Derec, I agree, but Sainz wasn't even close enough to pull a move unless it was just a throw it up the inside and Max has to bail to avoid a crash (resulting in a penalty at best for Sainz).

when he was, it was obvious how much faster the Redbull was on the straights, the speed advantage completely eradicated the Ferrari push to pass.

Commentary said that Carlos was 21kph faster than Max on the straight with DRS. Max was hooking up the last corner better, and deploying battery under acceleration to create a gap.

I heard them say that, but you could see that it could not be correct, with the Ferrari right behind, the Redbull was pulling away, if the Ferrari was that much faster he would have passed. Maybe it was 21kph faster when there wasn't a car in front of it.

[anonymous-user]

Adrian W said:

I heard them say that, but you could see that it could not be correct, with the Ferrari right behind, the Redbull was pulling away, if the Ferrari was that much faster he would have passed. Maybe it was 21kph faster when there wasn't a car in front of it.

The Red Bull was not pulling away, it was losing slightly, but not enough.

Sainz needed to be 0.5s behind Max at the exit of the hairpin traction zone, to make a DRS pass stick, he never managed it, his best was 0.6s at the apex and then he would lose at least 0.2s in traction, so never got within 0.7s by the time the lower drag of DRS started to work. He usually gained 0.3s of that deficit by the end of the straight, simply not enough.

It was the corner exit traction and using the energy deployment from the battery once out of the low traction zone that gave Max the win.

[Nova Gyna]

Adrian W said:

C70R said:

Adrian W said:

NRS said:

Derec, I agree, but Sainz wasn't even close enough to pull a move unless it was just a throw it up the inside and Max has to bail to avoid a crash (resulting in a penalty at best for Sainz).

when he was, it was obvious how much faster the Redbull was on the straights, the speed advantage completely eradicated the Ferrari push to pass.

Commentary said that Carlos was 21kph faster than Max on the straight with DRS. Max was hooking up the last corner better, and deploying battery under acceleration to create a gap.

I heard them say that, but you could see that it could not be correct, with the Ferrari right behind, the Redbull was pulling away, if the Ferrari was that much faster he would have passed. Maybe it was 21kph faster when there wasn't a car in front of it.

In one of the post-race interviews, Carlos said that there was a considerable tail wind down the straight that effectively negated his DRS.

Whether that's true, or he's just trying to cover his own arse, I have no idea.

[RemarkLima]

jsf said:

Adrian W said:

I heard them say that, but you could see that it could not be correct, with the Ferrari right behind, the Redbull was pulling away, if the Ferrari was that much faster he would have passed. Maybe it was 21kph faster when there wasn't a car in front of it.

The Red Bull was not pulling away, it was losing slightly, but not enough.

Sainz needed to be 0.5s behind Max at the exit of the hairpin traction zone, to make a DRS pass stick, he never managed it, his best was 0.6s at the apex and then he would lose at least 0.2s in traction, so never got within 0.7s by the time the lower drag of DRS started to work. He usually gained 0.3s of that deficit by the end of the straight, simply not enough.

It was the corner exit traction and using the energy deployment from the battery once out of the low traction zone that gave Max the win.

One thing from that hairpin that I'm not sure would hold true, but there was always a thinking that unless you need to defend, going deeper and making a tighter turn and hitting a later apex would be quicker on the subsequent straight... Like discussed here:

https://forum.sector3studios.com/index.php?threads...

So, Sainz could have got on the gas earlier, and had a longer run... I'm guessing it's not quicker, otherwise they'd all be doing it - or as they hitting v-max it doesn't matter about the extra time accelerating?

[HustleRussell]

Nova Gyna said:

In one of the post-race interviews, Carlos said that there was a considerable tail wind down the straight that effectively negated his DRS.

Whether that's true, or he's just trying to cover his own arse, I have no idea.

I don't think any arse covering is necessary, Carlos pushed Verstappen all the way in a race which we all expected Verstappen to run away with uncontested.

I think it's a strong performance by Carlos. Leclerc was unlucky with the PU penalty and the traffic but it was also clear that his setup wasn't working as well, with very poor traction.

[anonymous-user]

RemarkLima said:

One thing from that hairpin that I'm not sure would hold true, but there was always a thinking that unless you need to defend, going deeper and making a tighter turn and hitting a later apex would be quicker on the subsequent straight... Like discussed here:

https://forum.sector3studios.com/index.php?threads...

So, Sainz could have got on the gas earlier, and had a longer run... I'm guessing it's not quicker, otherwise they'd all be doing it - or as they hitting v-max it doesn't matter about the extra time accelerating?

You would lose more time than you gained. You only try that kind of thing when opening up a new lap, such as exiting onto the straight to start a qualy lap from the last corner. I used to do that on the old Silverstone GP start line when going for a fast lap where the previous lap time was irrelevant or abandoned, you can use a much straighter run into the start of the lap and carry more speed as a result. It would lose you time on the previous lap, so no good in a race.

[Byker28i]

HustleRussell said:

Nova Gyna said:

In one of the post-race interviews, Carlos said that there was a considerable tail wind down the straight that effectively negated his DRS.

Whether that's true, or he's just trying to cover his own arse, I have no idea.

I don't think any arse covering is necessary, Carlos pushed Verstappen all the way in a race which we all expected Verstappen to run away with uncontested.

I think it's a strong performance by Carlos. Leclerc was unlucky with the PU penalty and the traffic but it was also clear that his setup wasn't working as well, with very poor traction.

Or you could say that Leclerc took the PU penalty which put him at the back yet managed to finish well in the points...
I think that was a bonus

[RemarkLima]

jsf said:

RemarkLima said:

One thing from that hairpin that I'm not sure would hold true, but there was always a thinking that unless you need to defend, going deeper and making a tighter turn and hitting a later apex would be quicker on the subsequent straight... Like discussed here:

https://forum.sector3studios.com/index.php?threads...

So, Sainz could have got on the gas earlier, and had a longer run... I'm guessing it's not quicker, otherwise they'd all be doing it - or as they hitting v-max it doesn't matter about the extra time accelerating?

You would lose more time than you gained. You only try that kind of thing when opening up a new lap, such as exiting onto the straight to start a qualy lap from the last corner. I used to do that on the old Silverstone GP start line when going for a fast lap where the previous lap time was irrelevant or abandoned, you can use a much straighter run into the start of the lap and carry more speed as a result. It would lose you time on the previous lap, so no good in a race.

Makes sense - but surely absolute lap time wouldn't matter as much here, other than getting that top end speed, so use 50% of your deployment approaching the hairpin to minimise the loss, go in deep for a late apex and use the rest of your deployment energy on the straight and with the DRS? Surely worth a go rather than hoping Verstappen makes a mistake or his tyre die quicker than yours?

[HustleRussell]

RemarkLima said:

jsf said:

RemarkLima said:

One thing from that hairpin that I'm not sure would hold true, but there was always a thinking that unless you need to defend, going deeper and making a tighter turn and hitting a later apex would be quicker on the subsequent straight... Like discussed here:

https://forum.sector3studios.com/index.php?threads...

So, Sainz could have got on the gas earlier, and had a longer run... I'm guessing it's not quicker, otherwise they'd all be doing it - or as they hitting v-max it doesn't matter about the extra time accelerating?

You would lose more time than you gained. You only try that kind of thing when opening up a new lap, such as exiting onto the straight to start a qualy lap from the last corner. I used to do that on the old Silverstone GP start line when going for a fast lap where the previous lap time was irrelevant or abandoned, you can use a much straighter run into the start of the lap and carry more speed as a result. It would lose you time on the previous lap, so no good in a race.

Makes sense - but surely absolute lap time wouldn't matter as much here, other than getting that top end speed, so use 50% of your deployment approaching the hairpin to minimise the loss, go in deep for a late apex and use the rest of your deployment energy on the straight and with the DRS? Surely worth a go rather than hoping Verstappen makes a mistake or his tyre die quicker than yours?

I think we have to trust that the driver and team were doing all they can to create an opportunity to pass but the Red Bull was just too fast in a straight line whatever they did. It was going to take a mistake or some tyre degradation affecting Verstappen but neither were forthcoming before the 70 laps were up.

ETA: By the way, the diagram at the link showing the late apex for hairpins was the line I used to try to use. In my head it was the textbook approach to a hairpin corner, assuming it was followed by a long straight. however in reality there seem to be very few hairpins where that line is advantageous. For some reason, the prevailing line at hairpins is far more symmetrical than that. It's worth remembering that the available grip isn't uniform across the full width of the circuit and the prevailing line will get faster and faster as it rubbers in.

Edited by HustleRussell on Monday 20th June 13:49

[SmoothCriminal]

Sainz is the Bottas of Ferrari there was zero chance of him overtaking Max no matter how much Croft bleats on he doesn't have the killer instinct.

Also all the hype before the GP about Alonso and diving down the inside he was no where at the start, the slowest off the line of the top 5 now I see the excuses have started to defend him, first strategy and now mechanical.

[Sandpit Steve]

Byker28i said:

Or you could say that Leclerc took the PU penalty which put him at the back yet managed to finish well in the points...
I think that was a bonus

Charles finished exactly where most of us predicted he would - actually one place higher, because Perez dropped out.

A good day’s work from the back row, managed to play the strategy well and get the overtakes done. An exercise in damage limitation, and not for the last time this season.

[Nova Gyna]

HustleRussell said:

Nova Gyna said:

In one of the post-race interviews, Carlos said that there was a considerable tail wind down the straight that effectively negated his DRS.

Whether that's true, or he's just trying to cover his own arse, I have no idea.

I don't think any arse covering is necessary, Carlos pushed Verstappen all the way in a race which we all expected Verstappen to run away with uncontested.

I think it's a strong performance by Carlos. Leclerc was unlucky with the PU penalty and the traffic but it was also clear that his setup wasn't working as well, with very poor traction.

Yep, credit where it's due. He had a good Sunday and gave Max something to think about while keeping us entertained until the end.

Although maybe not quite as exciting as Crofty would have us believe lol..

[Derek Smith]

Little Pete said:

tertius said:

NRS said:

Derec, I agree, but Sainz wasn't even close enough to pull a move unless it was just a throw it up the inside and Max has to bail to avoid a crash (resulting in a penalty at best for Sainz).

Merc was the usual best of the rest.

LoL.

LOL from me too!

Some of us are not quite so easily amused.

(Why is their no smiley for flouncing off in a huff?)

[emicen]

Derek Smith said:

Some of us are not quite so easily amused.

(Why is their no smiley for flouncing off in a huff?)

There is always…

[emicen]

RemarkLima said:

Makes sense - but surely absolute lap time wouldn't matter as much here, other than getting that top end speed, so use 50% of your deployment approaching the hairpin to minimise the loss, go in deep for a late apex and use the rest of your deployment energy on the straight and with the DRS? Surely worth a go rather than hoping Verstappen makes a mistake or his tyre die quicker than yours?

He would have needed to magic up enough deployment to effectively get along side on the brakes forcing Verstappen defensive.

He could then possibly run deep, square it off and use whatever remaining deployment he had left to try and get the pass done on DRS.

Except; his traction out the corner still wouldn’t be as good as Max’s, he would have used a lot of deployment already and Max could still counter with everything in his battery, he would have an even more challenging rapid rotation transitioning in to getting the power hard down.

I think Sainz did all he could really, save flinging a motocross style block pass down the inside from 50 yards back.

[Adrian W]

SmoothCriminal said:

Sainz is the Bottas of Ferrari there was zero chance of him overtaking Max no matter how much Croft bleats on he doesn't have the killer instinct.

Also all the hype before the GP about Alonso and diving down the inside he was no where at the start, the slowest off the line of the top 5 now I see the excuses have started to defend him, first strategy and now mechanical.

The lights went out very quickly, possibly the quickest I have ever seen, I would imagine several drivers got caught out.............................and a useless commentator

[number2]

Adrian W said:

SmoothCriminal said:

Sainz is the Bottas of Ferrari there was zero chance of him overtaking Max no matter how much Croft bleats on he doesn't have the killer instinct.

Also all the hype before the GP about Alonso and diving down the inside he was no where at the start, the slowest off the line of the top 5 now I see the excuses have started to defend him, first strategy and now mechanical.

The lights went out very quickly, possibly the quickest I have ever seen, I would imagine several drivers got caught out.............................and a useless commentator

Viewing on SKY, the director didn't even have time to get the camera on the lights before they went out - or so it seemed to me!

[MustangGT]

ddom said:

The sport is, and never will be clean A spectacle, absolutely but let’s not get carried away.

You do know that they aim to be carbon-neutral in F1 very soon?

What about football? The world cup every 4 years emits more CO2 than 4 seasons of F1.

[paulrockliffe]

Adrian W said:

SmoothCriminal said:

Sainz is the Bottas of Ferrari there was zero chance of him overtaking Max no matter how much Croft bleats on he doesn't have the killer instinct.

Also all the hype before the GP about Alonso and diving down the inside he was no where at the start, the slowest off the line of the top 5 now I see the excuses have started to defend him, first strategy and now mechanical.

The lights went out very quickly, possibly the quickest I have ever seen, I would imagine several drivers got caught out.............................and a useless commentator

They showed the reaction times; .35s for Verstappen, .37s for Alonso, so no meaningful difference due to the light timing.

[anonymous-user]

RemarkLima said:

Makes sense - but surely absolute lap time wouldn't matter as much here, other than getting that top end speed, so use 50% of your deployment approaching the hairpin to minimise the loss, go in deep for a late apex and use the rest of your deployment energy on the straight and with the DRS? Surely worth a go rather than hoping Verstappen makes a mistake or his tyre die quicker than yours?

Sainz used the fastest method.