Sportsmanship - Does it exist in F1?

[paulguitar]

TwentyFive said:

paulguitar said:

I think you'll find that was Peter Collins.

It was! My mistake!

[Bo_apex]

paulguitar said:

Bo_apex said:

philasia - are you really trying to compare the generosity of Stirling Moss with LH losing in AD and not sticking his bottom lip out ?

Referring to Hamilton's extraordinarily dignified behaviour after the disgrace of AD as 'not sticking his bottom lip out' is properly pathetic, even for you.

Trying to draw a parallel with Hamilton's "extraordinarily dignified behaviour" in AD, and the noble actions of Moss is desperate, even for you and philasia.

Hamilton only kept his bottom lip tucked in because Anthony had a word in his ear before the microphone appeared.

It was a very smart move by Anthony. Always there when his boy needs him.

[ettore]

coppice said:

It's tempting but misleading to mourn a lost era of gentlemanly behaviour on track. I saw my first GP in 1971 and people were doing the same about Fifties racing . But anybody who tries to persuade me that Mike Hawthorn was some carefree knight of the track will get short shrift - this was the man who was the principal cause of the Le Mans disaster in 1955 , yet raced on to win and wondered why his champagne swigging victory celebrations didn't go down to well...

I'm not sure that this is representative of Hawthorn at all, who was traumatised by it all. I don't think he was the 50's epitome of sportsmanship, that was much better represented by Moss (and Collins amongst others) but you're being unfair on MH.

The Musso situation also seems to have been largely of his own making at the time, albeit stoked by the usual Italian press nonsense. The talk of bad blood was stoked by his girlfriend after his death. Collins had an immaculate reputation within Ferrari in particular, most clearly evidenced by his relationship with Enzo.

I do think there was a different sporting ethic in the 50's and into the 60's - it wasn't universal by any means but they were a generation formed during a different time, who had lived through war, and who faced death every time they competed.

[paulguitar]

Bo_apex said:

paulguitar said:

Bo_apex said:

philasia - are you really trying to compare the generosity of Stirling Moss with LH losing in AD and not sticking his bottom lip out ?

Referring to Hamilton's extraordinarily dignified behaviour after the disgrace of AD as 'not sticking his bottom lip out' is properly pathetic, even for you.

Trying to draw a parallel with Hamilton's "extraordinarily dignified behaviour" in AD, and the noble actions of Moss is desperate, even for you and philasia.

Hamilton only kept his bottom lip tucked in because Anthony had a word in his ear before the microphone appeared.

It was a very smart move by Anthony. Always there when his boy needs him.

You're not even waffling to the right person.

[PhilAsia]

paulguitar said:

Bo_apex said:

philasia - are you really trying to compare the generosity of Stirling Moss with LH losing in AD and not sticking his bottom lip out ?

Referring to Hamilton's extraordinarily dignified behaviour after the disgrace of AD as 'not sticking his bottom lip out' is properly pathetic, even for you.

Don't bother yourself with him Paul. The crayon chewing is taking its toll on his ability to think straight.

[paulguitar]

PhilAsia said:

paulguitar said:

Bo_apex said:

philasia - are you really trying to compare the generosity of Stirling Moss with LH losing in AD and not sticking his bottom lip out ?

Referring to Hamilton's extraordinarily dignified behaviour after the disgrace of AD as 'not sticking his bottom lip out' is properly pathetic, even for you.

Don't bother yourself with him Paul. The crayon chewing is taking its toll on his ability to think straight.

Yup.

[TwentyFive]

Bo_apex said:

Hamilton only kept his bottom lip tucked in because Anthony had a word in his ear before the microphone appeared.

It was a very smart move by Anthony. Always there when his boy needs him.

Yes, Anthony was there. Yet so far as I can remember from the live footage you weren't? So how you know that Lewis would have lost it without that conversation is remarkable.

Lewis was incredibly dignified and that applies regardless of that was said to him privately.

FWIW I don't think he would have lost it. He stayed in the car to compose himself and then got out. The true measure a champion isn't shown in how they act when they win, it is shown in how they act when they lose. Hamilton acted like a champion that day. Many wouldn't.

[coppice]

ettore said:

I'm not sure that this is representative of Hawthorn at all, who was traumatised by it all. I don't think he was the 50's epitome of sportsmanship, that was much better represented by Moss (and Collins amongst others) but you're being unfair on MH.

.

I think history has been very unfair in blaming Lance Macklin - it was Hawthorn's braking for a pitstop in front of the Healey which triggered the accident .

[Bo_apex]

paulguitar said:

Bo_apex said:

paulguitar said:

Bo_apex said:

philasia - are you really trying to compare the generosity of Stirling Moss with LH losing in AD and not sticking his bottom lip out ?

Referring to Hamilton's extraordinarily dignified behaviour after the disgrace of AD as 'not sticking his bottom lip out' is properly pathetic, even for you.

Trying to draw a parallel with Hamilton's "extraordinarily dignified behaviour" in AD, and the noble actions of Moss is desperate, even for you and philasia.

Hamilton only kept his bottom lip tucked in because Anthony had a word in his ear before the microphone appeared.

It was a very smart move by Anthony. Always there when his boy needs him.

You're not even waffling to the right person.

You're normally quite happy answering on behalf of philasia

and vice versa

Cute

[PhilAsia]

Bo_apex said:

paulguitar said:

Bo_apex said:

paulguitar said:

Bo_apex said:

philasia - are you really trying to compare the generosity of Stirling Moss with LH losing in AD and not sticking his bottom lip out ?

Referring to Hamilton's extraordinarily dignified behaviour after the disgrace of AD as 'not sticking his bottom lip out' is properly pathetic, even for you.

Trying to draw a parallel with Hamilton's "extraordinarily dignified behaviour" in AD, and the noble actions of Moss is desperate, even for you and philasia.

Hamilton only kept his bottom lip tucked in because Anthony had a word in his ear before the microphone appeared.

It was a very smart move by Anthony. Always there when his boy needs him.

You're not even waffling to the right person.

You're normally quite happy answering on behalf of philasia

and vice versa

Cute

The thing is: What is your jealousy really trying to tell you BA?

[ettore]

coppice said:

ettore said:

I'm not sure that this is representative of Hawthorn at all, who was traumatised by it all. I don't think he was the 50's epitome of sportsmanship, that was much better represented by Moss (and Collins amongst others) but you're being unfair on MH.

.

I think history has been very unfair in blaming Lance Macklin - it was Hawthorn's braking for a pitstop in front of the Healey which triggered the accident .

I'd agree with that, as it's also been unfair on Hawthorn and, indeed, Levegh. Macklin and Hawthorn both traumatised for the consequences of a racing accident.

[Wills2]

fizzwheel said:

Stirling Moss defending Mike Hawthorn to reverse a disqualification that the stewards were about to apply in 1958 which meant Moss lost that years championship to Hawthorn springs to mind.

Different era, different times, but that one always springs to mind when this sort of thing is discussed.

Can't see any driver in the modern era doing anything like that now though.

I can't see them being allowed or lasting very long if they did now, the sport isn't a sport anymore too much $$$ at stake for drivers to go off message and I mean for them and the teams.

I think the fact they were risking life and limb every race would have created a bond/respect that doesn't happen today, it's very much FU these days.

That's why you could never imagine Max saying "I'm not winning it like this" in AD21 or any other driver for that matter.

Edited by Wills2 on Tuesday 19th March 18:09

[entropy]

coppice said:

ettore said:

I'm not sure that this is representative of Hawthorn at all, who was traumatised by it all. I don't think he was the 50's epitome of sportsmanship, that was much better represented by Moss (and Collins amongst others) but you're being unfair on MH.

.

I think history has been very unfair in blaming Lance Macklin - it was Hawthorn's braking for a pitstop in front of the Healey which triggered the accident .

From what I remember from a BBC4 documentary it was racing incident and unfair to blame either driver. Hawthorn was in a dual with Fango overtook Macklin then slowed down to enter the pits.

It was the nature of pit entry at the time, in a similar way near-misses occurring at the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve more regularly since DRS - faster car pulls out to overtake a slower car at the end of the back straight, the former retakes the racing line and suddenly slows down to enter the pits, driver behind needs lightning reflexes to avoid a collision.

[Bo_apex]

PhilAsia said:

Bo_apex said:

paulguitar said:

Bo_apex said:

paulguitar said:

Bo_apex said:

philasia - are you really trying to compare the generosity of Stirling Moss with LH losing in AD and not sticking his bottom lip out ?

Referring to Hamilton's extraordinarily dignified behaviour after the disgrace of AD as 'not sticking his bottom lip out' is properly pathetic, even for you.

Trying to draw a parallel with Hamilton's "extraordinarily dignified behaviour" in AD, and the noble actions of Moss is desperate, even for you and philasia.

Hamilton only kept his bottom lip tucked in because Anthony had a word in his ear before the microphone appeared.

It was a very smart move by Anthony. Always there when his boy needs him.

You're not even waffling to the right person.

You're normally quite happy answering on behalf of philasia

and vice versa

Cute

The thing is: What is your jealousy really trying to tell you BA?

Jealousy ? Excellent

Sounds like you're missing a good ole fashioned sausagefest in Soho.
Grab your lycra shorts.

[PhilAsia]

Bo_apex said:

PhilAsia said:

Bo_apex said:

paulguitar said:

Bo_apex said:

paulguitar said:

Bo_apex said:

philasia - are you really trying to compare the generosity of Stirling Moss with LH losing in AD and not sticking his bottom lip out ?

Referring to Hamilton's extraordinarily dignified behaviour after the disgrace of AD as 'not sticking his bottom lip out' is properly pathetic, even for you.

Trying to draw a parallel with Hamilton's "extraordinarily dignified behaviour" in AD, and the noble actions of Moss is desperate, even for you and philasia.

Hamilton only kept his bottom lip tucked in because Anthony had a word in his ear before the microphone appeared.

It was a very smart move by Anthony. Always there when his boy needs him.

You're not even waffling to the right person.

You're normally quite happy answering on behalf of philasia

and vice versa

Cute

The thing is: What is your jealousy really trying to tell you BA?

Jealousy ? Excellent

Sounds like you're missing a good ole fashioned sausagefest in Soho.
Grab your lycra shorts.

Ah..., I see that you feel someone else is receiving the attention or adoration that you want for yourself. In some way, the other person appears more desirable.

Standard lashing out.

[Bo_apex]

PhilAsia said:

Bo_apex said:

PhilAsia said:

Bo_apex said:

paulguitar said:

Bo_apex said:

paulguitar said:

Bo_apex said:

philasia - are you really trying to compare the generosity of Stirling Moss with LH losing in AD and not sticking his bottom lip out ?

Referring to Hamilton's extraordinarily dignified behaviour after the disgrace of AD as 'not sticking his bottom lip out' is properly pathetic, even for you.

Trying to draw a parallel with Hamilton's "extraordinarily dignified behaviour" in AD, and the noble actions of Moss is desperate, even for you and philasia.

Hamilton only kept his bottom lip tucked in because Anthony had a word in his ear before the microphone appeared.

It was a very smart move by Anthony. Always there when his boy needs him.

You're not even waffling to the right person.

You're normally quite happy answering on behalf of philasia

and vice versa

Cute

The thing is: What is your jealousy really trying to tell you BA?

Jealousy ? Excellent

Sounds like you're missing a good ole fashioned sausagefest in Soho.
Grab your lycra shorts.

Ah..., I see that you feel someone else is receiving the attention or adoration that you want for yourself. In some way, the other person appears more desirable.

Standard lashing out.

As the OP you've now exceeded your friction circle.

Please report to Peter Windsor

[davidd]

TwentyFive said:

Yes, Anthony was there. Yet so far as I can remember from the live footage you weren't? So how you know that Lewis would have lost it without that conversation is remarkable.

Lewis was incredibly dignified and that applies regardless of that was said to him privately.

FWIW I don't think he would have lost it. He stayed in the car to compose himself and then got out. The true measure a champion isn't shown in how they act when they win, it is shown in how they act when they lose. Hamilton acted like a champion that day. Many wouldn't.

Max, Jeddah podium 2021... is an example of how not to do it.

[PhilAsia]

Bo_apex said:

PhilAsia said:

Bo_apex said:

PhilAsia said:

Bo_apex said:

paulguitar said:

Bo_apex said:

paulguitar said:

Bo_apex said:

philasia - are you really trying to compare the generosity of Stirling Moss with LH losing in AD and not sticking his bottom lip out ?

Referring to Hamilton's extraordinarily dignified behaviour after the disgrace of AD as 'not sticking his bottom lip out' is properly pathetic, even for you.

Trying to draw a parallel with Hamilton's "extraordinarily dignified behaviour" in AD, and the noble actions of Moss is desperate, even for you and philasia.

Hamilton only kept his bottom lip tucked in because Anthony had a word in his ear before the microphone appeared.

It was a very smart move by Anthony. Always there when his boy needs him.

You're not even waffling to the right person.

You're normally quite happy answering on behalf of philasia

and vice versa

Cute

The thing is: What is your jealousy really trying to tell you BA?

Jealousy ? Excellent

Sounds like you're missing a good ole fashioned sausagefest in Soho.
Grab your lycra shorts.

Ah..., I see that you feel someone else is receiving the attention or adoration that you want for yourself. In some way, the other person appears more desirable.

Standard lashing out.

As the OP you've now exceeded your friction circle.

Please report to Peter Windsor

Got me there BA. I'm not familiar with gay vocabulary, so could you please explain.

[coppice]

You need to bone up (ooh err) on your tyre physics .

[Bo_apex]

coppice said:

You need to bone up (ooh err) on your tyre physics .