Perez, The Elephant in the Room??

[axel1990chp]

I think Perez is toast by season end if he doesn't get P2 in the WDC.
I would absolutely love to see Fernando Alonso in the 2nd RB seat. If anyone can tame a beast its him, and I think the clash of the Old Maestro vs the Young Bull would be a sight to behold.

I think Fred is the slightly better racer than Max, and I know he wouldn't give quarter to any of Max's get out my way antics, could prove a firestorm! It would make brilliant viewing for Joe Public, but maybe that's a reason why it will never happen?

We can hope!

I dont think DR deserves the seat tbh.

[paulguitar]

axel1990chp said:

I think Perez is toast by season end if he doesn't get P2 in the WDC.
I would absolutely love to see Fernando Alonso in the 2nd RB seat. If anyone can tame a beast its him, and I think the clash of the Old Maestro vs the Young Bull would be a sight to behold.

I think Fred is the slightly better racer than Max, and I know he wouldn't give quarter to any of Max's get out my way antics, could prove a firestorm! It would make brilliant viewing for Joe Public, but maybe that's a reason why it will never happen?

We can hope!

I dont think DR deserves the seat tbh.

I agree with all of this, although I’d class Alonso as a significantly better wheel to wheel racer than Verstappen.

[CT05 Nose Cone]

He's likely already been told he's lost his seat, it would just be bad PR to announce it before the Mexican GP.

[Muzzer79]

105.4 said:

Muzzer79 said:

F1 drivers don’t think that way.

They all intrinsically believe that if they were in a Red Bull too, they’d be beating Max because they all believe they’re faster than him.

Hmmmm. Yes. No. Maybe.

Whilst I broadly agree with your statement, when you have drivers such as Senna, Schumacher, Hamilton and Verstappen, I do wonder how many drivers on the grid truly believe, in their heart of hearts, if they can consistently beat such drivers.

Even in the junior formula, (F3 and Formula Vauxhall Lotus), I really rated Barrichello, but I’m not convinced that he thought he was overall better than Schumacher.

Nico Rosberg, a guy who is very intelligent and absolutely is no slouch, has openly admitted that he did have what it took to go up against Hamilton for another year.

I’m not saying that your statement is wrong Muzzer. It’s just that I’m sceptical that for many drivers, they may not honestly believe their own bullst.

I can see that there is a tipping point for a driver.

I guarantee right now that all the young ones - George, Lando, Esteban, Charles - all think they’re faster than Max.

But there’s a trench of drivers who have been up against the best and not cut it - Perez, Bottas, Stroll for example. They may accept that they can’t do some things their team mates have done.

But F1 drivers are masters of positive thinking. I would expect Perez to say that the car doesn’t suit him and the team is too much behind Max - fix those things and he’d dominate

I don’t think it’s possible to be a professional sportsman in the first half of your career and not think you can win and beat everyone else. If you think that way, you’re destined never to succeed.

[MustangGT]

paulguitar said:

I agree with all of this, although I’d class Alonso as a significantly better wheel to wheel racer than Verstappen.

Probably some others as well. MV has yet to really master wheel to wheel racing as it has been unnecessary so far. 2021 showed he was not good at that time.

[Sandpit Steve]

paulguitar said:

I agree with all of this, although I’d class Alonso as a significantly better wheel to wheel racer than Verstappen.

I’ll admit to never really being much of an Alonso fan - until this year.

[Chamon_Lee]

Never crossed my mind but alonso in a RB seat would be awsome, he still very much an elbows out driver so it would be awesome to see that from an entertain perspective. He certainly still has it as when hes in a quick car hes on it.

[thegreenhell]

It would be awesome, but they don't want someone who will give Max a hard time.

[HustleRussell]

MustangGT said:

paulguitar said:

I agree with all of this, although I’d class Alonso as a significantly better wheel to wheel racer than Verstappen.

Probably some others as well. MV has yet to really master wheel to wheel racing as it has been unnecessary so far. 2021 showed he was not good at that time.

I'd argue that Verstappen is in fact very good at it. There has been weakness in driving standards and stewarding. At times an absolute vacuum of authority and clarity. Verstappen has fully exploited that weakness. He has done a couple of things which are fully heinous. Dangerous. And gotten away with it. I blame 'sporting controls' not the driver. I don't like it, but I can't blame Max. He is almost literally the kid who has grown up without boundaries.

I hope the sport continues to learn from him and continues to refine the sporting regs to enshrine and enforce 'good, clean racing' as we know it. I wish they'd done this much more effectively and much earlier.

And no, I never liked Hamilton ploughing Rosberg off at T1 either. I would've liked to have seen something done about that too although I can see why that particular scenario will be difficult to regulate, practically speaking, which I feel is why Hamilton played that particular game. He was very good at making that one look like an accident in a way which other drivers don't seem to be able to do!

What we have right now is a sport where generally an overtaking attempt is over, if not on the straight, then before corner exit. Drivers seem to be at liberty to barge one another off the track. Battle over. Stewards need to grow some, tighten and then cement the boundaries.

I occasionally race Formula Ford. I do not believe that principles of driving standards and fair racing which are known to everyone in an amateur FF paddock are beyond the knowledge of professional drivers. What is lacking frankly is respect between drivers for each other and for the principles of good racing. In the absence of that respect, the substitute must be specific regulations and proper penalties.

[Wills2]

105.4 said:

Muzzer79 said:

F1 drivers don’t think that way.

They all intrinsically believe that if they were in a Red Bull too, they’d be beating Max because they all believe they’re faster than him.

Hmmmm. Yes. No. Maybe.

Whilst I broadly agree with your statement, when you have drivers such as Senna, Schumacher, Hamilton and Verstappen, I do wonder how many drivers on the grid truly believe, in their heart of hearts, if they can consistently beat such drivers.

Even in the junior formula, (F3 and Formula Vauxhall Lotus), I really rated Barrichello, but I’m not convinced that he thought he was overall better than Schumacher.

Nico Rosberg, a guy who is very intelligent and absolutely is no slouch, has openly admitted that he did have what it took to go up against Hamilton for another year.

I’m not saying that your statement is wrong Muzzer. It’s just that I’m sceptical that for many drivers, they may not honestly believe their own bullst.

They are in the main their own PR machines they have to be, but of course they know where they are in the pecking order but belief is a massive part of getting into one of those cars in the first place not only in their own ability but the cars as well.

No different to a boxer before a fight.

[Jasandjules]

thegreenhell said:

It would be awesome, but they don't want someone who will give Max a hard time.

Or one who will beat him...

[MustangGT]

HustleRussell said:

MustangGT said:

paulguitar said:

I agree with all of this, although I’d class Alonso as a significantly better wheel to wheel racer than Verstappen.

Probably some others as well. MV has yet to really master wheel to wheel racing as it has been unnecessary so far. 2021 showed he was not good at that time.

I'd argue that Verstappen is in fact very good at it. There has been weakness in driving standards and stewarding. At times an absolute vacuum of authority and clarity. Verstappen has fully exploited that weakness. He has done a couple of things which are fully heinous. Dangerous. And gotten away with it. I blame 'sporting controls' not the driver. I don't like it, but I can't blame Max. He is almost literally the kid who has grown up without boundaries.

I hope the sport continues to learn from him and continues to refine the sporting regs to enshrine and enforce 'good, clean racing' as we know it. I wish they'd done this much more effectively and much earlier.

Can't argue with the fact that MV has apparently been working to a different set of 'rules' compared to the other drivers. 2021 proved that, so have a few things this year. So yes, making full use of the laxity in not having consistent stewarding is good from his point of view, however, I disagree that the use of the laxity is good race-craft.

[TikTak]

paulguitar said:

axel1990chp said:

I think Perez is toast by season end if he doesn't get P2 in the WDC.
I would absolutely love to see Fernando Alonso in the 2nd RB seat. If anyone can tame a beast its him, and I think the clash of the Old Maestro vs the Young Bull would be a sight to behold.

I think Fred is the slightly better racer than Max, and I know he wouldn't give quarter to any of Max's get out my way antics, could prove a firestorm! It would make brilliant viewing for Joe Public, but maybe that's a reason why it will never happen?

We can hope!

I dont think DR deserves the seat tbh.

I agree with all of this, although I’d class Alonso as a significantly better wheel to wheel racer than Verstappen.

Yeah agreed. Love to see Fernando given a car capable of winning one last time, but it'll probably not happen now.

Unfortunately for DR it looks like his chance has passed him by hasn't it? Don't think he's as racy as he once was and with some of the new talent looking impressive not sure there much room for more than a couple cameo seasons grabbing the odd point.

Think they've chosen him on developmental fronts and branding for the change rather than outright performance.

[Simoncelli58]

Sandpit Steve said:

The reason they haven’t binned Perez is quite straightforward. Thanks to his performances earlier in the season, he’s still second in the drivers’ championship, and RB have never had a 1-2 before.

Now since the summer, he’s underperformed and the other constructors have caught up, but Perez is still second, with a gap of 30 points to Lewis in 3rd. One might argue that, if Lewis had finished on the podium last weekend and cut that gap in half, then Perez would be under serious threat, but there’s no way he’s getting fired when he can still get that elusive 1-2 for the team.

Exactly , if Perez finishes 2nd in the drivers championship why would RB even consider replacing him . The 23/24 spec cars will be basically identical , why bring someone else in to learn the car and why would they want someone to even remotely challenge MV .

[Bo_apex]

Jasandjules said:

thegreenhell said:

It would be awesome, but they don't want someone who will give Max a hard time.

Or one who will beat him...

MV's driving style is the quickest on the grid. The RB is now set up to fully exploit his technique, according to the experts.

It's likely that newbies will want to emulate his lines and braking modulation.

[BrettMRC]

I think Perez will announce his retirement at the Mexico GP.

[WPA]

Simoncelli58 said:

Sandpit Steve said:

The reason they haven’t binned Perez is quite straightforward. Thanks to his performances earlier in the season, he’s still second in the drivers’ championship, and RB have never had a 1-2 before.

Now since the summer, he’s underperformed and the other constructors have caught up, but Perez is still second, with a gap of 30 points to Lewis in 3rd. One might argue that, if Lewis had finished on the podium last weekend and cut that gap in half, then Perez would be under serious threat, but there’s no way he’s getting fired when he can still get that elusive 1-2 for the team.

Exactly , if Perez finishes 2nd in the drivers championship why would RB even consider replacing him . The 23/24 spec cars will be basically identical , why bring someone else in to learn the car and why would they want someone to even remotely challenge MV .

Yes but if next year other teams are regularly scoring double podiums with Perez nowhere it could hurt RB in the WCC.

[deadslow]

WPA said:

Yes but if next year other teams are regularly scoring double podiums with Perez nowhere it could hurt RB in the WCC.

very much this. The gap is closing, so regular podiums in the fastest car required to keep the seat.

The guy looks totally miserable just now, so wouldn't be surprised if he decided to call it a day sooner rather than later.

[geeks]

BrettMRC said:

I think Perez will announce his retirement at the Mexico GP.

Yeah I think you might be right, though Mexico 24 seems like the realistic one as he is still under contract (for now at least)

[Muzzer79]

BrettMRC said:

I think Perez will announce his retirement at the Mexico GP.

Which one? This year?

Why would he do that?