Hulk to Haas

[What The Deuces]

HustleRussell said:

What The Deuces said:

Its a sad state when a team chooses a driver based on their likely accident cost rather than pace. Would like to see the cost cap somehow amended to exclude accident damage and the cost of replacing like for like parts.

Hulkenberg hasn't been signed based solely on his likely accident cost. He has been signed because the team think he will deliver at least as many points as the other available drivers whilst wrecking fewer cars.

Also if you amended the cost cap as you suggest, the consequence is predictable.

Erm, that's what I said lol

As for the cost cap rules, in principle it could be administered correctly to avoid abuse.

[HustleRussell]

What The Deuces said:

As for the cost cap rules, in principle it could be administered correctly to avoid abuse.

Let me stop you right there

[What The Deuces]

HustleRussell said:

Let me stop you right there

To be fair, the rules have been administered correctly. RB went over the spend and have been through a processed and punished as per the published rules, or did I miss anything?

[Tazar]

Hulkenberg doesn’t excite me and I’m not sure why he does for some. Steady pair of hands isn’t the recipe for success but what does Haas have to offer a quick driver.
Maybe I’m missing something but why does Haas deserve to be in F1 rather than Andretti?

[HustleRussell]

Tazar said:

Hulkenberg doesn’t excite me and I’m not sure why he does for some. Steady pair of hands isn’t the recipe for success but what does Haas have to offer a quick driver.
Maybe I’m missing something but why does Haas deserve to be in F1 rather than Andretti?

Haas and Andretti are just brands, the team is the several hundred people who go to work with that brand on their lanyard. An important distinction when we're talking about 'deserves', because the team currently known as 'Haas', and the hundreds of people who go to work with 'Haas' on their lanyards, actually currently exist and have done for some years now.

[C70R]

HustleRussell said:

Tazar said:

Hulkenberg doesn’t excite me and I’m not sure why he does for some. Steady pair of hands isn’t the recipe for success but what does Haas have to offer a quick driver.
Maybe I’m missing something but why does Haas deserve to be in F1 rather than Andretti?

Haas and Andretti are just brands, the team is the several hundred people who go to work with that brand on their lanyard. An important distinction when we're talking about 'deserves', because the team currently known as 'Haas', and the hundreds of people who go to work with 'Haas' on their lanyards, actually currently exist and have done for some years now.

Haas are an actual constructor, aren't they (Ferrari support notwithstanding)?

I know they bought a load of Marussia assets (like the factory), but I thought they were effectively a 'proper' team (unlike the branded teams like AM etc.).

Edited by C70R on Tuesday 29th November 15:38

[What The Deuces]

C70R said:

HustleRussell said:

Tazar said:

Hulkenberg doesn’t excite me and I’m not sure why he does for some. Steady pair of hands isn’t the recipe for success but what does Haas have to offer a quick driver.
Maybe I’m missing something but why does Haas deserve to be in F1 rather than Andretti?

Haas and Andretti are just brands, the team is the several hundred people who go to work with that brand on their lanyard. An important distinction when we're talking about 'deserves', because the team currently known as 'Haas', and the hundreds of people who go to work with 'Haas' on their lanyards, actually currently exist and have done for some years now.

Haas are an actual constructor, aren't they (Ferrari support notwithstanding)?

I know they bought a load of Marussia assets (like the factory), but I thought they were effectively a 'proper' team (unlike the branded teams like AM etc.).

Edited by C70R on Tuesday 29th November 15:38

Theyre not really much different

The Chassis for Haas is actually built by Dallara at Dallara, and the first build of the new car is at Dallara too, the car is designed at Maranello and they use the Ferrari wind tunnel

Gene Haas just stumps up the cash and pays commercial staff, operational staff and some design staff, they even use call off design staff from Dallara for busy times.

[HustleRussell]

C70R said:

HustleRussell said:

Tazar said:

Hulkenberg doesn’t excite me and I’m not sure why he does for some. Steady pair of hands isn’t the recipe for success but what does Haas have to offer a quick driver.
Maybe I’m missing something but why does Haas deserve to be in F1 rather than Andretti?

Haas and Andretti are just brands, the team is the several hundred people who go to work with that brand on their lanyard. An important distinction when we're talking about 'deserves', because the team currently known as 'Haas', and the hundreds of people who go to work with 'Haas' on their lanyards, actually currently exist and have done for some years now.

Haas are an actual constructor, aren't they (Ferrari support notwithstanding)?

I know they bought a load of Marussia assets (like the factory), but I thought they were effectively a 'proper' team (unlike the branded teams like AM etc.).

You can substitute 'Haas' and 'Andretti' in my post for Alpine or Mercedes or whoever. My post is about what a 'team' is in response to Tazar's comment about what a team 'deserves'.

[entropy]

Tazar said:

Maybe I’m missing something but why does Haas deserve to be in F1 rather than Andretti?

Gene Haas runs CNC company Haas Automation.

Not sure what you're getting but should a clothing or soft drinks companies deserve to be in F1? or is it having a racing tradition means you deserve to be in F1?

[Tazar]

I may be old fashioned but shouldn’t a team who enters F1 have the ambition to be Champions ?

I don’t see that at Haas. Admittedly I’m an outsider and Haas may be making efforts in every direction to be winners but I’m sure a team such as Andretti might want to continue their winning record.

I wouldn’t object to a team who pulls the best components from outside sources , literally a kit car if the regulations allowed it, if it provided another winner.

Ideally the 20 cars/drivers on the grid should be capable of winning and not content to be mid field or tail enders

[SpudLink]

Has there ever been a time when every team on the grid aspirated to be champions? Not in the 4 decades I’ve been watching.
When cars were less reliable the teams lower down the grid could hope for the occasional podium or win during a season. But there has always been a hierarchy of elite teams, midfield teams with ambition to join the elite, and those happy to be in top tier motorsport.

[entropy]

SpudLink said:

Has there ever been a time when every team on the grid aspirated to be champions? Not in the 4 decades I’ve been watching.
When cars were less reliable the teams lower down the grid could hope for the occasional podium or win during a season. But there has always been a hierarchy of elite teams, midfield teams with ambition to join the elite, and those happy to be in top tier motorsport.

Agreed. I think part of it is that F1 has become spoilt by having 20 homogenised teams with an ultra-competitive midfield, reliable cars and points easier to come by for top-10 finishes; fans yearning for something that may or may not be there, whether if it is a sense of idealism or rose-tinted specs.

The opposing view to Tazar's can be found on another thread but I think Tazar's perspective is more applicable to manufacturers more likely to have larger coffers than teams themselves. In the past decade there has been critics of Renault from RBR employees such as Adrien Newey and journalists like Stuart Coddling of GP Racing magazine of being a manufacturer of lacking ambition and all too happy to be in F1.

[trackdemon]

I don't think F1 has ever had a time when every team on the grid were genuinely expecting to be able to compete at the front; there were some truly rubbish teams making the grid and being generally a mobile chicane through the 70's & 80's. We probably have the closest grid in terms of lap delta P1-P20 than we've seen for a long time. It's simply impossible for every team on the grid to have a realistic tilt at the championship, you only need to look at how long Renault & McLaren have been trying and I'm fairly sure they'd both definitely like to be at the top. AT are their to serve a purpose, Williams we all know their troubles, Haas is a marketing tool which is probably quite fun to run now it's possible for well run teams to turn a profit under the budget cap.