Official 2022 Italian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

Official 2022 Italian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

Poll: Official 2022 Italian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

Total Members Polled: 164

Hamilton: 12%
Russell: 3%
Verstappen: 63%
Perez: 0%
Leclerc: 16%
Sainz: 7%
Author
Discussion

ch37

9,766 posts

207 months

Monday 12th September 2022
quotequote all
SmoothCriminal said:
Why is there this obsession with an artifical finish to the race by not letting it finish under the safety car.
Quite. Despite the Sky commentary teams constant obsession with suggesting things 'could get close', it rarely does, and even then it's because the lead driver is backing off to preserve the car. Chances are the race would have finished largely as it did (and certainly at the sharp end), so all we're really robbed of in the very rare circumstance that this happens is a chequered flag with the cars going a bit faster.

Frimley111R

13,787 posts

220 months

Monday 12th September 2022
quotequote all
ch37 said:
Quite. Despite the Sky commentary teams constant obsession with suggesting things 'could get close', it rarely does, and even then it's because the lead driver is backing off to preserve the car. Chances are the race would have finished largely as it did (and certainly at the sharp end), so all we're really robbed of in the very rare circumstance that this happens is a chequered flag with the cars going a bit faster.
Commentators can't say 'Well, it looks static and no one is likely to catch anyone so you might as well switch off now and google the result later on.'

They have to hype it up and make it as exciting as it can be even if, often, the result is a foregone conclusion. On a number of occasions you hear them suggest the threat of rain when it's blue skies.

C70R

13,873 posts

90 months

Monday 12th September 2022
quotequote all
shirt said:
C70R said:
Lewis had Bottas as a teammate for four of his titles, and comfortably the best car.

Max is benefiting from an exceptional car this season, but let's not rewrite history here.
Agree but I’d also add this will be max’s 2nd wdc in 8 attempts. Lewis has 7 from 16. Long way to go yet before their careers can be properly compared.
I'm not sure anyone is comparing their overall careers, are they?

Byker28i

48,128 posts

203 months

Monday 12th September 2022
quotequote all
Has a quick skim, did we find out why Bottas etc sat behind the safety car and didn't unlap?

heebeegeetee

27,950 posts

234 months

Monday 12th September 2022
quotequote all
C70R said:
- A teammate who is consistently finishing in the top 4 spots, but not challenging too closely
You can't put Alonso, Button, Rosberg, Russel (have I missed anyone) in those categories, you could put all of Max's team mates possibly, except the ones who weren't quick enough for a top four.

snotrag

13,770 posts

197 months

Monday 12th September 2022
quotequote all
Bloody Hell - Albon went into intentsive care after his op, it didnt exactly go to plan!


Heal well Alex!


https://www.williamsf1.com/posts/30a27ca2-26e6-4b0...

simon_harris

301 posts

20 months

Monday 12th September 2022
quotequote all
Byker28i said:
Has a quick skim, did we find out why Bottas etc sat behind the safety car and didn't unlap?
I've been looking all over and can find no mention of it anywhere which seems odd to me!

heebeegeetee

27,950 posts

234 months

Monday 12th September 2022
quotequote all
snotrag said:
Bloody Hell - Albon went into intentsive care after his op, it didnt exactly go to plan!


Heal well Alex!


https://www.williamsf1.com/posts/30a27ca2-26e6-4b0...
OMG! Get well soon Alex.

kambites

65,549 posts

207 months

Monday 12th September 2022
quotequote all
RichB said:
kambites said:
Indeed. We've basically seeing a carbon copy of the more dominant periods of the Hamilton years - everyone knew Hamilton was going to win most of the races even if he didn't start at the front because he had the best car and was a better driver than his teammate, but that didn't make it any less impressive what both the team and the driver were/are achieving.
Of course that's leaving aside the years Hamilton had WDC Jenson Button, WDC Fernando Alonso and WDC Nico Rosberg as his team mates. wink But this isn't about him, it's about the cakewalk that is Verstappen's championship due to Mercedes not designing a good car and Ferrari constantly doing their best to throw away points. hehe
Err, yeah, that's what I said isn't it? "the more dominant periods of the Hamilton years", ie the ones where he was more dominant.

PhilAsia

2,339 posts

61 months

Monday 12th September 2022
quotequote all
C70R said:
heebeegeetee said:
C70R said:
Lewis had Bottas as a teammate for four of his titles, and comfortably the best car.

Max is benefiting from an exceptional car this season, but let's not rewrite history here.
Lewis had Rosberg for three of his titles, Alonso almost certainly cost Lewis one title (although possibly none of us wants to see a rookie walk into F1 and win the wdc at his first attempt), plus during the years when a championship wasn't in the offing he still had to battle Button.

Yes he had the best car (and certainly was in the best team) but I think had Lewis been at Ferrari for those 'cheat engine' years he may well have scored two championships for them.

Bottas could take pole from Lewis at Silverstone too. Bottas was quick to begin with, but I think a driver like Lewis just wears his team mates down in the end. Certainly, Nico wasn't prepared to go through another year like he'd had. smile
Right. All that is fair. But it's absolutely unfair to describe the Max/RB combo as "more of a cakewalk" than Lewis enjoyed at his peak.

WDC wins have historically almost always had:
- The best car
- The fastest, or at least one of the fastest lead drivers
- A teammate who is consistently finishing in the top 4 spots, but not challenging too closely
Max has not always had it all his own way. Ric beat him in 2016 and 2017... And against Norris Ric looks amateurish.

Sandpit Steve

7,412 posts

60 months

Monday 12th September 2022
quotequote all
snotrag said:
Bloody Hell - Albon went into intentsive care after his op, it didnt exactly go to plan!


Heal well Alex!


https://www.williamsf1.com/posts/30a27ca2-26e6-4b0...
Oh dear, that’s not good but glad he’s getting better.

It does happen sometimes, a reaction to the anesthesic where the body goes back to sleep after waking up - without the full theatre team around. Scary if no-one notices!

kambites

65,549 posts

207 months

Monday 12th September 2022
quotequote all
PhilAsia said:
Max has not always had it all his own way. Ric beat him in 2016 and 2017... And against Norris Ric looks amateurish.
It's not really the same RIcciardo though... ehether it's that the Mclaren doesn't suit him, or this era of cars doesn't suit him, or both, or he's go worse for some reason... Ricciardo was genuinely one of the best drivers out there in his Redbull days and got more out of his Renault than many thought it should be capable of but at Mclaren he's not really a benchmark.

MCBrowncoat

642 posts

132 months

Monday 12th September 2022
quotequote all
I looked at the stats for this yesterday because I wasn't sure myself. Of Lewis' 7 WDC's:

Two were won with three races then remaining
Two were won at the last race
The other three were won with two races remaining.

In terms of levels of cake-walkery, if Max wraps this up with five races remaining, it's a much bigger cake walk than Lewis ever had.

Of course, there are more races now than there were when Lewis started racing, so that comes into it - and I can't be bothered to go back and check when he won with those races left + how many races in a season - plus that effing stupid 2014 finale where there were double points on offer.

But overall, this has been one of the least competitive seasons I've seen in a while. I'm not sure how far you'd have to go back to find a something worse...One of Schumachers? Mansells? Dunno



kambites

65,549 posts

207 months

Monday 12th September 2022
quotequote all
MCBrowncoat said:
In terms of levels of cake-walkery, if Max wraps this up with five races remaining, it's a much bigger cake walk than Lewis ever had.
That's partly because Hamilton's teammates were all far closer to him than Perez is to Verstappen. Whether that's a statement about Hamilton's teammates vs Perex, or Hamilton vs Verstappen will obviously come down to one's personal bias but the real answer is that it's impossible to know for certain.

andburg

6,071 posts

155 months

Monday 12th September 2022
quotequote all
MCBrowncoat said:
I looked at the stats for this yesterday because I wasn't sure myself. Of Lewis' 7 WDC's:

Two were won with three races then remaining
Two were won at the last race
The other three were won with two races remaining.

In terms of levels of cake-walkery, if Max wraps this up with five races remaining, it's a much bigger cake walk than Lewis ever had.

Of course, there are more races now than there were when Lewis started racing, so that comes into it - and I can't be bothered to go back and check when he won with those races left + how many races in a season - plus that effing stupid 2014 finale where there were double points on offer.

But overall, this has been one of the least competitive seasons I've seen in a while. I'm not sure how far you'd have to go back to find a something worse...One of Schumachers? Mansells? Dunno
This year has had the pace differential at the front for a real fight all season long but the other team involved were Ferrari who have squandered opportunities left right and centre.

PhilAsia

2,339 posts

61 months

Monday 12th September 2022
quotequote all
kambites said:
PhilAsia said:
Max has not always had it all his own way. Ric beat him in 2016 and 2017... And against Norris Ric looks amateurish.
It's not really the same RIcciardo though... ehether it's that the Mclaren doesn't suit him, or this era of cars doesn't suit him, or both, or he's go worse for some reason... Ricciardo was genuinely one of the best drivers out there in his Redbull days and got more out of his Renault than many thought it should be capable of but at Mclaren he's not really a benchmark.
Oh, I agree that Ric isn't performing as he can, but he still beat Max in two seasons. Others have mentioned Bottas, so I thought I would add to the mix. Is Bottas driving as well this season?


kambites

65,549 posts

207 months

Monday 12th September 2022
quotequote all
Bottas started the season strongly but does seem to have lost his mojo a bit in the latter part of the season.

C70R

13,873 posts

90 months

Monday 12th September 2022
quotequote all
PhilAsia said:
Max has not always had it all his own way. Ric beat him in 2016 and 2017... And against Norris Ric looks amateurish.
I'm not sure Danny Ric is the sort of paragon of consistency to make that kind of comparison with.

Danny now is a very different driver than Danny 2016.

entropy

5,023 posts

189 months

Monday 12th September 2022
quotequote all
C70R said:
ch37 said:
C70R said:
Did you watch any of his title seasons?

In the rare instances that he didn't qualify up front, that package was unstoppable carving through the field.
I have a terrible memory, which is why I phrased it as a question, not a statement. So without safety cars/ stoppages or weather, and at every type of circuit, Lewis could cruise through the field without a fight on the rare ocassion he wasn't in the top 7 or so?

The absolute inevitableness when that happens feels new, but as I said I may be wrong.
It's true that his title seasons often saw him as one of the best on a Saturday. But there were plenty of cases where he either didn't qualify up front or had to battle through mid-race.

It's easy to forget how dominant him and that Mercedes were as time diminishes the memory.
Good example is 2021 Brazilian GP sprint race he went from last to P5/P4? but then the Merc was notorious for being poor in traffic/dirty air. 2021 Italian GP spring race springs to mind but then there was hardly an overtake and not even from Lewis in the theoretically faster car.

C70R

13,873 posts

90 months

Monday 12th September 2022
quotequote all
heebeegeetee said:
C70R said:
- A teammate who is consistently finishing in the top 4 spots, but not challenging too closely
You can't put Alonso, Button, Rosberg, Russel (have I missed anyone) in those categories, you could put all of Max's team mates possibly, except the ones who weren't quick enough for a top four.
I was talking about championship winning teams.

Hamilton didn't win a title with Button or Alonso as his teammate, and he doesn't look like he's going to win one with George in the only season they've shared a car. Rosberg was the outlier.