Sportsmanship - Does it exist in F1?
Discussion
paulguitar said:
excellent naivety @paulguitar 
t has been repeatedly debunked, Sparta. 
"We weren't racing Kimi, we were racing Fernando"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula...
deadslow said:
paulguitar said:
.........
Alonso escalated things by blocking Hamilton and then took it into the stratosphere by blackmailing the team.
........
Alonso didn't blackmail anyone. He had a blow-out argument with RD and threatened to tell all, but apologised 10 minutes later. Alonso escalated things by blocking Hamilton and then took it into the stratosphere by blackmailing the team.
........
RD knew that if Alonso would threaten him with that, it would be used again. It was better coming from the team than Alonso, so he went to the FIA.
I'm a little surprised (well, I'm not actually) how the sportsmanship thread has turned into another Hamilton thread.
DOCG said:
Henson said:
DOCG said:
Henson said:
DOCG said:
You said yourself that such behaviour would be "fascinating", yet refuse to accept the possibility of far more likely events. Very irrational.
You make things up on a discussion forum. And then accuse others of being irrational.
Okay.
DOCG said:
Just look at how he nearly drove Coulthard off the track at Monza when he had a clear run on him.
Your actual words. What you claimed to happen - didn’t.
You made it up.
Muzzer79 said:
deadslow said:
paulguitar said:
.........
Alonso escalated things by blocking Hamilton and then took it into the stratosphere by blackmailing the team.
........
Alonso didn't blackmail anyone. He had a blow-out argument with RD and threatened to tell all, but apologised 10 minutes later. Alonso escalated things by blocking Hamilton and then took it into the stratosphere by blackmailing the team.
........
RD knew that if Alonso would threaten him with that, it would be used again. It was better coming from the team than Alonso, so he went to the FIA.
I'm a little surprised (well, I'm not actually) how the sportsmanship thread has turned into another Hamilton thread.
paulguitar said:
Bo_apex said:
(quote) Then years later I found out that it was Hamilton who broke the internal team agreement to give Alonso the optimum qualifying lap (it alternated race-by-race), but the media never said a word about it! Alonso was simply portrayed as the villain for the rest of the season.(quote)
Hamilton started that by going against the team agreement for who went out first. One of the few genuinely dodgy things he's done in a very long career.Alonso escalated things by blocking Hamilton and then took it into the stratosphere by blackmailing the team.
Alonso was under immense pressure with Hamilton being at least as quick and he wanted/requested the team to force Hamilton to act as a number two driver. The team declined and Alonso lost his marbles.
& if taking turns was Introduced at Hungary you have to ask why Ron (who supposedly favoured Hamilton) gave first dibs to Alonso, even though Alonso was behind in the championship at that point- which im presuming is why Hamilton gave Ron an earful & ignored it (along with Hamilton becoming increasingly annoyed at Alonso's behind the scene shenanigans- such as the brown paper envelopes)
deadslow said:
Alonso didn't blackmail anyone. He had a blow-out argument with RD and threatened to tell all, but apologised 10 minutes later. Hamilton actually ratted out his own team-mate,Alonso, to the stewards, RD actually ratted out the whole team to Mosely, but it was all johnny foreigner's fault. Whodathunkit.
Do come up with a simple explanation of how LH, who had zero knowledge of the private conversation between FA and RD, managed to tell all to the stewards. Is he a mind-reader as well as the most successful F1 driver ever? My source is an ex McLaren engineer.MustangGT said:
deadslow said:
Alonso didn't blackmail anyone. He had a blow-out argument with RD and threatened to tell all, but apologised 10 minutes later. Hamilton actually ratted out his own team-mate,Alonso, to the stewards, RD actually ratted out the whole team to Mosely, but it was all johnny foreigner's fault. Whodathunkit.
Do come up with a simple explanation of how LH, who had zero knowledge of the private conversation between FA and RD, managed to tell all to the stewards. Is he a mind-reader as well as the most successful F1 driver ever? My source is an ex McLaren engineer.
Hammo did a bit of gamesmanship on Fred. Fred did a better bit of gamesmanship back. Fair enough. Touche, you would have thought. But Hammo blubbed to all and sundry and proceeded to grass his team-mate to the stewards. Fred was penalised and blew his top, precipitating the stupid mess. deadslow said:
MustangGT said:
deadslow said:
Alonso didn't blackmail anyone. He had a blow-out argument with RD and threatened to tell all, but apologised 10 minutes later. Hamilton actually ratted out his own team-mate,Alonso, to the stewards, RD actually ratted out the whole team to Mosely, but it was all johnny foreigner's fault. Whodathunkit.
Do come up with a simple explanation of how LH, who had zero knowledge of the private conversation between FA and RD, managed to tell all to the stewards. Is he a mind-reader as well as the most successful F1 driver ever? My source is an ex McLaren engineer. Hammo did a bit of gamesmanship on Fred. Fred did a better bit of gamesmanship back. Fair enough. Touche, you would have thought. But Hammo blubbed to all and sundry and proceeded to grass his team-mate to the stewards. Fred was penalised and blew his top, precipitating the stupid mess. And RD didn't rat his team, he did damage limitation by being honest with the authority and telling them the truth. He faced the music and kudos to him for that.
Siao said:
What did Hamilton blubb to the stewards? Which incident are you referring to?
And RD didn't rat his team, he did damage limitation by being honest with the authority and telling them the truth. He faced the music and kudos to him for that.
Fred delayed him in quali, as you will know. Hammo (and his dad) blubbed everywhere and ratted to the syewards to get fred a penalty.And RD didn't rat his team, he did damage limitation by being honest with the authority and telling them the truth. He faced the music and kudos to him for that.
I don't agree RD did the right thing. After the two drivers started 'mixing it' RD ought to have managed them a LOT better. There was no need for him to go 'full confession' to the FIA - he could have sorted out the spygate stuff internally. Remember, that year, Renault did exactly the same thing and had possession of the Macca tech book, but zero action was taken.
Ron didn't have many friends, and a proper enemy in Mosely, so why offer the team up for the slaughter? Madness.
deadslow said:
Ron didn't have many friends, and a proper enemy in Mosely, so why offer the team up for the slaughter? Madness.
Because Alonso threatened to take more Spygate info to the FIA. Ron was just pre-empting that and neutralising Alonso. It would have been much worse for the team if they'd tried to cover it up and Alonso had gone to Mosley instead of Ron.thegreenhell said:
deadslow said:
Ron didn't have many friends, and a proper enemy in Mosely, so why offer the team up for the slaughter? Madness.
Because Alonso threatened to take more Spygate info to the FIA. Ron was just pre-empting that and neutralising Alonso. It would have been much worse for the team if they'd tried to cover it up and Alonso had gone to Mosley instead of Ron.Hey ho, others take a different view, and that's fine.
deadslow said:
Siao said:
What did Hamilton blubb to the stewards? Which incident are you referring to?
And RD didn't rat his team, he did damage limitation by being honest with the authority and telling them the truth. He faced the music and kudos to him for that.
Fred delayed him in quali, as you will know. Hammo (and his dad) blubbed everywhere and ratted to the syewards to get fred a penalty.And RD didn't rat his team, he did damage limitation by being honest with the authority and telling them the truth. He faced the music and kudos to him for that.
I don't agree RD did the right thing. After the two drivers started 'mixing it' RD ought to have managed them a LOT better. There was no need for him to go 'full confession' to the FIA - he could have sorted out the spygate stuff internally. Remember, that year, Renault did exactly the same thing and had possession of the Macca tech book, but zero action was taken.
Ron didn't have many friends, and a proper enemy in Mosely, so why offer the team up for the slaughter? Madness.
Funny you mention the Renault thing. Even though it was not the same case, Renault did exactly the same thing as RD did; go to McLaren and FIA to inform them of the rogue engineer that stole Macca info and brought them to Renault. They worked with them and the lawyers to remove all info from their IT systems and ensure that nothing was used.
https://www.racefans.net/2007/12/07/the-full-verdi...
deadslow said:
MustangGT said:
deadslow said:
Alonso didn't blackmail anyone. He had a blow-out argument with RD and threatened to tell all, but apologised 10 minutes later. Hamilton actually ratted out his own team-mate,Alonso, to the stewards, RD actually ratted out the whole team to Mosely, but it was all johnny foreigner's fault. Whodathunkit.
Do come up with a simple explanation of how LH, who had zero knowledge of the private conversation between FA and RD, managed to tell all to the stewards. Is he a mind-reader as well as the most successful F1 driver ever? My source is an ex McLaren engineer. Hammo did a bit of gamesmanship on Fred. Fred did a better bit of gamesmanship back. Fair enough. Touche, you would have thought. But Hammo blubbed to all and sundry and proceeded to grass his team-mate to the stewards. Fred was penalised and blew his top, precipitating the stupid mess. Let me guess, nothing, but you seized a chance to slag off Hamilton anyway.
paulguitar said:
As usual, incorrect, Sparta.
Hamilton was better than Alonso, and nobody had expected that. (Aside from Hamilton and possibly his dad).
It was inconvenient for McLaren that Hamilton was pretty much instantly the class of the field. If he'd been 'merely' an excellent backup to Alosno, as everyone had expected from him in his rookie season, they'd have had far fewer headaches. The situation was unprecedented and remains so.
Agree with most of this. Not sure about Hamilton being better than Alonso, but certainly Hamilton's performance was completely unexpected and totally unprecedented, and gave McL a major and unexpected headache.Hamilton was better than Alonso, and nobody had expected that. (Aside from Hamilton and possibly his dad).
It was inconvenient for McLaren that Hamilton was pretty much instantly the class of the field. If he'd been 'merely' an excellent backup to Alosno, as everyone had expected from him in his rookie season, they'd have had far fewer headaches. The situation was unprecedented and remains so.
Personally I think they completely mismanaged the situation, but hey, they were a team in decline, we didn't know then but we do now.
Hamilton is/was hyper competitive (as many of them are), he's on record as saying he's the most competitive person he knows.
These people are not great sportsmen imo. I think Hamilton is a clean driver, he's definitely not a Senna in that regard.
The old days are in the past of course, no point in trying to compare.
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