Official 2022 Hungarian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Poll: Official 2022 Hungarian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Total Members Polled: 158
Discussion
Deesee said:
Very good! A lucid explanation of how strategy 'should' work. Drivers, engineers and strategists all having a roughly equal input.Of course, it's easier for the team that won the strategy at the weekend to do that interview, but I'd like to see Ferrari come out and explain their side of things
Aids0G said:
jm doc said:
Aids0G said:
Also Perez, just seems to have fallen away I know the car just isn't to his liking now and he can be quick on his day, but do Red Bull need to try and secure Lando asap? Can Lando deal with the RB and be on or within a tenth of Max's pace?
It's pathetic and laughable, and the lack of honesty sums up RB and many of their fans
And remarkably similar to their excuses for the poor misunderstood Michael Masi
I am huge Hamilton fan and always have been, however I also post about other teams so I am sorry if that in your eyes immediately brackets me as pathetic and laughable.
On the quoted point, Perez performed better with the less developed RB18 and is now not quite as happy with it, if he's going slower than Max on track on a different strategy then RB have all the justification they need to ask him to move.
Stop being so partisan, aggressive and unpleasant it does not help these threads at all.
The fact that others may fall into this narrative despite not being an RB fan suggests a degree of naivety on their part, that's all but feel free to feel offended if it disturbs your cosy view.
But you can be sure there's a hard core of RB fans who continue to push this and other narratives endlessly, just look at the last couple of pages with ludicrous claims about Mercedes which have no basis in actual fact which others endlessly have to correct.
honda_exige said:
HustleRussell said:
RB Will said:
2016 with Rosberg leading the championship, 6 races in at Monaco, he was ordered to let Lewis through, and obliged for the good of the team, vry nearly cost him the championship.
Rosberg was absolutely floundering in that race. There is no argument whatsoever that Mercedes should've allowed him to block Hamilton. rdjohn said:
Of course he has denied it, but it is reasonable to suspect that he has been running a Spa spec floor for the last few races. It would be plain dumb not to and far more plausible than a sudden disinterest in him competing.
That would make quite a lot of sense, has just had another baby tho so not much sleep!!! Would a new floor have to have been declared in the FIA parade thing they are doing this year?
RB Will said:
You guys are hilarious 
I respond to a post that said Merc don’t do the whole team orders but let them race and sort it out thing with a couple of examples of them not doing so.
The poster I replied to acknowledged it, all good. everyone else piles in misunderstanding trying to make me look daft and patting each other on the back all the while confirming my point and adding more evidence to it
there's no trying to make you look daft when you don't seem to understand the difference between a team having no driver status using team orders, i.e displaying instances where they favour each driver on a race by race basis & one that seems to use team orders to just favour one driver regardlessI respond to a post that said Merc don’t do the whole team orders but let them race and sort it out thing with a couple of examples of them not doing so.
The poster I replied to acknowledged it, all good. everyone else piles in misunderstanding trying to make me look daft and patting each other on the back all the while confirming my point and adding more evidence to it
i certainly can't remember Verstappen being told to hold station behind Checo or sacrifice his race to benefit him ...but pretty sure there have been instances of it happening the other way around
& im pretty sure RBR have had drivers leave because they felt they weren't getting or likely to get equal status too
jm doc said:
Aids0G said:
jm doc said:
Aids0G said:
Also Perez, just seems to have fallen away I know the car just isn't to his liking now and he can be quick on his day, but do Red Bull need to try and secure Lando asap? Can Lando deal with the RB and be on or within a tenth of Max's pace?
It's pathetic and laughable, and the lack of honesty sums up RB and many of their fans
And remarkably similar to their excuses for the poor misunderstood Michael Masi
I am huge Hamilton fan and always have been, however I also post about other teams so I am sorry if that in your eyes immediately brackets me as pathetic and laughable.
On the quoted point, Perez performed better with the less developed RB18 and is now not quite as happy with it, if he's going slower than Max on track on a different strategy then RB have all the justification they need to ask him to move.
Stop being so partisan, aggressive and unpleasant it does not help these threads at all.
The fact that others may fall into this narrative despite not being an RB fan suggests a degree of naivety on their part, that's all but feel free to feel offended if it disturbs your cosy view.
But you can be sure there's a hard core of RB fans who continue to push this and other narratives endlessly, just look at the last couple of pages with ludicrous claims about Mercedes which have no basis in actual fact which others endlessly have to correct.
RedBull clearly have a No.2 driver that’s been clear for ever and a day.
Some posters just like to make everything personal, been on this forum long enough to understand that and am a long way from a cosy view, especially a day after the race when it all starts to get a bit handbags, but you seem to enjoy it so crack on!
peter tdci said:
Deesee said:
Very good! A lucid explanation of how strategy 'should' work. Drivers, engineers and strategists all having a roughly equal input.Of course, it's easier for the team that won the strategy at the weekend to do that interview, but I'd like to see Ferrari come out and explain their side of things
A bit late to the party, I had to wade through a lot of name calling and tribalism.
Going back a page or three, someone said it was laughable that Lewis would try obscure set ups to help the team develop the car. Isn't that part of his job though? As any driver would. I'm thinking that is exactly what Michael Schumacher did when he went to Ferrari. And Lauda when he went to McLaren. They both got invested in the development of a not great car and made it a world beater.
I know it's not exactly the same, but I'm sure you see what I mean.
Going back a page or three, someone said it was laughable that Lewis would try obscure set ups to help the team develop the car. Isn't that part of his job though? As any driver would. I'm thinking that is exactly what Michael Schumacher did when he went to Ferrari. And Lauda when he went to McLaren. They both got invested in the development of a not great car and made it a world beater.
I know it's not exactly the same, but I'm sure you see what I mean.
honda_exige said:
HustleRussell said:
RB Will said:
2016 with Rosberg leading the championship, 6 races in at Monaco, he was ordered to let Lewis through, and obliged for the good of the team, vry nearly cost him the championship.
Rosberg was absolutely floundering in that race. There is no argument whatsoever that Mercedes should've allowed him to block Hamilton. NRS said:
honda_exige said:
HustleRussell said:
RB Will said:
2016 with Rosberg leading the championship, 6 races in at Monaco, he was ordered to let Lewis through, and obliged for the good of the team, vry nearly cost him the championship.
Rosberg was absolutely floundering in that race. There is no argument whatsoever that Mercedes should've allowed him to block Hamilton. honda_exige said:
Max took Perez under braking into the chicane, it wasn't a pull over on a straight and let him past kind of deal. There wasn't a radio call, sure Perez didn't put up a fight but hardly unusual.
If he didn't put up a fight, then surely by any definition that's "letting him pass".I don't know why we're debating the minutiae of something so straightforward.
C70R said:
If he didn't put up a fight, then surely by any definition that's "letting him pass".
I don't know why we're debating the minutiae of something so straightforward.
I don't get why people get so worked up about Checo letting him past.I don't know why we're debating the minutiae of something so straightforward.
He's 70 something points behind, and if Ferrari keep imploding he'll secure 2nd in the championship if he keeps the Mercs behind (Which is looking unlikely to be honest!)
It made sense for Mercedes to let Russell and Hamilton race, they'd still get a 2-3 either way. If Lewis or George were leading the championship with the other 70 points behind, I'm pretty sure they'd do the same thing and swap places.
Didn't Stroll let Vettel through during the race? Ferrari were trying to sacrifice Carlos at the restart at Silverstone. Team orders happen in every team and has since the beginning of time.
mw88 said:
C70R said:
If he didn't put up a fight, then surely by any definition that's "letting him pass".
I don't know why we're debating the minutiae of something so straightforward.
I don't get why people get so worked up about Checo letting him past.I don't know why we're debating the minutiae of something so straightforward.
He's 70 something points behind, and if Ferrari keep imploding he'll secure 2nd in the championship if he keeps the Mercs behind (Which is looking unlikely to be honest!)
It made sense for Mercedes to let Russell and Hamilton race, they'd still get a 2-3 either way. If Lewis or George were leading the championship with the other 70 points behind, I'm pretty sure they'd do the same thing and swap places.
Didn't Stroll let Vettel through during the race? Ferrari were trying to sacrifice Carlos at the restart at Silverstone. Team orders happen in every team and has since the beginning of time.
So a team asked their second driver to let the WDC leader pass in a race? Great. That sounds like a very sensible thing to do to me. No idea what the fuss is about.
C70R said:
honda_exige said:
Max took Perez under braking into the chicane, it wasn't a pull over on a straight and let him past kind of deal. There wasn't a radio call, sure Perez didn't put up a fight but hardly unusual.
If he didn't put up a fight, then surely by any definition that's "letting him pass".I don't know why we're debating the minutiae of something so straightforward.
I think Perez has realised that at the moment, Max is so much quicker it's nonsensical to slow each other down.
That's a much more intelligent thing to do then Ferrari calling Sainz in on Mediums for a Pitstop at the same time as all the soft runners so that he's out of the way of Charles, entirely crippling Sainz' race.
honda_exige said:
C70R said:
honda_exige said:
Max took Perez under braking into the chicane, it wasn't a pull over on a straight and let him past kind of deal. There wasn't a radio call, sure Perez didn't put up a fight but hardly unusual.
If he didn't put up a fight, then surely by any definition that's "letting him pass".I don't know why we're debating the minutiae of something so straightforward.
I think Perez has realised that at the moment, Max is so much quicker it's nonsensical to slow each other down.
That's a much more intelligent thing to do then Ferrari calling Sainz in on Mediums for a Pitstop at the same time as all the soft runners so that he's out of the way of Charles, entirely crippling Sainz' race.
C70R said:
mw88 said:
C70R said:
If he didn't put up a fight, then surely by any definition that's "letting him pass".
I don't know why we're debating the minutiae of something so straightforward.
I don't get why people get so worked up about Checo letting him past.I don't know why we're debating the minutiae of something so straightforward.
He's 70 something points behind, and if Ferrari keep imploding he'll secure 2nd in the championship if he keeps the Mercs behind (Which is looking unlikely to be honest!)
It made sense for Mercedes to let Russell and Hamilton race, they'd still get a 2-3 either way. If Lewis or George were leading the championship with the other 70 points behind, I'm pretty sure they'd do the same thing and swap places.
Didn't Stroll let Vettel through during the race? Ferrari were trying to sacrifice Carlos at the restart at Silverstone. Team orders happen in every team and has since the beginning of time.
So a team asked their second driver to let the WDC leader pass in a race? Great. That sounds like a very sensible thing to do to me. No idea what the fuss is about.
Just look at Ferrari this year, there is several times they "should" have done team orders and never did it. Saying RB do more team orders is just a fact, so I'm not sure why some try and say all teams do the same amount. That's doing the same defending against perceived criticism too surely?
I'd say sum things up as:
"Red Bull have a clear number one driver and do team orders from the start of the season, like Ferrari did with Schumacher. Other teams also use team orders, but in general to a lesser extent. This likely costs them more of a chance in the WDC in a close battle."
Some people will then say team orders are sensible to win the WDC, others will say they dislike it and they prefer team/driver x because they allow their drivers to compete more equally. Neither opinion is right or wrong, it just depends what you view as ok.
Road cycling is probably one of the ultimate examples of team orders, where the entire team of cyclists is often set up to help just one cyclist, and the others will have no chance to win unless the main cyclist is out.
honda_exige said:
C70R said:
honda_exige said:
Max took Perez under braking into the chicane, it wasn't a pull over on a straight and let him past kind of deal. There wasn't a radio call, sure Perez didn't put up a fight but hardly unusual.
If he didn't put up a fight, then surely by any definition that's "letting him pass".I don't know why we're debating the minutiae of something so straightforward.
I think Perez has realised that at the moment, Max is so much quicker it's nonsensical to slow each other down.
That's a much more intelligent thing to do then Ferrari calling Sainz in on Mediums for a Pitstop at the same time as all the soft runners so that he's out of the way of Charles, entirely crippling Sainz' race.
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