What do you think's going on at Mercedes right now then?
Discussion
angrymoby said:
Schumacher fans will say the above ...everyone else will say it's his lack of number one status (i doubt Alonso has that contractually at AM) & not being able to pound around Maranello for millions of laps (no one can doubt his work ethic)
I go with the latter
Apart from his peers of course, who all go with the former.I go with the latter
But what would they know?
Muzzer79 said:
HustleRussell said:
Apart from being old, Schumacher was coming back from both an extended period where he hadn't raced and an injury.
Leaving the sport on grooved tyres and then returning on slicks. One year on Bridgestones and then adapting to Pirelli tyres, which completely changed the shape of the races, at 42...
I very much doubt there was a public expectation from MSC or the team that Michael was going to out-perform the young gun.
I expect Michael privately thought he might fare better than he did but I think Michael was very brave to come back, and climbed a mountain during those years. Obviously his value to the team was far greater than the driving alone, and he is one of the handful of people who get credited with the its ongoing success.
If he couldn't cut it, he shouldn't have come back or should have cut his tenure short.Leaving the sport on grooved tyres and then returning on slicks. One year on Bridgestones and then adapting to Pirelli tyres, which completely changed the shape of the races, at 42...
I very much doubt there was a public expectation from MSC or the team that Michael was going to out-perform the young gun.
I expect Michael privately thought he might fare better than he did but I think Michael was very brave to come back, and climbed a mountain during those years. Obviously his value to the team was far greater than the driving alone, and he is one of the handful of people who get credited with the its ongoing success.
Mercedes didn't pay him $20m-odd to be the second driver. They paid him to lead the team and out-perform the car. He failed, at least at the second part of that.
I'm sure his presence drove the team to some degree; working with "the great" Michael Schumacher and all that. His team ethic was also not in question.
He is undoubtedly a part of Mercedes' story but to credit him for any significant part, let alone being a cornerstone, of Mercedes' subsequent success as some people do is a fallacy.
Just adding to this two reasons for me that merc struggles goes back the the earlier point of sealing the floor. The Rb and Aston sparked way more down the straights that the merc on both the front and rear blocks but when going through the corners the ride high of both was higher. On the tv clips you could see this too the rear of the car was lower down the straight, but crucially the front of the front of the car stayed the same height. Then in lower speed corners the front was lower and the rear higher. The car appear to pivot around the drivers cog. This is sealing the floor of the car to deliver optimum down force.
I think they achieve this by better controlling the aero wake from the front wheels. In a straight line merc does not have this issue, but in a corner they lose out as there are no side pods or ways to control the dirty air coming off the tyre. I assume it hits the body work and travels down under the floor and causes and imbalance on one side of the floor. This will then kill the opposing rear tyre. In testing Hamilton I think proved this on the second day when the rear was sliding around all over the place.
What can they do to fix?? If they can control the tyre dirty air better which the undercut side pods do the. They can go in that direction and become a red bull copy, but there has to be another more radical solutions in the regs.
I found last weeks race a snooze fest. Occasionally a few good over takes, but DRS is pointless. It looks like all the team are now creating dirty air at the rear again to negate the advantage it should give. The racing spectacle is getting worse by the year.
I think they achieve this by better controlling the aero wake from the front wheels. In a straight line merc does not have this issue, but in a corner they lose out as there are no side pods or ways to control the dirty air coming off the tyre. I assume it hits the body work and travels down under the floor and causes and imbalance on one side of the floor. This will then kill the opposing rear tyre. In testing Hamilton I think proved this on the second day when the rear was sliding around all over the place.
What can they do to fix?? If they can control the tyre dirty air better which the undercut side pods do the. They can go in that direction and become a red bull copy, but there has to be another more radical solutions in the regs.
I found last weeks race a snooze fest. Occasionally a few good over takes, but DRS is pointless. It looks like all the team are now creating dirty air at the rear again to negate the advantage it should give. The racing spectacle is getting worse by the year.
All this Schumacher discuss over a comment from Sparta… the only thing Sparta ever does here is post digs at Lewis and try and get a response from others. People like HE may do the same (as some Lewis fans also do to Max fans) but at least HE and some other Max fans actually debate other stuff.
HustleRussell said:
It's obviously not at all fair to compare Schumacher to other drivers by his unretirement years.
Apart from being old, Schumacher was coming back from both an extended period where he hadn't raced and an injury.
Leaving the sport on grooved tyres and then returning on slicks. One year on Bridgestones and then adapting to Pirelli tyres, which completely changed the shape of the races, at 42...
I very much doubt there was a public expectation from MSC or the team that Michael was going to out-perform the young gun.
I expect Michael privately thought he might fare better than he did but I think Michael was very brave to come back, and climbed a mountain during those years. Obviously his value to the team was far greater than the driving alone, and he is one of the handful of people who get credited with the its ongoing success.
Alonso's a different thing entirely. Doesn't appear to have ever even contemplated retirement, raced every year and never slowed down, no kids etc.
Completely agree with this.Apart from being old, Schumacher was coming back from both an extended period where he hadn't raced and an injury.
Leaving the sport on grooved tyres and then returning on slicks. One year on Bridgestones and then adapting to Pirelli tyres, which completely changed the shape of the races, at 42...
I very much doubt there was a public expectation from MSC or the team that Michael was going to out-perform the young gun.
I expect Michael privately thought he might fare better than he did but I think Michael was very brave to come back, and climbed a mountain during those years. Obviously his value to the team was far greater than the driving alone, and he is one of the handful of people who get credited with the its ongoing success.
Alonso's a different thing entirely. Doesn't appear to have ever even contemplated retirement, raced every year and never slowed down, no kids etc.
Re: Alonso - no kids and magic pills seems to work wonders
Muzzer79 said:
Sparta will be along in a minute to explain to you how nobody can touch Schumacher, principally because he bought pizza for his mechanics when they were testing at Fiorano.
Pizza-power.......they key to any multi-championship bid
We should never underestimate the power of pizzaPizza-power.......they key to any multi-championship bid
sparta6 said:
Muzzer79 said:
Sparta will be along in a minute to explain to you how nobody can touch Schumacher, principally because he bought pizza for his mechanics when they were testing at Fiorano.
Pizza-power.......they key to any multi-championship bid
We should never underestimate the power of pizzaPizza-power.......they key to any multi-championship bid
Siao said:
Muzzer79 said:
HustleRussell said:
Apart from being old, Schumacher was coming back from both an extended period where he hadn't raced and an injury.
Leaving the sport on grooved tyres and then returning on slicks. One year on Bridgestones and then adapting to Pirelli tyres, which completely changed the shape of the races, at 42...
I very much doubt there was a public expectation from MSC or the team that Michael was going to out-perform the young gun.
I expect Michael privately thought he might fare better than he did but I think Michael was very brave to come back, and climbed a mountain during those years. Obviously his value to the team was far greater than the driving alone, and he is one of the handful of people who get credited with the its ongoing success.
If he couldn't cut it, he shouldn't have come back or should have cut his tenure short.Leaving the sport on grooved tyres and then returning on slicks. One year on Bridgestones and then adapting to Pirelli tyres, which completely changed the shape of the races, at 42...
I very much doubt there was a public expectation from MSC or the team that Michael was going to out-perform the young gun.
I expect Michael privately thought he might fare better than he did but I think Michael was very brave to come back, and climbed a mountain during those years. Obviously his value to the team was far greater than the driving alone, and he is one of the handful of people who get credited with the its ongoing success.
Mercedes didn't pay him $20m-odd to be the second driver. They paid him to lead the team and out-perform the car. He failed, at least at the second part of that.
I'm sure his presence drove the team to some degree; working with "the great" Michael Schumacher and all that. His team ethic was also not in question.
He is undoubtedly a part of Mercedes' story but to credit him for any significant part, let alone being a cornerstone, of Mercedes' subsequent success as some people do is a fallacy.
They can hardly say, about a bloke in his condition (not to mention the amount of money they spent hiring him)
"Yeah.....he was a bit disappointing really"
Muzzer79 said:
Siao said:
Muzzer79 said:
HustleRussell said:
Apart from being old, Schumacher was coming back from both an extended period where he hadn't raced and an injury.
Leaving the sport on grooved tyres and then returning on slicks. One year on Bridgestones and then adapting to Pirelli tyres, which completely changed the shape of the races, at 42...
I very much doubt there was a public expectation from MSC or the team that Michael was going to out-perform the young gun.
I expect Michael privately thought he might fare better than he did but I think Michael was very brave to come back, and climbed a mountain during those years. Obviously his value to the team was far greater than the driving alone, and he is one of the handful of people who get credited with the its ongoing success.
If he couldn't cut it, he shouldn't have come back or should have cut his tenure short.Leaving the sport on grooved tyres and then returning on slicks. One year on Bridgestones and then adapting to Pirelli tyres, which completely changed the shape of the races, at 42...
I very much doubt there was a public expectation from MSC or the team that Michael was going to out-perform the young gun.
I expect Michael privately thought he might fare better than he did but I think Michael was very brave to come back, and climbed a mountain during those years. Obviously his value to the team was far greater than the driving alone, and he is one of the handful of people who get credited with the its ongoing success.
Mercedes didn't pay him $20m-odd to be the second driver. They paid him to lead the team and out-perform the car. He failed, at least at the second part of that.
I'm sure his presence drove the team to some degree; working with "the great" Michael Schumacher and all that. His team ethic was also not in question.
He is undoubtedly a part of Mercedes' story but to credit him for any significant part, let alone being a cornerstone, of Mercedes' subsequent success as some people do is a fallacy.
They can hardly say, about a bloke in his condition (not to mention the amount of money they spent hiring him)
"Yeah.....he was a bit disappointing really"
Or, just saying, they meant it???
Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 - Debrief Video on YouTube
Just uploaded. Doesn't say no to a change to sidepod design, but also doesn't directly imply it either. "Visual differences are coming" - could be interpreted as anything really.
It would be interesting to see them turn up with a very different car in Saudi. I think they have to try something different now.
Just uploaded. Doesn't say no to a change to sidepod design, but also doesn't directly imply it either. "Visual differences are coming" - could be interpreted as anything really.
It would be interesting to see them turn up with a very different car in Saudi. I think they have to try something different now.
C.A.R. said:
Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 - Debrief Video on YouTube
Just uploaded. Doesn't say no to a change to sidepod design, but also doesn't directly imply it either. "Visual differences are coming" - could be interpreted as anything really.
It would be interesting to see them turn up with a very different car in Saudi. I think they have to try something different now.
Saudi is too soon.Just uploaded. Doesn't say no to a change to sidepod design, but also doesn't directly imply it either. "Visual differences are coming" - could be interpreted as anything really.
It would be interesting to see them turn up with a very different car in Saudi. I think they have to try something different now.
Maybe Azerbaijan, if they’re lucky.
super7 said:
Bear in mind RB’s ability to develop their car further this year is going to be restricted by 1) reduced wind tunnel & cfd time due to be the champions and 2) reduced wind tunnel & cfd due to cheating. They have at least 40% less time than the others….
So whilst Merc, Ferrari and i suppose Aston now have more development capability within the cap, RB have a hand tied behind their back!
Aston must arguably be in a very good position having an already fast car at the front and also having over 100% Aero time.
Great pointSo whilst Merc, Ferrari and i suppose Aston now have more development capability within the cap, RB have a hand tied behind their back!
Aston must arguably be in a very good position having an already fast car at the front and also having over 100% Aero time.
Bo_apex said:
You are uncharacteristically late to bash Hamilton. Usually so prompt. HustleRussell said:
Bo_apex said:
You are uncharacteristically late to bash Hamilton. Usually so prompt. Hamilton's comments knocking some sense to them would actually be something good I think.
Siao said:
HustleRussell said:
Bo_apex said:
You are uncharacteristically late to bash Hamilton. Usually so prompt. Hamilton's comments knocking some sense to them would actually be something good I think.
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff