Official 2022 Italian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

[RB Will]

Not done the maths but it must be pretty close, if you give CLC the points he has missed, take off the ones Max would have lost if CLC had finished where he should have of ahead of Max, then added back on the 35ish points max has dropped it has to be in the ballpark

[Mark-C]

If we take this to it's logical (or illogical) conclusion can't someone just work out the points that everyone would have based on their grid position and announce the pretend championship position based on that?

That'll give us something else to argue about whilst we wait for Singapore

[Aids0G]

With Perez so far off Max currently, hypothetically if Red Bull turned up at Lando's door with a big cheque to join them for 2024 is the general consensus that we would have a Hamilton-Rosberg team battle for next year? Or is Lando not quite there yet?

[Muzzer79]

Aids0G said:

With Perez so far off Max currently, hypothetically if Red Bull turned up at Lando's door with a big cheque to join them for 2024 is the general consensus that we would have a Hamilton-Rosberg team battle for next year? Or is Lando not quite there yet?

Why would Red Bull turn up at Lando's door, even hypothetically?

If this is a question as to whether Lando is at Max's level, nobody knows. Lando is really good, but until he gets a good car, we don't know how good.

[Aids0G]

Muzzer79 said:

Aids0G said:

With Perez so far off Max currently, hypothetically if Red Bull turned up at Lando's door with a big cheque to join them for 2024 is the general consensus that we would have a Hamilton-Rosberg team battle for next year? Or is Lando not quite there yet?

Why would Red Bull turn up at Lando's door, even hypothetically?

If this is a question as to whether Lando is at Max's level, nobody knows. Lando is really good, but until he gets a good car, we don't know how good.

I assume at some point they would want to replace Perez and of the other drivers on the grid Lando seems a good fit for Redbull and looks like one of if not the fastest drivers not in a top team.

More a question of how Red Bull would handle having two top drivers in the team.

[kambites]

angrymoby said:

Max would be 40-50 points clear still if we aren't myopic & apply the same/similar level of 'whattifery'

That sounds about right. It would require some impressive mental gymnastics to manage to come to a conclusion that Leclerc should be ahead. The WCC might be closer though because I think Sainz has been significantly out-performing Perez.

[C70R]

Aids0G said:

Muzzer79 said:

Aids0G said:

With Perez so far off Max currently, hypothetically if Red Bull turned up at Lando's door with a big cheque to join them for 2024 is the general consensus that we would have a Hamilton-Rosberg team battle for next year? Or is Lando not quite there yet?

Why would Red Bull turn up at Lando's door, even hypothetically?

If this is a question as to whether Lando is at Max's level, nobody knows. Lando is really good, but until he gets a good car, we don't know how good.

I assume at some point they would want to replace Perez and of the other drivers on the grid Lando seems a good fit for Redbull and looks like one of if not the fastest drivers not in a top team.

More a question of how Red Bull would handle having two top drivers in the team.

They are going to win the WDC and WCC fairly comfortably this season. No idea why they'd even entertain the idea of changing Perez now. He might not be battling for the title, but he's doing everything the team asks of him at the moment.

[Muzzer79]

Aids0G said:

Muzzer79 said:

Aids0G said:

With Perez so far off Max currently, hypothetically if Red Bull turned up at Lando's door with a big cheque to join them for 2024 is the general consensus that we would have a Hamilton-Rosberg team battle for next year? Or is Lando not quite there yet?

Why would Red Bull turn up at Lando's door, even hypothetically?

If this is a question as to whether Lando is at Max's level, nobody knows. Lando is really good, but until he gets a good car, we don't know how good.

I assume at some point they would want to replace Perez and of the other drivers on the grid Lando seems a good fit for Redbull and looks like one of if not the fastest drivers not in a top team.

More a question of how Red Bull would handle having two top drivers in the team.

Red Bull will replace Perez with another Perez-like driver. They don't want or need Lando or a Charles LeClerc or a George Russell whilst they have Verstappen.

If they happen to stumble upon one (Herta, for example, very maybe) then they'll manage it, but they'll certainly not be buying one in.

We fans often make the mistake of assuming that teams want two of the fastest drivers when, in reality, they want one of the fastest drivers and then a fast driver alongside.
This has proven to be the best method to win - see Hamilton/Bottas, Schumacher/Barrichello, Hakkinen/Coulthard, Vettel/Webber and so on.

Having two top drivers has worked in the past and Red Bull will want cover in case Max jumps ship like Vettel did, but they'll want one of their own probably.

[C70R]

Muzzer79 said:

Having two top drivers has worked in the past and Red Bull will want cover in case Max jumps ship like Vettel did, but they'll want one of their own probably.

Very rarely has having two evenly-matched drivers resulted in a WDC for the team. Lewis/Nico and Prost/Senna are massive outliers.

[Chebble]

Muzzer79 said:

Red Bull will replace Perez with another Perez-like driver. They don't want or need Lando or a Charles LeClerc or a George Russell whilst they have Verstappen.

If they happen to stumble upon one (Herta, for example, very maybe) then they'll manage it, but they'll certainly not be buying one in.

We fans often make the mistake of assuming that teams want two of the fastest drivers when, in reality, they want one of the fastest drivers and then a fast driver alongside.
This has proven to be the best method to win - see Hamilton/Bottas, Schumacher/Barrichello, Hakkinen/Coulthard, Vettel/Webber and so on.

Having two top drivers has worked in the past and Red Bull will want cover in case Max jumps ship like Vettel did, but they'll want one of their own probably.

This is bang on the money, IMO.

[Muzzer79]

C70R said:

Muzzer79 said:

Having two top drivers has worked in the past and Red Bull will want cover in case Max jumps ship like Vettel did, but they'll want one of their own probably.

Very rarely has having two evenly-matched drivers resulted in a WDC for the team. Lewis/Nico and Prost/Senna are massive outliers.

Lauda/Prost

Mansell/Piquet

Hill/Villeneuve (arguably)

Aswell as the two you mentioned.

It's not unheard of, with the right car.

[carlo996]

Chebble said:

This is bang on the money, IMO.

Yes. You need one to win the WDC and a second for the events your #1 has an issue and to secure manufactures title. Two #1 drivers is asking for drama.

[HustleRussell]

Muzzer79 said:

C70R said:

Very rarely has having two evenly-matched drivers resulted in a WDC for the team.

It's not unheard of, with the right car.

I feel like back in the day racing drivers were, to quote Frank Williams, 'lightbulbs'... nowadays it seems like the cars and the teams are so complex to operate that teams don't want to just swap drivers willy nilly. There has been a spate of very long contracts dished out to Leclerc and Verstappen for example. Being a Formula 1 driver seems much more like a career job now.

Having two number 1 drivers might not result in instant fireworks but IMO those drivers are on a collision course from the start... they might be ok for one year but it is only a matter of time before they are on top of one another. Teams seem to expect their driver line-ups to offer stability for multiple years now.

[Jasandjules]

Aids0G said:

With Perez so far off Max currently, hypothetically if Red Bull turned up at Lando's door with a big cheque to join them for 2024 is the general consensus that we would have a Hamilton-Rosberg team battle for next year? Or is Lando not quite there yet?

No. Because Red Bull don't want anyone could challenge or beat Max. See Daniel for details... Or Perez when he was in with a chance of beating Max and being told not to etc.

Red Bull want a journeyman in the second seat only.

[C70R]

Muzzer79 said:

C70R said:

Muzzer79 said:

Having two top drivers has worked in the past and Red Bull will want cover in case Max jumps ship like Vettel did, but they'll want one of their own probably.

Very rarely has having two evenly-matched drivers resulted in a WDC for the team. Lewis/Nico and Prost/Senna are massive outliers.

Lauda/Prost

Mansell/Piquet

Hill/Villeneuve (arguably)

Aswell as the two you mentioned.

It's not unheard of, with the right car.

It's obviously not unheard of...

But if we can only name a handful (with one debatable) in the modern history of F1, then that makes it an outlier.

[cuprabob]

Apologies if it's already been discussed and I missed but it would seem Alex Albon had slight complications during his operation and ended up in ICU for a short time.
https://www.williamsf1.com/posts/30a27ca2-26e6-4b0...

[g4ry13]

cuprabob said:

Apologies if it's already been discussed and I missed but it would seem Alex Albon had slight complications during his operation and ended up in ICU for a short time.
https://www.williamsf1.com/posts/30a27ca2-26e6-4b0...

He's not racing in Singapore.Surely not...

[satfinal]

He's back in Monaco now, recovering.

[trackdemon]

g4ry13 said:

cuprabob said:

Apologies if it's already been discussed and I missed but it would seem Alex Albon had slight complications during his operation and ended up in ICU for a short time.
https://www.williamsf1.com/posts/30a27ca2-26e6-4b0...

He's not racing in Singapore.Surely not...

2.5 weeks to recover and he's obviously fitter than the average human; I've no idea what the recovery time for stuff like this usually is though. They've certainly found a useful stand in if he doesn't make it....

[HustleRussell]

ETA: I hope Albon makes a speedy recovery of course and will be happy to see him back...

I would actually like de Vries to get another go because I feel like it'll be a reality check for everyone. He did an astonishing job in his rookie race weekend but I feel that a number of things conspired in his favour. People are depreciating Albon's results vs. Latifi as a result and I don't think I'm ready to do that.