Official 2022 Hungarian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Poll: Official 2022 Hungarian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Total Members Polled: 158
Discussion
Horner at it again: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/horner-not-one-o...
wpa1975 said:
Horner at it again: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/horner-not-one-o...
Headline doing a lot of heavy lifting in that article.The guy said that last season was like a heavyweight bout and that he'd prefer not to have to go through that again. That's basically it.
wpa1975 said:
Horner at it again: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/horner-not-one-o...
At what?It's a pretty balanced interview. I'd imagine last year took a lot out of the team emotionally to have battled so hard for an entire season. Imagine the impact it had on everyone's private life, not least a team principle with a young family getting death threats.
And that's effectively what he's saying there.
You're looking too hard for hidden meaning that doesn't exist.
wpa1975 said:
Horner at it again: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/horner-not-one-o...
More honest than Lewis saying every year that he wished there was more of a challenge when Mercedes were dominant.TedStriker said:
wpa1975 said:
Horner at it again: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/horner-not-one-o...
More honest than Lewis saying every year that he wished there was more of a challenge when Mercedes were dominant.TedStriker said:
wpa1975 said:
Horner at it again: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/horner-not-one-o...
More honest than Lewis saying every year that he wished there was more of a challenge when Mercedes were dominant.He's an elite sportsman, who's known nothing other than competition in sport his entire adult life.
What would be wrong with saying that he wished there was more competition?
Unless you're just looking for things to read too much into, so that you can score a cheap point?
wpa1975 said:
Horner at it again: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/horner-not-one-o...
Maybe he's happy for an easy win, it's his job to win as much as possible so that wouldn't be unreasonable.Or maybe he's thinking the new TD for floor flex is really going to hurt, so thank god his competitor is basically useless. Although of course, his real competitor looks to be becoming Mercedes based on their current form.
C70R said:
TedStriker said:
wpa1975 said:
Horner at it again: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/horner-not-one-o...
More honest than Lewis saying every year that he wished there was more of a challenge when Mercedes were dominant.He's an elite sportsman, who's known nothing other than competition in sport his entire adult life.
What would be wrong with saying that he wished there was more competition?
Unless you're just looking for things to read too much into, so that you can score a cheap point?
I'll back out now though, this won't go anywhere good
TedStriker said:
C70R said:
TedStriker said:
wpa1975 said:
Horner at it again: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/horner-not-one-o...
More honest than Lewis saying every year that he wished there was more of a challenge when Mercedes were dominant.He's an elite sportsman, who's known nothing other than competition in sport his entire adult life.
What would be wrong with saying that he wished there was more competition?
Unless you're just looking for things to read too much into, so that you can score a cheap point?
I'll back out now though, this won't go anywhere good
There's worse than that out there about Ferrari now 
This wasn't even their most embarrassing weekend of recent times, but it appears to be the final straw in terms of glossing over it all - their fecklessness has now become a major talking point of the 22' season. Even the Tifosi have become restless about what the chuff is happening.
Although binotto has said today that it's not bad luck and there is no reason to change anything they're doing. So all fine then.
This wasn't even their most embarrassing weekend of recent times, but it appears to be the final straw in terms of glossing over it all - their fecklessness has now become a major talking point of the 22' season. Even the Tifosi have become restless about what the chuff is happening.
Although binotto has said today that it's not bad luck and there is no reason to change anything they're doing. So all fine then.
DanielSan said:
Ferrari putting hards on Leclerc!
Niponeoff said:
Hards?....
NRS said:
Hard for Ferrari? Seems like a bad choice.
TheDeuce said:
Ferrari found a way to scupper leclerc, well done team red!
mw88 said:
Ferrari dropping another clanger on strategy?
vulture1 said:
Ahh thats how ferrari will throw it away put the crazy hards on.
jsf said:
Ferrari blown it again?
The thing that always amazes me most about Ferrari is that, on any given Sunday, a bunch of people in armchairs can spot instantly that they’ve laid a solid egg of f*ck, but the most experienced team in F1, with a team who do race strategy for a living at the pinnacle of motorsport, can’t see how bad a decision they’re making.Does anyone have any insight into how they do it, beyond the lazy “they’re Italian” explanation?
HardtopManual said:
DanielSan said:
Ferrari putting hards on Leclerc!
Niponeoff said:
Hards?....
NRS said:
Hard for Ferrari? Seems like a bad choice.
TheDeuce said:
Ferrari found a way to scupper leclerc, well done team red!
mw88 said:
Ferrari dropping another clanger on strategy?
vulture1 said:
Ahh thats how ferrari will throw it away put the crazy hards on.
jsf said:
Ferrari blown it again?
The thing that always amazes me most about Ferrari is that, on any given Sunday, a bunch of people in armchairs can spot instantly that they’ve laid a solid egg of f*ck, but the most experienced team in F1, with a team who do race strategy for a living at the pinnacle of motorsport, can’t see how bad a decision they’re making.Does anyone have any insight into how they do it, beyond the lazy “they’re Italian” explanation?
To answer your question, I would assume there's some conflict in the team about what is right. Also sometimes when things go wrong repeatedly, there is also a desire to take bigger gambles to try and catch up, which if they backfire result in more difficult choices and further screw ups. I'm not just talking about the hard tyre choice, which wasn't really a choice, but what lead upto that situation and the timing.
Binotto saying that 'nothing needs to change' isn't helpful. Obviously others are doing a better job, so at some level in the team things can be improved - telling everyone that it's all fine doesn't inspire individuals in the team to analyse their role in it all.
Impossible to say what exactly is going on from the outside, but plainly something is endemic and 'sub optimal' as Toto would say.
TheDeuce said:
Nice round up.
To answer your question, I would assume there's some conflict in the team about what is right. Also sometimes when things go wrong repeatedly, there is also a desire to take bigger gambles to try and catch up, which if they backfire result in more difficult choices and further screw ups. I'm not just talking about the hard tyre choice, which wasn't really a choice, but what lead upto that situation and the timing.
Binotto saying that 'nothing needs to change' isn't helpful. Obviously others are doing a better job, so at some level in the team things can be improved - telling everyone that it's all fine doesn't inspire individuals in the team to analyse their role in it all.
Impossible to say what exactly is going on from the outside, but plainly something is endemic and 'sub optimal' as Toto would say.
Indeed. It's a bit like the blackjack player in a losing streak who decides to start doubling his stake to win back his losses. Never ends well.To answer your question, I would assume there's some conflict in the team about what is right. Also sometimes when things go wrong repeatedly, there is also a desire to take bigger gambles to try and catch up, which if they backfire result in more difficult choices and further screw ups. I'm not just talking about the hard tyre choice, which wasn't really a choice, but what lead upto that situation and the timing.
Binotto saying that 'nothing needs to change' isn't helpful. Obviously others are doing a better job, so at some level in the team things can be improved - telling everyone that it's all fine doesn't inspire individuals in the team to analyse their role in it all.
Impossible to say what exactly is going on from the outside, but plainly something is endemic and 'sub optimal' as Toto would say.
HardtopManual said:
DanielSan said:
Ferrari putting hards on Leclerc!
Niponeoff said:
Hards?....
NRS said:
Hard for Ferrari? Seems like a bad choice.
TheDeuce said:
Ferrari found a way to scupper leclerc, well done team red!
mw88 said:
Ferrari dropping another clanger on strategy?
vulture1 said:
Ahh thats how ferrari will throw it away put the crazy hards on.
jsf said:
Ferrari blown it again?
The thing that always amazes me most about Ferrari is that, on any given Sunday, a bunch of people in armchairs can spot instantly that they’ve laid a solid egg of f*ck, but the most experienced team in F1, with a team who do race strategy for a living at the pinnacle of motorsport, can’t see how bad a decision they’re making.Does anyone have any insight into how they do it, beyond the lazy “they’re Italian” explanation?
They seem to forget what is best for them and react to the other teams too much. Mercedes has done this, but to a lesser extent. RB often use the tactics of unusual pit stop timings if they are struggling (relatively) against another team. It means they have 2 benefits - if they are out of sync and a safety car happens they might be able to jump the team ahead. The second however is that often the other team reacts to counter RB and messes up their own tactics, giving RB a far better chance. This is one of the situations where Ferrari seem to make a lot of mistakes, as they react to the other team even if on a different strategy, ending up in the worst of both worlds.
NRS said:
I was one of those quoted about hards being a bad choice. Looking back, I'm not 100% sure they had much other option. The issue was earlier where they pitted early on the mediums to counter Russell, whereas they should have run their own race. The other issue was once going to hards they they abandoned that to then go to soft too.
They seem to forget what is best for them and react to the other teams too much. Mercedes has done this, but to a lesser extent. RB often use the tactics of unusual pit stop timings if they are struggling (relatively) against another team. It means they have 2 benefits - if they are out of sync and a safety car happens they might be able to jump the team ahead. The second however is that often the other team reacts to counter RB and messes up their own tactics, giving RB a far better chance. This is one of the situations where Ferrari seem to make a lot of mistakes, as they react to the other team even if on a different strategy, ending up in the worst of both worlds.
Exactly. They pitted one of their cars waaaaay too early and then proceeded to do the same with the other car. It was like they were covering off something they just didn't need to cover off. Red Bull playing brilliant F1 Poker with a losing hand but bluffing Ferrari into folding. Twice!! At the very least you would have split the strategies.They seem to forget what is best for them and react to the other teams too much. Mercedes has done this, but to a lesser extent. RB often use the tactics of unusual pit stop timings if they are struggling (relatively) against another team. It means they have 2 benefits - if they are out of sync and a safety car happens they might be able to jump the team ahead. The second however is that often the other team reacts to counter RB and messes up their own tactics, giving RB a far better chance. This is one of the situations where Ferrari seem to make a lot of mistakes, as they react to the other team even if on a different strategy, ending up in the worst of both worlds.
eps said:
NRS said:
I was one of those quoted about hards being a bad choice. Looking back, I'm not 100% sure they had much other option. The issue was earlier where they pitted early on the mediums to counter Russell, whereas they should have run their own race. The other issue was once going to hards they they abandoned that to then go to soft too.
They seem to forget what is best for them and react to the other teams too much. Mercedes has done this, but to a lesser extent. RB often use the tactics of unusual pit stop timings if they are struggling (relatively) against another team. It means they have 2 benefits - if they are out of sync and a safety car happens they might be able to jump the team ahead. The second however is that often the other team reacts to counter RB and messes up their own tactics, giving RB a far better chance. This is one of the situations where Ferrari seem to make a lot of mistakes, as they react to the other team even if on a different strategy, ending up in the worst of both worlds.
Exactly. They pitted one of their cars waaaaay too early and then proceeded to do the same with the other car. It was like they were covering off something they just didn't need to cover off. Red Bull playing brilliant F1 Poker with a losing hand but bluffing Ferrari into folding. Twice!! At the very least you would have split the strategies.They seem to forget what is best for them and react to the other teams too much. Mercedes has done this, but to a lesser extent. RB often use the tactics of unusual pit stop timings if they are struggling (relatively) against another team. It means they have 2 benefits - if they are out of sync and a safety car happens they might be able to jump the team ahead. The second however is that often the other team reacts to counter RB and messes up their own tactics, giving RB a far better chance. This is one of the situations where Ferrari seem to make a lot of mistakes, as they react to the other team even if on a different strategy, ending up in the worst of both worlds.
I'd agree with the above, it was the weirdly short Medium stint at the start, which I'm assuming was cut short as a reaction to RB pitting, which basically scuppered them.
They exacerbated that situation by then pitting Charles again with another unnecessarily short medium stint, again reacting to others pitting, and at that point it was too early to run the soft to the end, so they 'had' to go on to the hard.
It does feel like they make their strategy decisions based on other teams, it could be as simple as a lack of confidence in their own decision making (surely not?
) which then means when one of the strategically 'good' teams makes a decision, Ferrari panic thinking they've missed something or got the strategy wrong, and then try to react and match the other team, ultimately making a mess of their own race, time and time again.
I think Binotto is in a tough position here as the strategy team are going to be under a lot of pressure, and are going to be well aware they've gotten it wrong repeatedly. They're going to have no confidence in their own abilities, and that's going to lead to even weaker decisions.
His options are either tell them they're s
t and must do better, fire a few people and generally shout (the old Ferrari / Stroll method presumably), tell them they're doing great and try to excuse the mistakes to try and help build their confidence (his current approach it seems), or some sort of elusive 'middle ground' that could almost be described as good management
They exacerbated that situation by then pitting Charles again with another unnecessarily short medium stint, again reacting to others pitting, and at that point it was too early to run the soft to the end, so they 'had' to go on to the hard.
It does feel like they make their strategy decisions based on other teams, it could be as simple as a lack of confidence in their own decision making (surely not?
) which then means when one of the strategically 'good' teams makes a decision, Ferrari panic thinking they've missed something or got the strategy wrong, and then try to react and match the other team, ultimately making a mess of their own race, time and time again.I think Binotto is in a tough position here as the strategy team are going to be under a lot of pressure, and are going to be well aware they've gotten it wrong repeatedly. They're going to have no confidence in their own abilities, and that's going to lead to even weaker decisions.
His options are either tell them they're s
t and must do better, fire a few people and generally shout (the old Ferrari / Stroll method presumably), tell them they're doing great and try to excuse the mistakes to try and help build their confidence (his current approach it seems), or some sort of elusive 'middle ground' that could almost be described as good management Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff