Official 2022 Italian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

[C70R]

paulguitar said:

C70R said:

Sky commentators spent most of the immediate aftermath talking about the disappointment of the safety car finish, rather than how incredible the win was.

Edited by C70R on Monday 12th September 11:31

I'm not sure the win was 'incredible'. It was widely predicted before the start and what we saw was what everyone expected.

It can be predicted and incredible at the same time. That car/driver combination is as dominant as anything we've seen in recent years.

While it doesn't make for the kind of spectacle we'd get from a close title battle, that doesn't make that dominance any less incredible.

[kambites]

C70R said:

It can be predicted and incredible at the same time. That car/driver combination is as dominant as anything we've seen in recent years.

Indeed. We've basically seeing a carbon copy of the more dominant periods of the Hamilton years - everyone knew Hamilton was going to win most of the races even if he didn't start at the front because he had the best car and was a better driver than his teammate, but that didn't make it any less impressive what both the team and the driver were/are achieving.

[paulguitar]

C70R said:

It can be predicted and incredible at the same time. That car/driver combination is as dominant as anything we've seen in recent years.

While it doesn't make for the kind of spectacle we'd get from a close title battle, that doesn't make that dominance any less incredible.

Yep, the domination at the moment is on the FW14B/RB9 level. It's dull though because the Red Bull team has a superstar driver and a journeyman.

[RichB]

paulguitar said:

C70R said:

Sky commentators spent most of the immediate aftermath talking about the disappointment of the safety car finish, rather than how incredible the win was.

I'm not sure the win was 'incredible'. It was widely predicted before the start and what we saw was what everyone expected.

Verstappen's win was a easy cruise, pretty well nailed on from the start. The race was always about who would fill the other podium places.

[C70R]

paulguitar said:

C70R said:

It can be predicted and incredible at the same time. That car/driver combination is as dominant as anything we've seen in recent years.

While it doesn't make for the kind of spectacle we'd get from a close title battle, that doesn't make that dominance any less incredible.

Yep, the domination at the moment is on the FW14B/RB9 level. It's dull though because the Red Bull team has a superstar driver and a journeyman.

The lack of real challenge for the lead isn't making for much of a spectacle right now, but I don't think that's really down to Perez.

It's been historically rare to see a WDC battle between teammates, and Mercedes showed us the effect it has on harmony in the team.

Journeyman or not, Perez is good enough for RB to sew up the WCC pretty convincingly this season (currently 140pts ahead!). That's probably as much as RB need from him right now.

[PhilAsia]

kambites said:

C70R said:

It can be predicted and incredible at the same time. That car/driver combination is as dominant as anything we've seen in recent years.

Indeed. We've basically seeing a carbon copy of the more dominant periods of the Hamilton years - everyone knew Hamilton was going to win most of the races even if he didn't start at the front because he had the best car and was a better driver than his teammate, but that didn't make it any less impressive what both the team and the driver were/are achieving.

Pretty much a summary of my thoughts on this season.

[thiscocks]

C70R said:

Sky also turned up the crowd booing louder for Max's post-race interview than they did for the cheering for Leclerc's.

It's all so tragically antagonistic, and some people will fall for it hook, line and sinker.

Do you know this for a fact?

[SeenTheStrings]

TheDeuce said:

Tyre Smoke said:

SeenTheStrings said:

Tyre Smoke said:

Blib said:

Hamilton said:

It always brings memories back, that is the rule that it should be, right? So only one time in the history of the sport, that they haven’t done the rule.

What???

Abu Dhabi, 2021. Make the rules up as you go along, so that ‘not Hamilton’ wins. Let’s face it, Bernie didn’t want Lewis to get an 8th WDC and, unfortunately, the poisoned dwarf still seems to have some leverage.

I see.

It's weird, I distinctly remember Bernie saying that Lewis was an amazing ambassador for the sport and that Nico could do more. He's been a huge supporter of Lewis throughout.

Obviously he's a very old white billionaire but we shouldn't assume he's anti Lewis for the sake of assumption. I don't think there's any evidence of such a stance.

The only evidence that back my assertion is the Bernie said it himself in an interview: “Max won it fair and square which is a good thing to do. People are just as happy to see a new face win it. I personally was happy that Lewis didn’t win an eighth championship because of Michael Schumacher. I wouldn’t like to see that broken.”

Bernie coming out and saying it directly is the only evidence I need to tell me he thinks that.

[RichB]

kambites said:

Indeed. We've basically seeing a carbon copy of the more dominant periods of the Hamilton years - everyone knew Hamilton was going to win most of the races even if he didn't start at the front because he had the best car and was a better driver than his teammate, but that didn't make it any less impressive what both the team and the driver were/are achieving.

Of course that's leaving aside the years Hamilton had WDC Jenson Button, WDC Fernando Alonso and WDC Nico Rosberg as his team mates. But this isn't about him, it's about the cakewalk that is Verstappen's championship due to Mercedes not designing a good car and Ferrari constantly doing their best to throw away points.

[Mr Pointy]

C70R said:

Even with the slightly unsatisfactory finish, Leclerc didn't have a cat in hell's chance of beating Max in a short sprint.

And even if he had, it would have been a total travesty given how good Max/RB were for the previous 50-odd laps.

Sky commentators spent most of the immediate aftermath talking about the disappointment of the safety car finish, rather than how incredible the win was. Stirring the pot as ever.

So you agree it was a total travesty that Verstappen was assisted to beat Hamilton in Abu Dhabi given how good Hamilton & Mercedes had been prior to the accident that led to the safety car?

[Adrian W]

paulguitar said:

C70R said:

Sky commentators spent most of the immediate aftermath talking about the disappointment of the safety car finish, rather than how incredible the win was.

Edited by C70R on Monday 12th September 11:31

I'm not sure the win was 'incredible'. It was widely predicted before the start and what we saw was what everyone expected.


if they applied the rules as they previously chose to Leclerc would have been all over Verstappen and maybe got past.

[C70R]

thiscocks said:

C70R said:

Sky also turned up the crowd booing louder for Max's post-race interview than they did for the cheering for Leclerc's.

It's all so tragically antagonistic, and some people will fall for it hook, line and sinker.

Do you know this for a fact?

There was almost zero noise when Leclerc was interviewed, which is basically impossible in Italy.

Whereas when Max was interviewed the boos were almost drowning out his voice, yet neither him not the interviewer needed to speak up.

It's the same as Max's cooldown lap. We were watching him in the car, listening to the radio, but overlaid with the booing from the grandstand microphones. That was all down to the Sky director.

[heebeegeetee]

RichB said:

f course that's leaving aside the years Hamilton had WDC Jenson Button, WDC Fernando Alonso and WDC Nico Rosberg as his team mates. But this isn't about him, it's about the cakewalk that is Verstappen's championship due to Mercedes not designing a good car and Ferrari constantly doing their best to throw away points.

The cakewalk that is Verstappen's championship due to Mercedes not designing a good car, Ferrari constantly doing their best to throw away points and RB's policy of never letting their number one driver be challenged.

I'm gonna say it's a much easier cakewalk than Lewis ever had. I mean, weren't Ferrari allowed to use their cheat engine for about a season and a half?

[C70R]

Adrian W said:

paulguitar said:

C70R said:

Sky commentators spent most of the immediate aftermath talking about the disappointment of the safety car finish, rather than how incredible the win was.

Edited by C70R on Monday 12th September 11:31

I'm not sure the win was 'incredible'. It was widely predicted before the start and what we saw was what everyone expected.

if they applied the rules as they previously chose to Leclerc would have been all over Verstappen and maybe got past.

He hadn't shown any sign of being as quick as Max all afternoon (in fact, all season). The probability was extremely low.

I'd have preferred but to finish under the safety car from a spectacle standpoint, but I don't think it changed the result.

More importantly, nor should it have. Max absolutely dominated that race, and it would have been a travesty if a safety car robbed him of the win.

[C70R]

Mr Pointy said:

C70R said:

Even with the slightly unsatisfactory finish, Leclerc didn't have a cat in hell's chance of beating Max in a short sprint.

And even if he had, it would have been a total travesty given how good Max/RB were for the previous 50-odd laps.

Sky commentators spent most of the immediate aftermath talking about the disappointment of the safety car finish, rather than how incredible the win was. Stirring the pot as ever.

So you agree it was a total travesty that Verstappen was assisted to beat Hamilton in Abu Dhabi given how good Hamilton & Mercedes had been prior to the accident that led to the safety car?

Absolutely. Abu Dhabi was a shambles of epic proportions.

[C70R]

heebeegeetee said:

RichB said:

f course that's leaving aside the years Hamilton had WDC Jenson Button, WDC Fernando Alonso and WDC Nico Rosberg as his team mates. But this isn't about him, it's about the cakewalk that is Verstappen's championship due to Mercedes not designing a good car and Ferrari constantly doing their best to throw away points.

The cakewalk that is Verstappen's championship due to Mercedes not designing a good car, Ferrari constantly doing their best to throw away points and RB's policy of never letting their number one driver be challenged.

I'm gonna say it's a much easier cakewalk than Lewis ever had. I mean, weren't Ferrari allowed to use their cheat engine for about a season and a half?

Lewis had Bottas as a teammate for four of his titles, and comfortably the best car.

Max is benefiting from an exceptional car this season, but let's not rewrite history here.

[wpa1975]

C70R said:

He hadn't shown any sign of being as quick as Max all afternoon (in fact, all season). The probability was extremely low.

I'd have preferred but to finish under the safety car from a spectacle standpoint, but I don't think it changed the result.

More importantly, nor should it have. Max absolutely dominated that race, and it would have been a travesty if a safety car robbed him of the win.

Yet it was ok when they robbed Lewis last year,

[FNG]

paulguitar said:

C70R said:

It can be predicted and incredible at the same time. That car/driver combination is as dominant as anything we've seen in recent years.

While it doesn't make for the kind of spectacle we'd get from a close title battle, that doesn't make that dominance any less incredible.

Yep, the domination at the moment is on the FW14B/RB9 level. It's dull though because the Red Bull team has a superstar driver and a journeyman.

Or Mercedes W05, W06, W07, W10...

[heebeegeetee]

C70R said:

Lewis had Bottas as a teammate for four of his titles, and comfortably the best car.

Max is benefiting from an exceptional car this season, but let's not rewrite history here.

Lewis had Rosberg for three of his titles, Alonso almost certainly cost Lewis one title (although possibly none of us wants to see a rookie walk into F1 and win the wdc at his first attempt), plus during the years when a championship wasn't in the offing he still had to battle Button.

Yes he had the best car (and certainly was in the best team) but I think had Lewis been at Ferrari for those 'cheat engine' years he may well have scored two championships for them.

Bottas could take pole from Lewis at Silverstone too. Bottas was quick to begin with, but I think a driver like Lewis just wears his team mates down in the end. Certainly, Nico wasn't prepared to go through another year like he'd had.

[C70R]

wpa1975 said:

C70R said:

He hadn't shown any sign of being as quick as Max all afternoon (in fact, all season). The probability was extremely low.

I'd have preferred but to finish under the safety car from a spectacle standpoint, but I don't think it changed the result.

More importantly, nor should it have. Max absolutely dominated that race, and it would have been a travesty if a safety car robbed him of the win.

Yet it was ok when they robbed Lewis last year,

No, it wasn't. That was awful.

Nuanced thinking is underrated, it seems...