2021 Cost Cap Breaches

[cgt2]

zsdom said:

He looked a bit uncomfortable in that interview

And said deflamatory again!

It's either defamatory or inflammatory

[Gazzab]

Christian is preparing for his post f1 acting career.

[PhilAsia]

cgt2 said:

CoolHands said:

It won’t. Cos the main one anyone cares about is the WDC and they will never reverse that.

Exactly. A big fine or stripping of team points at the absolute worst. Even that level is doubtful as Max Mosley is in the ground.

And when the "non-fine" is meted out without any real impact, RB, etc, will throw their hands in the air and make a huge deal about it. That will satisfy RB and Max fans - to give them something to point to - and all will be well in the world.

[Jon_Bmw]

jsf said:

Christian is spinning the its the first year of complicated rules line. He knows they cheated.

Setting the scene for the impending climb down. Despite that being a difficult interview to handle I still think he did pretty well. Like most of the team principles he is a master of politics.

[PhilAsia]

Jon_Bmw said:

jsf said:

Christian is spinning the its the first year of complicated rules line. He knows they cheated.

Setting the scene for the impending climb down. Despite that being a difficult interview to handle I still think he did pretty well. Like most of the team principles he is a master of politics.

It is so obvious though...almost as if it is rehearsed.

[llewop]

cgt2 said:

CoolHands said:

It won’t. Cos the main one anyone cares about is the WDC and they will never reverse that.

Exactly. A big fine or stripping of team points at the absolute worst. Even that level is doubtful as Max Mosley is in the ground.

Interesting you mention MM. I was just checking back to when Toyota cheated in world rally with their trick turbo. On his watch; team and drivers excluded from championship.

[Petrus1983]

llewop said:

Interesting you mention MM. I was just checking back to when Toyota cheated in world rally with their trick turbo. On his watch; team and drivers excluded from championship.

2007 in F1 also.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Formula_One_e...

[Robberto]

If any team found a way to circumvent any technical rule by such a margin each and every race they would be thrown out of the championship standings at a minimum.

Punishment should be complete disqualification from WCC for last year and this year (as per the McLaren/Ferrari thing, pink Mercedes, dumping water ballast and refillling before scrutineering etc., it’s always the team that’s punished not the driver), removal of the overspend from next year’s budget (too late to do it for this year) and a fine equal to the overspend also to come out of next year’s budget plus the stripping of any prize money already paid.

And if they do it again this year, same again.

If the punishment isn’t basically the nuclear option then it won’t be a deterrent.

[The Vambo]

cgt2 said:

Christian just said "deflamatory" ? No such word exists

It's a just a small step from making up number to making up words for Christian

[Newscuttlepanel]

Robberto said:

If any team found a way to circumvent any technical rule by such a margin each and every race they would be thrown out of the championship standings at a minimum.

Punishment should be complete disqualification from WCC for last year and this year (as per the McLaren/Ferrari thing, pink Mercedes, dumping water ballast and refillling before scrutineering etc., it’s always the team that’s punished not the driver), removal of the overspend from next year’s budget (too late to do it for this year) and a fine equal to the overspend also to come out of next year’s budget plus the stripping of any prize money already paid.

And if they do it again this year, same again.

If the punishment isn’t basically the nuclear option then it won’t be a deterrent.

None of those are the nuclear option though, more like very heavy sanctions with possible long term impact that still leave Red Bull with 1 wdc and more than likely another this year and possibly next year as well.

[Mach]

I accept I may be missing the point here somewhat but my biggest concern is around labels.

IF it is proven that Red Bull smashed the budget cap in 2021 with the associated benefits accrued in 2022, does that mean we have to replace the asterisk on Max’s 2021 WDC with a laugh out loud emoji so the asterisk can be transferred to his 2022 WDC.

I’m really not sure of the correct etiquette in these situations…

[kambites]

Robberto said:

If the punishment isn’t basically the nuclear option then it won’t be a deterrent.

Yup, and plenty of long terms F1 fans have been saying they'll give the FIA the benefit of the doubt when they said from 2022 they'll clamp down on the inconsistent enforcement and implementation of the rules last season... if they let any team get away with breaching the cost cap without severe consequences, that's certainly going to be the end of me watching F1 and I suspect I won't be the only one.

Will the FIA care? Possibly not, there are probably more people watching for the spectacle than for the sport.

[MiniMan64]

I’m amazed how anyone can say it’s not a big deal if proved.

If proved, does push Red Bull above Ferrari in the F1 Biggest Cheaters table?

[anonymous-user]

Mach said:

I accept I may be missing the point here somewhat but my biggest concern is around labels.

IF it is proven that Red Bull smashed the budget cap in 2021 with the associated benefits accrued in 2022, does that mean we have to replace the asterisk on Max’s 2021 WDC with a laugh out loud emoji so the asterisk can be transferred to his 2022 WDC.

I’m really not sure of the correct etiquette in these situations…

2021 -
2022 -
2023 -

HTH

[Mach]

Appreciated, thank you

[GiantCardboardPlato]

RacerMike said:

Also, just as a matter of observation, Toto knows that if he claims major overspend without the need to show any evidence of that, if there wasn’t (and the FIA rightly find no wrong doing) then it reinforces those fans who hate RedBull in believing ‘it’s all fixed’ and the FIA are on RedBull’s side.

Toto is a businessman with shares in Mercedes. Nothing he does is done without great thought and consideration as to what effect it will have. It’s politics.

What do you think should happen to red bull if they have breached the cap?

[cgt2]

MiniMan64 said:

I’m amazed how anyone can say it’s not a big deal if proved.

If proved, does push Red Bull above Ferrari in the F1 Biggest Cheaters table?

Cough cough... Piquet Jr... Renault... cough cough

[VeeTenM]

Couple of backhanders.....move on people.....

[Evercross]

I'm with RacerMike on this. That this rumour was broken by a German media outlet and Toto is now all over it with insinuations but no actual working to back up his allegations reeks to me of sour grapes and an attempt to justify an objectively crap season to his shareholders, who are addicted to the success they have enjoyed since the hybrid era started, and try and recover some attention and media coverage that they've been failing to get this year

RB are the perceived bad boys so a fair chunk of observers are prepared to believe this allegation without any evidence being presented, so they are the easiest target for this. Throwing Aston Martin under the bus is just to make it all sound a bit more credible (because no-one really likes them either because Stroll Snr. is a bully).

This is supposed to relate to 2021 accounts so why raise it now? I suspect that if Mercedes' porpoising slug had been the fastest car on the grid this season this 'story' would never have materialised.

This is a politically calculated move. Of that there is no doubt.

Edited by Evercross on Saturday 1st October 13:25

[MiniMan64]

Evercross said:

I'm with RacerMike on this. That this rumour was broken by a German media outlet and Toto is now all over it with insinuations but no actual working to back up his allegations reeks to me of sour grapes and an attempt to justify an objectively crap season to his shareholders, who are addicted to the success they have enjoyed since the hybrid era started.

RB are the perceived bad boys so a fair chunk of observers are prepared to believe this allegation without any evidence being presented.

This is supposed to relate to 2021 accounts so why raise it now? I suspect that if Mercedes' porpoising slug had been the fastest car on the grid this season this 'story' would never have materialised.

Because the FIA have only just got around to certifying the teams off, due next week officially I believe. That’s where the leak has appeared from. How it takes nearly a year to complete however….