Masi gone from F1

[Muzzer79]

jm doc said:

You're asking for speculation, I'm stating the facts as it happened. That's why it should have been investigated with a view to a criminal prosecution.

You're asking me to speculate, why don't you as to why he made a decision about ending the safety car, only to overturn it when asked, despite being warned that it was against the rules. Based on what actually happened of course, not just on fantasy "maybe he was tired", maybe he "thought it had to end under a green flag" (there were plenty of legal options for that), maybe he was "overstressed by all the radio calls and confused" (despite being told directly he was breaking the rules), "out of his depth" (but not deep enough to make a deliberate call to ignore the rules). There's no actual evidence to support any of that.

The one FACT we actually have is he was asked directly to ignore the rules and he changed his decision to do that. He engineered a result. That's evidence of corruption/collusion in the absence of a remotely explicable reason, and should be investigate independently as such, if only to clear his name if he really is so innocent..

I honestly believe you cannot be so naive as not to see that and therefore suspect you are now just trolling.

Lets leave it at that.

Spoken like a true conspiracy theorist - put forward a theory without foundation, refuse to "speculate" and reject challenging of it as 'trolling'

I have no idea why Masi did what he did.

But I am not the one putting forward a theory that he was corrupt without foundation, other than the fact that his error benefitted one party in the race.

In 1986, a Tunisian referee in the World Cup awarded a goal for Argentina against England that was clearly handball. Everyone saw it. Maradonna later confessed to it being handball. The referee knew the rules, as did the linesman.
Why did he award that goal? Because he made a gigantic error.

that referee is not accused of fraud however, because the fact that it was such an obvious error is not evidence of corruption.

Indeed; best to leave it there.

[angrymoby]

jm doc said:

It's up to you and others defending Masi and RB to prove that there wasn't coercion/conspiracy/corruption. You don't seem to be able to get your heads around the facts, he did what he was asked to do by Horner.

the only 'evidence' you have for the above is for 'coercion' via the comms that everyone heard ...everything else is speculation & thus the onus is on the accuser to provide proof, not the other way around

unfortunately there is also evidence of 'coercion' from Wolff & Merc- & i put my house on Masi doing what they asked at certain points during 2021 too ...both teams were as bad as each other for it- that's not defending Masi or RB, it's just stating simple truth

[Siao]

The fact that we now have two (experienced) RDs, and we are still talking about cock ups pretty much every weekend this season, goes to show how difficult that position is. Charlie made mistakes, Masi made mistakes, Wittich and Freitas are making mistakes.

Masi's cock up cost a WDC, that's the biggest difference in my view. The biggest fault was allowing everyone around the RD to talk to them during the race and allow them to apply pressure.

[angrymoby]

Siao said:

The biggest fault was allowing everyone around the RD to talk to them during the race and allow them to apply pressure.

you say that in way like it wasn't Masi's own fault

all he had to do was ignore the flashing light & not press the comms button if he didn't want to be distracted or be subjected to pressure

[Siao]

angrymoby said:

Siao said:

The biggest fault was allowing everyone around the RD to talk to them during the race and allow them to apply pressure.

you say that in way like it wasn't Masi's own fault

all he had to do was ignore the flashing light & not press the comms button if he didn't want to be distracted or be subjected to pressure

Is that how it works? Do you know that? Can he select which calls to take?

And after stating twice in my post that Masi made mistakes, you still somehow understood that "you say that in way like it wasn't Masi's own fault"?

[Pflanzgarten]

paulguitar said:

Pflanzgarten said:

Muzzer79 said:

What was in it for him?

Immortality. His decision broadcast in the greatest season finale in arguably the greatest season ever.

Well, that didn't go too well for him...

It didn’t, but that was what he wanted and the results are what he’s got. In the politest manner, he’s an absolute twit.

[Muzzer79]

angrymoby said:

jm doc said:

It's up to you and others defending Masi and RB to prove that there wasn't coercion/conspiracy/corruption. You don't seem to be able to get your heads around the facts, he did what he was asked to do by Horner.

the only 'evidence' you have for the above is for 'coercion' via the comms that everyone heard ...everything else is speculation & thus the onus is on the accuser to provide proof, not the other way around

Exactly.

There is also the still unanswered question - if Masi's goal was for Red Bull to win the title, why not penalise Hamilton in the first laps when he went off track defending from Verstappen?

It would have been far less blatant and Masi would probably still be in his job.

[angrymoby]

Siao said:

Is that how it works? Do you know that? Can he select which calls to take?

https://www.fia.com/news/cyber-stewarding

certainly looks that way doesn't it? ...how do you think it works?

Siao said:

And after stating twice in my post that Masi made mistakes, you still somehow understood that "you say that in way like it wasn't Masi's own fault"?

"The biggest fault was allowing everyone around the RD to talk to them during the race"

i understood it exactly as how you've written it ...i.e who is doing the 'allowing' it can't be the RD as youd mentioned them- if you wanted the RD to take sole responsibility you'd have written it that way



question: if you got a call whilst driving & subsequently got fined for using your mobile ...who's fault would it be & who would be paying the fine?

Edited by angrymoby on Friday 15th July 13:33

[Siao]

angrymoby said:

Siao said:

Is that how it works? Do you know that? Can he select which calls to take?

https://www.fia.com/news/cyber-stewarding

certainly looks that way doesn't it? ...how do you think it works?

I don't know, it was a genuine question. The article doesn't really mention anything about them selectively answering communications from the teams, unless I missed it somewhere.

angrymoby said:

Siao said:

And after stating twice in my post that Masi made mistakes, you still somehow understood that "you say that in way like it wasn't Masi's own fault"?

"The biggest fault was allowing everyone around the RD to talk to them during the race"

i understood it exactly as how you've written it ...i.e who is doing the 'allowing' it can't be the RD as youd mentioned them- if you wanted the RD to take sole responsibility you'd have written it that way

question: if you got a call whilst driving & subsequently got fined for using your mobile ...who's fault would it be & who would be paying the fine?

The "allowing" was done from the regs, the regulations allowed for it, or if you prefer they didn't prohibit it; now they have stopped the teams having direct radio communication at all times with the race director. The fact that they had to stop it this year says a lot. I didn't write that sentence to mean anything sinister, you seem to have read it that way. So, two separate things, regs and RD.

Your question is completely irrelevant.

[HustleRussell]

IMO Masi was improperly exposed to an array of conflicting forces which made his job frankly impossible. Inevitably, he finally made a gaffe which was sufficiently serious and public that it was terminal for his position.

[Mr Pointy]

Siao said:

Is that how it works? Do you know that? Can he select which calls to take?

Yes. it's A Riedel comms system very commonly used in the broadcast world.

[PhilAsia]

Siao said:

.

Your question is completely irrelevant.

The question is completely relevant.

If you are a professional and are approaching a set of green traffic lights, you do not suddenly forget everything because there are people loudly and animatedly trying to distract you. You still know what to do and how to cope with every scenario.

Your professionalism kicks in!

[Siao]

Mr Pointy said:

Siao said:

Is that how it works? Do you know that? Can he select which calls to take?

Yes. it's A Riedel comms system very commonly used in the broadcast world.

Ok, thank you. I wonder why did they have to ban the comms then, if the RD can just ignore them?

[jm doc]

angrymoby said:

jm doc said:

It's up to you and others defending Masi and RB to prove that there wasn't coercion/conspiracy/corruption. You don't seem to be able to get your heads around the facts, he did what he was asked to do by Horner.

the only 'evidence' you have for the above is for 'coercion' via the comms that everyone heard ...everything else is speculation & thus the onus is on the accuser to provide proof, not the other way around

unfortunately there is also evidence of 'coercion' from Wolff & Merc- & i put my house on Masi doing what they asked at certain points during 2021 too ...both teams were as bad as each other for it- that's not defending Masi or RB, it's just stating simple truth

So many apologists for Masi. Embarrassing.

He put his hand in the till, was told to stop but took the money. He must have been confused, under pressure, people telling him take the money, don't take the money. It's so difficult to know what to do in that position isn't it. And where's the evidence?
Missing money? Missing title?

Yes poor old Michael Masi, he'd never do anything wrong deliberately.

Except we all saw and heard him do exactly that.

[Siao]

PhilAsia said:

Siao said:

.

Your question is completely irrelevant.

The question is completely relevant.

If you are a professional and are approaching a set of green traffic lights, you do not suddenly forget everything because there are people loudly and animatedly trying to distract you. You still know what to do and how to cope with every scenario.

Your professionalism kicks in!

The RD is not required by law NOT to answer calls.

[PhilAsia]

HustleRussell said:

IMO Masi was improperly exposed to an array of conflicting forces which made his job frankly impossible. Inevitably, he finally made a gaffe which was sufficiently serious and public that it was terminal for his position.

I understand what you are saying, but he was not Entertainment Director. He was RACE Director and in that position he is required to follow the rules that he had previously defended - that is all.

[PhilAsia]

Siao said:

PhilAsia said:

Siao said:

.

Your question is completely irrelevant.

The question is completely relevant.

If you are a professional and are approaching a set of green traffic lights, you do not suddenly forget everything because there are people loudly and animatedly trying to distract you. You still know what to do and how to cope with every scenario.

Your professionalism kicks in!

The RD is not required by law NOT to answer calls.

He is purely required to direct the race...

[Siao]

PhilAsia said:

Siao said:

PhilAsia said:

Siao said:

.

Your question is completely irrelevant.

The question is completely relevant.

If you are a professional and are approaching a set of green traffic lights, you do not suddenly forget everything because there are people loudly and animatedly trying to distract you. You still know what to do and how to cope with every scenario.

Your professionalism kicks in!

The RD is not required by law NOT to answer calls.

He is purely required to direct the race...

Yes, yes, you've used this image a lot, I know it by heart.

I'll probably have to direct you and anyone else thinking that I'm a "Masi Apologist" to my post saying that he made mistakes. He obviously did, this was never the question, so get over it now please, Masi f*cked it up.

The whole point of my post was that being RD is a tough one. Repeatedly proved to be and still is this season even with all the new measures introduced last year and having two of them, with experience. Just that.

[kimducati]

Muzzer79 said:

There is also the still unanswered question - if Masi's goal was for Red Bull to win the title, why not penalise Hamilton in the first laps when he went off track defending from Verstappen?

IF that was his goal (I'm not saying it was, necessarily) a 'correction' in the first few laps would give LH the entire race to get it back again, whereas IF you engineer a far from equal last lap shoot out..........................................................
Job jobbed - quite literally
Kim

[HustleRussell]

PhilAsia said:

HustleRussell said:

IMO Masi was improperly exposed to an array of conflicting forces which made his job frankly impossible. Inevitably, he finally made a gaffe which was sufficiently serious and public that it was terminal for his position.

I understand what you are saying, but he was not Entertainment Director. He was RACE Director and in that position he is required to follow the rules that he had previously defended - that is all.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just acknowledging that human error is a thing, and that he was overexposed in his role by the governance structure and also by his own inexperience.