2021 Cost Cap Breaches
Discussion
RacerMike said:
Well. It’s just the latest attempt for the Merc PR machine to try and undermine last years result. I hate the way F1 is becoming like our politics. Just constant he said/she said with accusations and rumours dividing opinion constantly.
You don't think it would be the same if the other way round? I'm not a Mercedes fan specifically but I thought overall, both they and Hamilton in particular handled Abu Dhabi with unbelievable grace in the circumstances.If the cost cap overspend is an open secret in the paddock of course all the press will descend on Toto, he runs the team that has lost the most if this turns out to be true.
Big Nanas said:
Apologies if it’s been covered, but how has Toto managed to get access to the RB’s accounts? Surely these aren’t available for all to see before they’re submitted to the FIA.
Horner was careful with his words “We know where these rumours are coming from”, but Toto has gone full-on accusations.
If they are indeed available for any team to see, why have no other team principals added their voices?
During the Sky interview yesterday the suggestion was that a number of ex 2021 RB employees are now working for MB and nay have offered some insights to 21 spend. Horner was careful with his words “We know where these rumours are coming from”, but Toto has gone full-on accusations.
If they are indeed available for any team to see, why have no other team principals added their voices?
Horner was careful in stating “ the accounts we submitted “ but I am guessing the audit revealed some creative accounting hence.
All speculation but I suspect if true Max may lose the championship in the same controversial fashion he won 21.
coetzeeh said:
All speculation but I suspect if true Max may lose the championship in the same controversial fashion he won 21.
Now that really would be a bit harsh for Hamilton - "You lost last year's championship because your opponent was cheating so we're going to exclude him from this year's championship when you don't have a fast enough car to be the one to benefit". 
I really hope it turns out to be nothing, because if the rumours turn out to be true will be seriously damaging to the sport whatever the FIA do.
Edited by kambites on Saturday 1st October 10:18
If it gets reversed after 12 months, aren't all the betting companies going to be in a sticky wicket and want some comeback from "F1?"
Money and negative financial implications of decisions will definitely come into it. Another reason I think it will be allowed to stand and a slapped wrist and future rule clarification issued.
Money and negative financial implications of decisions will definitely come into it. Another reason I think it will be allowed to stand and a slapped wrist and future rule clarification issued.
coetzeeh said:
All speculation but I suspect if true Max may lose the championship in the same controversial fashion he won 21.
If anything, the team will be punished, not the drivers. It will be like 2007 when McLaren were excluded from the WCC but the drivers kept their WDC points and standings. And as Red Bull didn't win the WCC last year it will only need a minor amendment to the history books.Big Nanas said:
Apologies if it’s been covered, but how has Toto managed to get access to the RB’s accounts? Surely these aren’t available for all to see before they’re submitted to the FIA.
Horner was careful with his words “We know where these rumours are coming from”, but Toto has gone full-on accusations.
If they are indeed available for any team to see, why have no other team principals added their voices?
Ferrari have been wading in to be fair. Horner was careful with his words “We know where these rumours are coming from”, but Toto has gone full-on accusations.
If they are indeed available for any team to see, why have no other team principals added their voices?
RacerMike said:
There’s clearly a lot of bias towards hoping redbull get punished on this thread (I notice for example no one has said they hope Aston Martin get all their points from last year deducted!), which I understand, and I get what you’re saying, but there’s a history of bending the rules in F1, so whilst you can argue breaking the cost cap makes a farce of it, so do numerous other things over the decades.
It’s a fine line between pushing the definition of the rules and cheating, and that’s a topic for another thread, however culturally F1 is very much a place where everyone is looking for and advantage. As I said, I’m pretty sure they’ve all been overspending in one way or another. It’s just easier to hide or justify when you’re the subsidiary of a large car manufacturer that also has other motorsport activity. Who’s really checking what the teams of people at HWA or McLren Automotive are doing day to day and whether the component development they’re working on is really for a 720S GT3 or a Mercedes One.
If the rumours are accurate (big if) then Aston is a minor technical breach rather than a material one. Which does explain some of the difference in reaction. It’s a fine line between pushing the definition of the rules and cheating, and that’s a topic for another thread, however culturally F1 is very much a place where everyone is looking for and advantage. As I said, I’m pretty sure they’ve all been overspending in one way or another. It’s just easier to hide or justify when you’re the subsidiary of a large car manufacturer that also has other motorsport activity. Who’s really checking what the teams of people at HWA or McLren Automotive are doing day to day and whether the component development they’re working on is really for a 720S GT3 or a Mercedes One.
Edited by RacerMike on Saturday 1st October 09:04
I’m not saying there is no anti red bull sentiment but the situations aren’t the same.
RacerMike said:
Well. It’s just the latest attempt for the Merc PR machine to try and undermine last years result. I hate the way F1 is becoming like our politics. Just constant he said/she said with accusations and rumours dividing opinion constantly.
Yes, both politics and sports suffer when they become occupied by rule breakers.thegreenhell said:
coetzeeh said:
All speculation but I suspect if true Max may lose the championship in the same controversial fashion he won 21.
If anything, the team will be punished, not the drivers. It will be like 2007 when McLaren were excluded from the WCC but the drivers kept their WDC points and standings. And as Red Bull didn't win the WCC last year it will only need a minor amendment to the history books.GiantCardboardPlato said:
RacerMike said:
Well. It’s just the latest attempt for the Merc PR machine to try and undermine last years result. I hate the way F1 is becoming like our politics. Just constant he said/she said with accusations and rumours dividing opinion constantly.
Yes, both politics and sports suffer when they become occupied by rule breakers.F20CN16 said:
RacerMike said:
Well. It’s just the latest attempt for the Merc PR machine to try and undermine last years result. I hate the way F1 is becoming like our politics. Just constant he said/she said with accusations and rumours dividing opinion constantly.
It undermines itself rather well, since everyone knows it shouldn’t have been Max’s championship. Hardly a PR machine either - just the team principal calling a spade a spade is all I see.
Also, just as a matter of observation, Toto knows that if he claims major overspend without the need to show any evidence of that, if there wasn’t (and the FIA rightly find no wrong doing) then it reinforces those fans who hate RedBull in believing ‘it’s all fixed’ and the FIA are on RedBull’s side.
Toto is a businessman with shares in Mercedes. Nothing he does is done without great thought and consideration as to what effect it will have. It’s politics.
Toto is a businessman with shares in Mercedes. Nothing he does is done without great thought and consideration as to what effect it will have. It’s politics.
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