Perez, The Elephant in the Room??
Discussion
The Red Bull was the 2nd quickest car, but the gap between that and the Mercedes was far smaller than we've seen for a long time. It's much more effective at using DRS, something which Lewis alluded to in the cooldown room afterwards, but elsewhere on the track it was only relatively fine margins.
I think Checo had some s
t luck tbh... in qualifying he wasn't the only one to put his car on the white line, on another day he might have held it and made the top 10, and someone else might have been the one who binned it. So he started out of position, then got held up (like George) on a difficult track to overtake, behind slower cars who pitted later than they had hoped so he couldn't make best use of his extra pace and hard tyres.
But ultimately you sometimes have to make your own luck, and as is often the case when a driver is struggling, nothing seems to fall into place for Checo. I think that crash cost him 2 or 3 places, and unless he pulls off a miracle next weekend he'll be gone. The issue for Red Bull now is that he's not just costing the team points, but he's costing Max points. For the last couple of years Max has just driven the RB rocketship half a minute up the road and driven his own race, but now the other teams have closed the gap, having your teammate back in midfield gives fewer strategy options when it comes to pitstops or holding up another driver. Checo played this role perfectly in '21 when the margins between Max and Lewis were so narrow. Max has this issue now with the McLaren's, he needs a "wingman" up front to help support.
I think Checo had some s
t luck tbh... in qualifying he wasn't the only one to put his car on the white line, on another day he might have held it and made the top 10, and someone else might have been the one who binned it. So he started out of position, then got held up (like George) on a difficult track to overtake, behind slower cars who pitted later than they had hoped so he couldn't make best use of his extra pace and hard tyres. But ultimately you sometimes have to make your own luck, and as is often the case when a driver is struggling, nothing seems to fall into place for Checo. I think that crash cost him 2 or 3 places, and unless he pulls off a miracle next weekend he'll be gone. The issue for Red Bull now is that he's not just costing the team points, but he's costing Max points. For the last couple of years Max has just driven the RB rocketship half a minute up the road and driven his own race, but now the other teams have closed the gap, having your teammate back in midfield gives fewer strategy options when it comes to pitstops or holding up another driver. Checo played this role perfectly in '21 when the margins between Max and Lewis were so narrow. Max has this issue now with the McLaren's, he needs a "wingman" up front to help support.
thegreenhell said:
Of the drivers they have I think DR would be the lowest risk to promote. If he struggles there he won't be doing any worse than Perez currently is, and they won't be breaking a new driver by promoting them to the top too soon.
This is what I would also agree with, albeit very harsh on Yuki who has been consistently amongst "best of the rest" this season. Lawson then gets the VCARB drive to benchmark against Yuki. If Danny doesn't deliver then they've bought themselves 6 months to pick between Yuki and Lawson for 2025.nordboy said:
Well, I'm not sure how he managed to hold on to his drive, even for the rest of this season? But I guess the pressure is not going to get any less on him to perform, if they lose the WCC then RB will hold him directly responsible.
It seems very likely they will lose WCC now, even if Checo did improve a little. The McLarens are much improved now and piastri seems to have really found his feet too.TheDeuce said:
It seems very likely they will lose WCC now, even if Checo did improve a little. The McLarens are much improved now and piastri seems to have really found his feet too.
That maybe not the case, LN makes too many mistakes and cannot get the car off the line quickly, but mainly because the other teams are in the race now, Mercedes, Ferrari to some extent, and are taking points from one another.Piastri far better than LN, but not learned how to be quick close behind other cars and get a pass done just yet, it will come, and he very cool headed. Was very quick in clean air, finding his feet yes, not there just yet.
Sadly the early season lead will probably hold out, if MV stays in the box the team obviously b
ked him into for Spa, picks up podiums or top 5,s, with Perez doing similar, might be squeaky bum time towards the end though. Same for drivers championship, it is for MV to lose, only a few DNF will do that, as no single driver looks like taking consistent wins.
With 8 cars that can technically win, I cannot see them being overhauled.
anyoldcardave said:
TheDeuce said:
It seems very likely they will lose WCC now, even if Checo did improve a little. The McLarens are much improved now and piastri seems to have really found his feet too.
That maybe not the case, LN makes too many mistakes and cannot get the car off the line quickly, but mainly because the other teams are in the race now, Mercedes, Ferrari to some extent, and are taking points from one another.Piastri far better than LN, but not learned how to be quick close behind other cars and get a pass done just yet, it will come, and he very cool headed. Was very quick in clean air, finding his feet yes, not there just yet.
Sadly the early season lead will probably hold out, if MV stays in the box the team obviously b
ked him into for Spa, picks up podiums or top 5,s, with Perez doing similar, might be squeaky bum time towards the end though. Same for drivers championship, it is for MV to lose, only a few DNF will do that, as no single driver looks like taking consistent wins.
With 8 cars that can technically win, I cannot see them being overhauled.
But McLaren have been gaining on RBR, the two drivers together outperforming RBR by something like 50 points in the last three races alone. RBR only have a 42 point lead now, so I would say the trajectory is for McLaren to leap frog them.
The problem is that Max is no longer guaranteed to win, Checo isn't even guaranteed to scoop points. Max can't do it all, not now his car is just competitive, no longer totally dominant.
Well the elephant is still in the room.
Hope the team staff don’t have all their bonuses related to team prize money based on WCC finishing position, because it’s not impossible they come 3rd or 4th at this rate.
Going from 2nd on the grid to 8th at the line takes a special kind of special.
Hope the team staff don’t have all their bonuses related to team prize money based on WCC finishing position, because it’s not impossible they come 3rd or 4th at this rate.
Going from 2nd on the grid to 8th at the line takes a special kind of special.
RiseUp said:
Would the answer be that Perez brings more in sponsorship than the gap from 1st to 2nd in the WCC? And I’m sure they’ll take the extra wind tunnel time for finishing 2nd too.
He definitely does, something like $40m direct sponsorship value is linked to him. In addition to that, for the Red Bull drinks brand, he is a Spanish speaking ambassador for that, selling into the very large Spanish speaking world.This is why I'm always quick to point out that he is a very sensible and understandable choice for RBR in commercial terms, despite his performance falling away. But there is a limit to how useless he can continue to be and get away with it - there has to come a point at which he's so bad that he starts to have a net negative influence on the core brand. He can be a bit crap all day long, but he can't continue to be outrageously s
te.Losing the WCC will of course irk the team, but in cold commercial terms, it's really not al that important - especially given the brand isn't linked to road cars.
Sandpit Steve said:
Well the elephant is still in the room.
Hope the team staff don’t have all their bonuses related to team prize money based on WCC finishing position, because it’s not impossible they come 3rd or 4th at this rate.
Going from 2nd on the grid to 8th at the line takes a special kind of special.
Could easily be 3rd or 4th if the car or Perez lose another step relative to Ferrari and/or Merc. I'm thinking 80% chance they'll be at least second, I think McLaren will overtake them and that the pressure on Perez to try and prevent that will probably crumble him at this point. He's clearly not a in a good place as a driver.Hope the team staff don’t have all their bonuses related to team prize money based on WCC finishing position, because it’s not impossible they come 3rd or 4th at this rate.
Going from 2nd on the grid to 8th at the line takes a special kind of special.
If you read between the lines of the communication that was sent within the team yesterday, he hasn't actually been confirmed for the whole of the rest of this season. It merely states that he'll continue after the break at the tracks he's historically done well at. We have Baku and Singapore coming up in a couple of races time, both of which he's won in the past. Baku in particular has always been a strong track for Perez, with two wins and several podiums, including a couple of podiums there in a Force India.
After Singapore is another four week break before the American races, so it could be they are giving him those races he *should* do well at, and then making another decision after that.
After Singapore is another four week break before the American races, so it could be they are giving him those races he *should* do well at, and then making another decision after that.
RiseUp said:
Would the answer be that Perez brings more in sponsorship than the gap from 1st to 2nd in the WCC? And I’m sure they’ll take the extra wind tunnel time for finishing 2nd too.
I will never buy into the theory that Red Bull would give up on the WCC or even risk it on the basis that Perez is bringing sponsorship inThey want to win. If you're a winning team, you can't compromise on anything. The notion of settling for second because the money will still come in would be poisonous to a team like Red Bull.
The answer why he's still there is that there's no one obviously better than him available to replace him. Simple as that.
Muzzer79 said:
RiseUp said:
Would the answer be that Perez brings more in sponsorship than the gap from 1st to 2nd in the WCC? And I’m sure they’ll take the extra wind tunnel time for finishing 2nd too.
I will never buy into the theory that Red Bull would give up on the WCC or even risk it on the basis that Perez is bringing sponsorship inThey want to win. If you're a winning team, you can't compromise on anything. The notion of settling for second because the money will still come in would be poisonous to a team like Red Bull.
The answer why he's still there is that there's no one obviously better than him available to replace him. Simple as that.
The teams owners want to sell billions of cans of red bull. Of course corporate thinking comes into it.
TheDeuce said:
You're talking about the team - the team want to win, sure.
The teams owners want to sell billions of cans of red bull. Of course corporate thinking comes into it.
That’s been the case with motor racing since whenever, Perez brings money to the table and there’s no way he’s leaving this season. His form has been very poor though, it may just be a bad run or that Max has managed to wring even more performance out of the car. The teams owners want to sell billions of cans of red bull. Of course corporate thinking comes into it.
Blue62 said:
TheDeuce said:
You're talking about the team - the team want to win, sure.
The teams owners want to sell billions of cans of red bull. Of course corporate thinking comes into it.
That’s been the case with motor racing since whenever, Perez brings money to the table and there’s no way he’s leaving this season. His form has been very poor though, it may just be a bad run or that Max has managed to wring even more performance out of the car. The teams owners want to sell billions of cans of red bull. Of course corporate thinking comes into it.
deadslow said:
Blue62 said:
TheDeuce said:
You're talking about the team - the team want to win, sure.
The teams owners want to sell billions of cans of red bull. Of course corporate thinking comes into it.
That’s been the case with motor racing since whenever, Perez brings money to the table and there’s no way he’s leaving this season. His form has been very poor though, it may just be a bad run or that Max has managed to wring even more performance out of the car. The teams owners want to sell billions of cans of red bull. Of course corporate thinking comes into it.
There's definitely a pattern!
deadslow said:
there is, indeed, a pattern. You go up against Max in the same car, you will quickly/eventually get obliterated. Bernie Collins made the same remark at the weekend.
Both wrong then - DR was never 'obliterated' but he was unhappy enough to leave. That disproves the cause for the pattern as being down to Max's driving ability.I'm sure getting pummelled doesn't help of course.. But I don't think that's the whole story.
TheDeuce said:
deadslow said:
there is, indeed, a pattern. You go up against Max in the same car, you will quickly/eventually get obliterated. Bernie Collins made the same remark at the weekend.
Both wrong then - DR was never 'obliterated' but he was unhappy enough to leave. That disproves the cause for the pattern as being down to Max's driving ability.I'm sure getting pummelled doesn't help of course.. But I don't think that's the whole story.
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