What do you think's going on at Mercedes right now then?
Discussion
C5_Steve said:
It's a bit unusual, but I'd say the reason for it is exactly this thread and thousands like it along with all the articles that keep being linked to about Mercedes and their start to the 2023 season.
Literally, this thread is titled "What do you think's going on at Mercedes right now then?" and they've released a statement showing what is going on at Mercedes right now. Mercedes fans are disappointed with potentially another season watching them chase their tails. So they've openly acknowledged this.
Still people criticise.........
The statement gave no information whatsoever about what is going on in the team. Other than generic PR talk about "loving the challenge" "being together through thick at thin" bla bla bla. No specific information on what the recovery plan is or when they think they will return to competitiveness because in reality it probably won't be until the next regulation changes. It's just empty motivational rhetoric to try to keep DTS fans engaged. Literally, this thread is titled "What do you think's going on at Mercedes right now then?" and they've released a statement showing what is going on at Mercedes right now. Mercedes fans are disappointed with potentially another season watching them chase their tails. So they've openly acknowledged this.
Still people criticise.........
DOCG said:
sandman77 said:
Which bit exactly is dishonest?
Implying that there is a chance of recovery of the 2023 season. Mercedes said:
"We’re already hard at work on changing the course of this 2023 season. The recovery began immediately after the race"
It's an engagement post with the fans. What do you expect them to say?"We're hard at work trying to fix this, but there's not really a hope so we're going to give up and try again in 2024. See you then"
The febrile nature of Mercedes support has arguably overtaken that of Ferrari’s. Which is on one hand a good thing that people care so much.
It has its negatives though, and hopefully the owners are able to stand back and allow the organisation to rebuild competitiveness.
Something that Ferrari has more often than not failed at.
It has its negatives though, and hopefully the owners are able to stand back and allow the organisation to rebuild competitiveness.
Something that Ferrari has more often than not failed at.
Leithen said:
The febrile nature of Mercedes support has arguably overtaken that of Ferrari’s. Which is on one hand a good thing that people care so much.
It has its negatives though, and hopefully the owners are able to stand back and allow the organisation to rebuild competitiveness.
Something that Ferrari has more often than not failed at.
Far fewer Italians working at team Merc, that should help.It has its negatives though, and hopefully the owners are able to stand back and allow the organisation to rebuild competitiveness.
Something that Ferrari has more often than not failed at.
DOCG said:
sandman77 said:
Which bit exactly is dishonest?
Implying that there is a chance of recovery of the 2023 season. 
Muzzer79 said:
It's an engagement post with the fans. What do you expect them to say?
"We're hard at work trying to fix this, but there's not really a hope so we're going to give up and try again in 2024. See you then"
Not quite phrased like that, but effectively yes. Something like "To benefit the future of the team, it is necessary to sacrifice 2023 as a development season. As such, the reality is that it is high unlikely we will be competing for the title or regular race wins." "We're hard at work trying to fix this, but there's not really a hope so we're going to give up and try again in 2024. See you then"
Fans would respect the truth.
Leithen said:
The febrile nature of Mercedes support has arguably overtaken that of Ferrari’s. Which is on one hand a good thing that people care so much.
It has its negatives though, and hopefully the owners are able to stand back and allow the organisation to rebuild competitiveness.
Something that Ferrari has more often than not failed at.
I think Ferrari fans are a different breed to Mercedes fans. Big generalisation and it won't apply to everyone but I think alot of Mercedes fans will be Hamilton fans first. It has its negatives though, and hopefully the owners are able to stand back and allow the organisation to rebuild competitiveness.
Something that Ferrari has more often than not failed at.
DOCG said:
The statement gave no information whatsoever about what is going on in the team. Other than generic PR talk about "loving the challenge" "being together through thick at thin" bla bla bla. No specific information on what the recovery plan is or when they think they will return to competitiveness because in reality it probably won't be until the next regulation changes. It's just empty motivational rhetoric to try to keep DTS fans engaged.
A bit like every article about Mercedes people are referencing (and most of this thread) then right? Let's be honest, Merc isn't gonna post up their wind tunnel results or internal strategy for everyone are they? Nor are they going to say 2023 is a write-off (they have sponsors), however, why do you think it is? Cast your mind back to the start of last season, when the cars was also a mess compared to everyone else. After that first race did anyone think they'd win a race, let alone be as competitive as they were?
Merc said from day one they have an alternative strategy they can pursue if this one doesn't work out and the earliest we'd see that in action in the form of car changes was Baku.
I think it's a reality of the sport today that a lot of fans don't have the technical knowledge of others and I think it's absolutely fine for a team to try and be more inclusive and accessible to those who are just fans of the team and don't have an understanding of the difference in wishbone set up between the teams.
Personally, I like the tone Mercedes takes when it comes to media engagement. Compared with others who instead try to blame every situation on third parties or play the victim, they are at least honest in their acceptance that their performance is not where it should be.
DOCG said:
Muzzer79 said:
It's an engagement post with the fans. What do you expect them to say?
"We're hard at work trying to fix this, but there's not really a hope so we're going to give up and try again in 2024. See you then"
Not quite phrased like that, but effectively yes. Something like "To benefit the future of the team, it is necessary to sacrifice 2023 as a development season. As such, the reality is that it is high unlikely we will be competing for the title or regular race wins." "We're hard at work trying to fix this, but there's not really a hope so we're going to give up and try again in 2024. See you then"
Fans would respect the truth.
I mean...if they're still in this position in the summer then maybe but talk about getting carried away.......In any case, it's not "the truth" - it's your opinion.
You need to have a proven, seriously, fundamentally flawed car to write it off after one race.
Not one that finished fifth, was half a second off pole and two tenths off the pace in FP3.
DOCG said:
Not quite phrased like that, but effectively yes. Something like "To benefit the future of the team, it is necessary to sacrifice 2023 as a development season. As such, the reality is that it is high unlikely we will be competing for the title or regular race wins."
Fans would respect the truth.
I doubt that any team, in any sport, ever has put out a statement of that nature after one solitary fixture of a ten month long season. Fans would respect the truth.
DanielSan said:
Who cmme up with this PR embarrassment and who thought it was necessary to release it into the world? Since when do race teams apologise to fans for finishing 5th ffs?
https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/news/a-letter-to-the...
"safe space" https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/news/a-letter-to-the...
Muzzer79 said:
DOCG said:
Muzzer79 said:
It's an engagement post with the fans. What do you expect them to say?
"We're hard at work trying to fix this, but there's not really a hope so we're going to give up and try again in 2024. See you then"
Not quite phrased like that, but effectively yes. Something like "To benefit the future of the team, it is necessary to sacrifice 2023 as a development season. As such, the reality is that it is high unlikely we will be competing for the title or regular race wins." "We're hard at work trying to fix this, but there's not really a hope so we're going to give up and try again in 2024. See you then"
Fans would respect the truth.
I mean...if they're still in this position in the summer then maybe but talk about getting carried away.......In any case, it's not "the truth" - it's your opinion.
You need to have a proven, seriously, fundamentally flawed car to write it off after one race.
Not one that finished fifth, was half a second off pole and two tenths off the pace in FP3.
Muzzer79 said:
You'd make a statement like that after one 3 day test and one race weekend? You think fans would respect throwing the towel in so early?
I mean...if they're still in this position in the summer then maybe but talk about getting carried away.......In any case, it's not "the truth" - it's your opinion.
You need to have a proven, seriously, fundamentally flawed car to write it off after one race.
Not one that finished fifth, was half a second off pole and two tenths off the pace in FP3.
It's not "throwing the towel in" but prioritising future development over a season that will not be competitive (considering their team goal is to compete for titles). I mean...if they're still in this position in the summer then maybe but talk about getting carried away.......In any case, it's not "the truth" - it's your opinion.
You need to have a proven, seriously, fundamentally flawed car to write it off after one race.
Not one that finished fifth, was half a second off pole and two tenths off the pace in FP3.
The reality is that they will not compete at the front of the grid this year, the development gap to RB is huge. It's easy to tell at the beginning of an F1 season which teams will be competitive. Do you think it is also too early to write off the chances of Williams winning the title?
Blib said:
I doubt that any team, in any sport, ever has put out a statement of that nature after one solitary fixture of a ten month long season.
I think a few years ago the boss of Ferrari was honest in saying the next time the team would realistically be competitive would be in 2022. DOCG said:
Muzzer79 said:
You'd make a statement like that after one 3 day test and one race weekend? You think fans would respect throwing the towel in so early?
I mean...if they're still in this position in the summer then maybe but talk about getting carried away.......In any case, it's not "the truth" - it's your opinion.
You need to have a proven, seriously, fundamentally flawed car to write it off after one race.
Not one that finished fifth, was half a second off pole and two tenths off the pace in FP3.
It's not "throwing the towel in" but prioritising future development over a season that will not be competitive (considering their team goal is to compete for titles). I mean...if they're still in this position in the summer then maybe but talk about getting carried away.......In any case, it's not "the truth" - it's your opinion.
You need to have a proven, seriously, fundamentally flawed car to write it off after one race.
Not one that finished fifth, was half a second off pole and two tenths off the pace in FP3.
The reality is that they will not compete at the front of the grid this year, the development gap to RB is huge. It's easy to tell at the beginning of an F1 season which teams will be competitive. Do you think it is also too early to write off the chances of Williams winning the title?
Do you realise the absurdity of that?
Bo_apex said:
TheDeuce said:
Far fewer Italians working at team Merc, that should help.
What's wrong with Italian people ?But having worked with teams of engineers and producers from all over Europe, and beyond, I have noticed there is a particularly 'Italian' way of dealing with things, especially when things go wrong and blame is to be apportioned or cause and effect honestly identified and learned from.
Perhaps my observations are purely coincidental, perhaps I've just happened to only meet Italians that have a certain way of dealing with problems and responsibility/blame under pressure? Or perhaps there is something of a national trait at play, as we British have our own flawed national traits, and that might explain why Ferrari only ever seem to do well in F1 when the team is mostly if not exclusively being managed and directed by people that are not Italian.
Pay attention folks. RBR played a blinder in all of this. They saw the long game and outplayed Merc, Ferrari and the lot of them. Merc are apologising because they know they got it wrong and no matter how much money they have to spend, they can’t because there’s a cost cap in place and the pecking order is locked in for the 23/24 season for sure and most likely until 2026.
RBR, you’ll remember, insisted on having the engine regs locked in when Honda announced that they were leaving the sport. They got the teams to agree to their terms, Honda’s terms and then went about building one hell of an engine while Honda didn’t really leave the sport, they just used their exit as a bargaining chip.
The issue that we have in F1 in 2023 is that it’s a closed shop that’s worth $billions. They’re all making big bucks and really only one of 3 teams can win the WCC/WDC. Merc have zero chance of bridging the gap this year and are now so far behind the curve that they’re unlikely to catch RBR for many, many years to come. They’ll do well to catch AM never mind Ferrari and RBR, so we’re in for a long hard road back to the front.
What’s the future? LH is now unlikely to get that 8th WDC. Is GR up to it against Max? Maybe but unlikely. The future for Merc is bleak and they’re simply preparing us and managing expectations.
This my friends is the F1 that the teams agreed to and Sky sell us every other weekend. Don’t worry about winning, concentrate on the midfield because the winning is not the show, the show is what they tell us is the show.
RBR, you’ll remember, insisted on having the engine regs locked in when Honda announced that they were leaving the sport. They got the teams to agree to their terms, Honda’s terms and then went about building one hell of an engine while Honda didn’t really leave the sport, they just used their exit as a bargaining chip.
The issue that we have in F1 in 2023 is that it’s a closed shop that’s worth $billions. They’re all making big bucks and really only one of 3 teams can win the WCC/WDC. Merc have zero chance of bridging the gap this year and are now so far behind the curve that they’re unlikely to catch RBR for many, many years to come. They’ll do well to catch AM never mind Ferrari and RBR, so we’re in for a long hard road back to the front.
What’s the future? LH is now unlikely to get that 8th WDC. Is GR up to it against Max? Maybe but unlikely. The future for Merc is bleak and they’re simply preparing us and managing expectations.
This my friends is the F1 that the teams agreed to and Sky sell us every other weekend. Don’t worry about winning, concentrate on the midfield because the winning is not the show, the show is what they tell us is the show.
maz8062 said:
Pay attention folks. RBR played a blinder in all of this. They saw the long game and outplayed Merc, Ferrari and the lot of them. Merc are apologising because they know they got it wrong and no matter how much money they have to spend, they can’t because there’s a cost cap in place and the pecking order is locked in for the 23/24 season for sure and most likely until 2026.
RBR, you’ll remember, insisted on having the engine regs locked in when Honda announced that they were leaving the sport. They got the teams to agree to their terms, Honda’s terms and then went about building one hell of an engine while Honda didn’t really leave the sport, they just used their exit as a bargaining chip.
The issue that we have in F1 in 2023 is that it’s a closed shop that’s worth $billions. They’re all making big bucks and really only one of 3 teams can win the WCC/WDC. Merc have zero chance of bridging the gap this year and are now so far behind the curve that they’re unlikely to catch RBR for many, many years to come. They’ll do well to catch AM never mind Ferrari and RBR, so we’re in for a long hard road back to the front.
What’s the future? LH is now unlikely to get that 8th WDC. Is GR up to it against Max? Maybe but unlikely. The future for Merc is bleak and they’re simply preparing us and managing expectations.
This my friends is the F1 that the teams agreed to and Sky sell us every other weekend. Don’t worry about winning, concentrate on the midfield because the winning is not the show, the show is what they tell us is the show.
I think that whilst RB have played this all very well and smartly - it's also true that the sport seemed to smile upon their desire to finally do something about Merc's endless dominance. I think certainly the sport listened to RB's many ideas and suggestions to make things 'fairer', and of course any team that suggests or backs fairer ways of doing something will ironically be suggesting/backing the things they figure will help them more than their rivals!RBR, you’ll remember, insisted on having the engine regs locked in when Honda announced that they were leaving the sport. They got the teams to agree to their terms, Honda’s terms and then went about building one hell of an engine while Honda didn’t really leave the sport, they just used their exit as a bargaining chip.
The issue that we have in F1 in 2023 is that it’s a closed shop that’s worth $billions. They’re all making big bucks and really only one of 3 teams can win the WCC/WDC. Merc have zero chance of bridging the gap this year and are now so far behind the curve that they’re unlikely to catch RBR for many, many years to come. They’ll do well to catch AM never mind Ferrari and RBR, so we’re in for a long hard road back to the front.
What’s the future? LH is now unlikely to get that 8th WDC. Is GR up to it against Max? Maybe but unlikely. The future for Merc is bleak and they’re simply preparing us and managing expectations.
This my friends is the F1 that the teams agreed to and Sky sell us every other weekend. Don’t worry about winning, concentrate on the midfield because the winning is not the show, the show is what they tell us is the show.
It's most likely a simple case of the sport being open to changes that could shake up the balance and RB being very hot on that doing a great job of helping to steer any mooted changes in their favor as much as possible.
It might also be partly down to Newey and a the design team beneath him that I'm sure are extremely loyal and well aligned to getting the job done to the highest standard at this point.
Great team RB. I can't stand the endless BS spiel and double standards that come from Horner and co - but that's just politics. At a core level, the team are very strong and have earned their time and chance.
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