What do you think's going on at Mercedes right now then?

[DanielSan]

Who cmme up with this PR embarrassment and who thought it was necessary to release it into the world? Since when do race teams apologise to fans for finishing 5th ffs?

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/news/a-letter-to-the...

[500TORQUES]

DanielSan said:

Who cmme up with this PR embarrassment and who thought it was necessary to release it into the world? Since when do race teams apologise to fans for finishing 5th ffs?

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/news/a-letter-to-the...

That's the pathetic PR world we now live in.

[Pflanzgarten]

500TORQUES said:

DanielSan said:

Who cmme up with this PR embarrassment and who thought it was necessary to release it into the world? Since when do race teams apologise to fans for finishing 5th ffs?

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/news/a-letter-to-the...

That's the pathetic PR world we now live in.

Massive Mercedes fan here, big admirer of Wolf and most of the team over the past ten years.

But I must admit I read that and thought what a pathetic way to conduct your public relations.

[maz8062]

Pflanzgarten said:

500TORQUES said:

DanielSan said:

Who cmme up with this PR embarrassment and who thought it was necessary to release it into the world? Since when do race teams apologise to fans for finishing 5th ffs?

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/news/a-letter-to-the...

That's the pathetic PR world we now live in.

Massive Mercedes fan here, big admirer of Wolf and most of the team over the past ten years.

But I must admit I read that and thought what a pathetic way to conduct your public relations.

How can you read anything but positivity from that statement? We are where we are ad I applaud them for saying it as it is and getting on with turning things around. Perhaps you’d have preferred them to hide the truth from the fans - I prefer this way and I’m sure most will too.

[gt_12345]

500TORQUES said:

That's the pathetic PR world we now live in.

Harriet and Poppy

[DanielSan]

maz8062 said:

How can you read anything but positivity from that statement? We are where we are ad I applaud them for saying it as it is and getting on with turning things around. Perhaps you’d have preferred them to hide the truth from the fans - I prefer this way and I’m sure most will too.

There is no information in that 'letter' though, anyone wanting actual information would've learnt more from Toto and Hamilton's interviews after the race

[DOCG]

maz8062 said:

How can you read anything but positivity from that statement? We are where we are ad I applaud them for saying it as it is and getting on with turning things around. Perhaps you’d have preferred them to hide the truth from the fans - I prefer this way and I’m sure most will too.

To quote the letter "We’re already hard at work on changing the course of this 2023 season. The recovery began immediately after the race"

That's hardly being honest with the fans is it? Other than that slice of dishonesty, the rest is just PR cringe with no content of any substance whatsoever.

[NRS]

500TORQUES said:

MustangGT said:

I am sure that the top drivers, like Lewis, can provide a lot more input than that. They have a good understanding of engineering and how it relates to the car performance.

In F1 they do not make any changes without data, so, the driver will know precisely what difference a specific change makes.

There are 600 people engineering that car, Lewis is there to give usable feedback for the engineering changes to supplement the data. He will be told what they are trying and why, but it's the engineers who do that work and develop the changes.

What a team need, less so these days because there is very limited test driving and so much data, is a driver that can replicate a run consistently, and give feedback on the feel of the car, it's data generated changes they carry out to the design, not a finger in the air thought about it.

Newey was using this approach very early on in his career in Indycar, every setup change he made was worked out crunching numbers and he went with the numbers over driver feedback.

You should remember the 1994 Williams introduced after the ban on active suspension, Senna couldn't drive the thing at the limit because it was so unstable. He gave them feedback on how it was reacting, the engineers worked out what was wrong and fixed it, it later in the season became the fastest car out there (faster than the cheating Benetton). Once they understood how now they didn't have the stable platform of the active car, they had to provide a larger window of operation from the aero, they had something they could work with and develop.

We may find Mercedes go through a similar process, where they sacrifice peak performance for stability, and then chip away at the performance envelope, that will all come from CFD, Wind Tunnel and circuit data, with the driver feeding back on what he can feel. We are long past the point where a driver can input to the design, Aero is far too prevalent and critical to performance. Yet we still get journalists printing nonsense about the role of the driver, as though they are critical to the car design, they aren't, just look at what Alonso jumped into without turning a wheel in it.

Some drivers are much poorer at giving feedback to developing a car, the same as any other strength and weakness they have.

You’re also forgetting that Lewis will also be told the direction they are trying to improve. If for example he sees they are really struggling through the corners compared to others in different conditions and the engineers are focussed on trying to get the top speed up it can be that he will say that’s not the right focus. Sometimes he’ll be wrong, but other times it can be right.

I would actually say Alonso appears to have a negative effect on design if anything, as he seems to create discontent within teams. Stunning driver, but probably not the best for developing a car given his history.

[500TORQUES]

The teams all have speed data from every car, they know how they compare with each other throughout the lap. During testing they dont know each others fuel load or power mode, they do after one race. It's simple physics and mathematics.

[Muzzer79]

DanielSan said:

Who cmme up with this PR embarrassment and who thought it was necessary to release it into the world? Since when do race teams apologise to fans for finishing 5th ffs?

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/news/a-letter-to-the...

I don't see an apology in there.

It's a bit of an odd statement, without any real purpose, but they're not apologising. They're just saying that they're on the case to getting better and trying to garner support.

The bit about not tolerating bullying, etc seems pertinent. I suspect that they've had some stick for not doing better.

[C5_Steve]

DanielSan said:

Who cmme up with this PR embarrassment and who thought it was necessary to release it into the world? Since when do race teams apologise to fans for finishing 5th ffs?

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/news/a-letter-to-the...

It's a bit unusual, but I'd say the reason for it is exactly this thread and thousands like it along with all the articles that keep being linked to about Mercedes and their start to the 2023 season.

Literally, this thread is titled "What do you think's going on at Mercedes right now then?" and they've released a statement showing what is going on at Mercedes right now. Mercedes fans are disappointed with potentially another season watching them chase their tails. So they've openly acknowledged this.

Still people criticise.........

[PhilAsia]

The media undercurrent seems to suggest they are on the brink of WW3.

[HustleRussell]

I know this has always been the case, but with this latest influx of F1 fans there are suddenly more people than ever who think they know about F1 who don't in fact know about F1. As an example, prior to the reveal of the W14, there were probably tens of thousands of tweets and comments from people saying "It'd better be black and have sidepods!". Then when it was revealed it was "Wot no sidepods!". Finally after Bahrain it is "Why didn't they listen to Hamilton about the sidepods?". I don't think Mercedes have faced this kind of trial by social media before. Nonetheless they do want to onboard all of these possible fans no matter how much they have still to learn about the nuances of F1 car design.

I kind of feel that Mercedes are actually playing up to the situation a bit so that fans can see that they aren't satisfied and that radical changes will be made if necessary.

Hamilton has always been and will always be a popular driver despite what you may hear on here but a lot of the new fans are getting behind the younger generation of drivers too including George.

Mercedes are having their major wobble and suddenly there's a lot of pressure on Mercedes to deliver the car and take on nasty Red Bull.

[sandman77]

DOCG said:

To quote the letter "We’re already hard at work on changing the course of this 2023 season. The recovery began immediately after the race"

That's hardly being honest with the fans is it? Other than that slice of dishonesty, the rest is just PR cringe with no content of any substance whatsoever.

Which bit exactly is dishonest?

[mat205125]

HustleRussell said:

Mercedes are having their major wobble and suddenly there's a lot of pressure on Mercedes to deliver the car and take on nasty Red Bull.

Exactly. They're having their wobble on a global social media stage, which is a particular focus in certain geographies.

I reckon that the grief that Mercedes are getting for their situation, is proper amateur stuff compared to what Ferrari are experiencing through the Italian media and fanbase.

Being objective on these two teams ....... Neither has a disastrously slow car at the end of the day. They are simply too far adrift of Red Bull to be acceptable against their aspirations.

[NRS]

mat205125 said:

HustleRussell said:

Mercedes are having their major wobble and suddenly there's a lot of pressure on Mercedes to deliver the car and take on nasty Red Bull.

Exactly. They're having their wobble on a global social media stage, which is a particular focus in certain geographies.

I reckon that the grief that Mercedes are getting for their situation, is proper amateur stuff compared to what Ferrari are experiencing through the Italian media and fanbase.

Being objective on these two teams ....... Neither has a disastrously slow car at the end of the day. They are simply too far adrift of Red Bull to be acceptable against their aspirations.

Yeah, I'm trying to remember what RB faced when their car dropped off the pace as the engine period came in - did RB face the same "you're rubbish" as Merc are getting now? I feel it is a yes, but maybe it was directed towards the (different) engine manufacturers instead of RB themselves.

[PhilAsia]

sandman77 said:

DOCG said:

To quote the letter "We’re already hard at work on changing the course of this 2023 season. The recovery began immediately after the race"

That's hardly being honest with the fans is it? Other than that slice of dishonesty, the rest is just PR cringe with no content of any substance whatsoever.

Which bit exactly is dishonest?

The bit where they forgot to mention they were going to invade Poland...

[HustleRussell]

NRS said:

mat205125 said:

HustleRussell said:

Mercedes are having their major wobble and suddenly there's a lot of pressure on Mercedes to deliver the car and take on nasty Red Bull.

Exactly. They're having their wobble on a global social media stage, which is a particular focus in certain geographies.

I reckon that the grief that Mercedes are getting for their situation, is proper amateur stuff compared to what Ferrari are experiencing through the Italian media and fanbase.

Being objective on these two teams ....... Neither has a disastrously slow car at the end of the day. They are simply too far adrift of Red Bull to be acceptable against their aspirations.

Yeah, I'm trying to remember what RB faced when their car dropped off the pace as the engine period came in - did RB face the same "you're rubbish" as Merc are getting now? I feel it is a yes, but maybe it was directed towards the (different) engine manufacturers instead of RB themselves.

I don't think RB copped any criticism as it was correctly viewed as Renault's failure. Looking back it's actually amazing what RB achieved that season considering the shape the Renault PU was in. I wonder what Mercedes would give to get three race wins and eight podiums this season as RB did in 2014.

[thegreenhell]

HustleRussell said:

I don't think RB copped any criticism as it was correctly viewed as Renault's failure. Looking back it's actually amazing what RB achieved that season considering the shape the Renault PU was in. I wonder what Mercedes would give to get three race wins and eight podiums this season as RB did in 2014.

I think a lot of people were just happy to see Horner and Vettel taking a beating back then, after four years of them gloating and telling everyone else they should build a better car if they wanted to beat them.

[Muzzer79]

NRS said:

mat205125 said:

HustleRussell said:

Mercedes are having their major wobble and suddenly there's a lot of pressure on Mercedes to deliver the car and take on nasty Red Bull.

Exactly. They're having their wobble on a global social media stage, which is a particular focus in certain geographies.

I reckon that the grief that Mercedes are getting for their situation, is proper amateur stuff compared to what Ferrari are experiencing through the Italian media and fanbase.

Being objective on these two teams ....... Neither has a disastrously slow car at the end of the day. They are simply too far adrift of Red Bull to be acceptable against their aspirations.

Yeah, I'm trying to remember what RB faced when their car dropped off the pace as the engine period came in - did RB face the same "you're rubbish" as Merc are getting now? I feel it is a yes, but maybe it was directed towards the (different) engine manufacturers instead of RB themselves.

Social media was a different place 9 years ago

Now there's a multitude of podcasts, YouTube channels, forums, etc - all deep-analysing what they think is happening.

I think a lot of the grief Mercedes are getting (if they're getting any) is coming from fans wanting them to give Hamilton a better car so he can get what he should have had in 2021....