Angela Cullen and Lewis go their separate ways
Discussion
pablo said:
105.4 said:
If that’s not photoshopped, then my opinion, (as low as it already was), of Lewis Hamilton as a man, has just f
king plummeted.
That you had to even ask says a lot more about you than it does Lewis…… I’ll bet you only asked to use it as an opportunity to include that little dig. In your tiny mind, I guess you “won”…king plummeted.RacerMike said:
maz8062 said:
honda_exige said:
That tallies with LH's IG post so why is Toto wading in suggesting that he sacked her?
Anyone else notice Toto has been a bit.... odd this season?
His comments will likely antagonise Lewis as people will use it as an excuse to st on him.
My wild conspiracy theory is that when combined with Toto's comments yesterday about Lewis looking for another team is that he's trying to encourage Lewis out the door, or he already knows that Lewis himself has decided that.
Whichever way we look at it this doesn’t look good. Had she given notice that she’ll be calling it quits at the end of the season, this season with a long farewell, we’d get it. But after one race and with immediate effect during a race weekend, it come across as a sacking. Sacking someone that has been there through the grid times and the bad, is not a great look, but then again LH doesn’t do loyalty - ask that German guy that stabbed someone with a glass (the name escapes me)Anyone else notice Toto has been a bit.... odd this season?
His comments will likely antagonise Lewis as people will use it as an excuse to s
t on him.My wild conspiracy theory is that when combined with Toto's comments yesterday about Lewis looking for another team is that he's trying to encourage Lewis out the door, or he already knows that Lewis himself has decided that.
I’ve followed LH from his F1 days in 2007. As a person he doesn’t appear to do loyalty, perhaps apart from his dogs and his father as a father, but there are no ever present people, “friends” around him and he does appear to burn bridges. He’s 38 but doesn’t have a wife or long term gf, children, he comes across as a person that seems to be in constant flow. A great sportsman but otherwise lost.
Good luck to him but I fear he’ll struggle in the future when there’ll be less attention on him. I could be wrong of course.
Interestingly, Max is sort of the opposite way round. He's very black or white on track, is undeniably very single minded and focussed on winning and will (arguably) win at all costs in many situations. He's painted as the villain to Lewis' hero (in the minds of many of the LH Fan club) however having spoken with people that work very closely with Max, away from the media and the track, Max is super friendly, very personable, down to earth and fun.
Hundreds of books exist about the psychology of sportsmen and women. I'm sure that Lewis wouldn't be as successful if he wasn't a Narcissist.
And an unknown reason for a spilt is more evidence of this behaviour… you literally have no idea why she left but it’s clear it’s evidence of him being a narcissist? Ever considered you might see what you want to?
Of course this will be written off as a Lewis fanboy, when it’s more just pointing out the strange arguments used, which then gets used to prove more evidence due to the way stuff is interpreted, so therefore it proves it even more… it’s not good logic.
NRS said:
That’s hilarious, the description is basically single shaming - because he doesn’t have a partner or kids he’s a narcissist?! Presumably the friends that turn up at races are just there for the show? Who were Seb’s friends? Who are Alonso’s friends? Who are Max’s friends? Do you know? I honestly have no idea, they’re not shown presumably due to privacy. But Lewis is the only one with no regular friends around because…?
And an unknown reason for a spilt is more evidence of this behaviour… you literally have no idea why she left but it’s clear it’s evidence of him being a narcissist? Ever considered you might see what you want to?
Of course this will be written off as a Lewis fanboy, when it’s more just pointing out the strange arguments used, which then gets used to prove more evidence due to the way stuff is interpreted, so therefore it proves it even more… it’s not good logic.
There's no point trying to reason with some of these people. They are steeped in hatred and that's the end of it, nothing will ever change.And an unknown reason for a spilt is more evidence of this behaviour… you literally have no idea why she left but it’s clear it’s evidence of him being a narcissist? Ever considered you might see what you want to?
Of course this will be written off as a Lewis fanboy, when it’s more just pointing out the strange arguments used, which then gets used to prove more evidence due to the way stuff is interpreted, so therefore it proves it even more… it’s not good logic.
NRS said:
RacerMike said:
maz8062 said:
honda_exige said:
That tallies with LH's IG post so why is Toto wading in suggesting that he sacked her?
Anyone else notice Toto has been a bit.... odd this season?
His comments will likely antagonise Lewis as people will use it as an excuse to st on him.
My wild conspiracy theory is that when combined with Toto's comments yesterday about Lewis looking for another team is that he's trying to encourage Lewis out the door, or he already knows that Lewis himself has decided that.
Whichever way we look at it this doesn’t look good. Had she given notice that she’ll be calling it quits at the end of the season, this season with a long farewell, we’d get it. But after one race and with immediate effect during a race weekend, it come across as a sacking. Sacking someone that has been there through the grid times and the bad, is not a great look, but then again LH doesn’t do loyalty - ask that German guy that stabbed someone with a glass (the name escapes me)Anyone else notice Toto has been a bit.... odd this season?
His comments will likely antagonise Lewis as people will use it as an excuse to s
t on him.My wild conspiracy theory is that when combined with Toto's comments yesterday about Lewis looking for another team is that he's trying to encourage Lewis out the door, or he already knows that Lewis himself has decided that.
I’ve followed LH from his F1 days in 2007. As a person he doesn’t appear to do loyalty, perhaps apart from his dogs and his father as a father, but there are no ever present people, “friends” around him and he does appear to burn bridges. He’s 38 but doesn’t have a wife or long term gf, children, he comes across as a person that seems to be in constant flow. A great sportsman but otherwise lost.
Good luck to him but I fear he’ll struggle in the future when there’ll be less attention on him. I could be wrong of course.
Interestingly, Max is sort of the opposite way round. He's very black or white on track, is undeniably very single minded and focussed on winning and will (arguably) win at all costs in many situations. He's painted as the villain to Lewis' hero (in the minds of many of the LH Fan club) however having spoken with people that work very closely with Max, away from the media and the track, Max is super friendly, very personable, down to earth and fun.
Hundreds of books exist about the psychology of sportsmen and women. I'm sure that Lewis wouldn't be as successful if he wasn't a Narcissist.
And an unknown reason for a spilt is more evidence of this behaviour… you literally have no idea why she left but it’s clear it’s evidence of him being a narcissist? Ever considered you might see what you want to?
Of course this will be written off as a Lewis fanboy, when it’s more just pointing out the strange arguments used, which then gets used to prove more evidence due to the way stuff is interpreted, so therefore it proves it even more… it’s not good logic.
It's frustrating that you jump so quickly to his defence that you can't look more objectively at Lewis. He's a phenomenal talent, and I was a big fan for many years but he simply has become less likeable to many as the years have gone on. His inability to accept any form of criticism isn't very endearing, and conversely to people like Schumacher and Vettel who's real personalities eventually came to the front of their public persona and largely won even their most harsh critics over towards the end of their careers, Lewis has managed the opposite. I suspect he's not particularly nice to work for or be around sadly, but the same can be said for many sports people or celebrities.
I do feel he demonstrates some strong narcissistic behaviours though, and I think undoubtedly this has probably helped his success. It's why I'm not really much of a fan of his anymore, but I can totally appreciate that he wouldn't be the driver he is without it.
I'll finish with a few quotes from https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/14-signs-of... which are clearly evident in Lewis and which I think go some why to giving us a clue about Angela's departure:
"There is a definite hierarchy, with the narcissist at the top—which is the only place they feel safe. Narcissists have to be the best, the most right, and the most competent; do everything their way; own everything; and control everyone." - Lewis see's himself as the reason for Mercedes success, and his whole external narrative is 'being the best'. It's exactly what drives him to be 'The GOAT' and that very term only satisfies to inflate this.
"Validation for a narcissist counts only if it comes from others. Even then, it doesn't count for much." - Has this not effectively been Angelas job for 7 years? She's there to 'provide support' and tell him what he wants to here? I could be wrong, but I feel that she has been his personal filter to the outside world. It's quite possible she's said something he doesn't like. Perhaps she was critical about something he said about the team. That shatters the relationship they have for him. She's suddenly told him something he doesn't like. That's it. Gone.
"The demand for perfection leads the narcissist to complain and be constantly dissatisfied." - Anything less than winning to Lewis is a complete loss. 'My tyres man', 'I can't believe you guys f**** me, can't tell you how *** I am'.
"In addition, if your words and expressions aren't congruent, the narcissist will likely respond erroneously or get defensive." - The famous pre season press conference: Interviewer 'With the change in regulations, and the fact that everybody is in the unknown, do you fear that your team may not be able to give you a car capable of winning the WC?' Lewis sounding like hes upset by the question 'Why would I think that? Why would I ever think that? We've won 8 (WCC) in a row. My team don't make mistakes'.
Even as an ex or current Lewis fan.....surely you can see why those things make Lewis a fierce competitor, but also why he's a difficult person to like. Ironically the corporate nature of McLaren and their desire to stifle their drivers personalities may well have been a good thing back in 2007/8 as it stopped people like me seeing what he was really like...
Edited by RacerMike on Sunday 19th March 15:18
Red9zero said:
paulguitar said:
RacerMike said:
highlighting the fact he's a lost sole.
After the endless nonsense about narcissism, suggesting Hamilton is also a fish is a step too far.RacerMike said:
Red9zero said:
paulguitar said:
RacerMike said:
highlighting the fact he's a lost sole.
After the endless nonsense about narcissism, suggesting Hamilton is also a fish is a step too far.RacerMike said:
Well. I'm single and don't have any kids so it would be a bit remiss of me to 'single shame' him! I felt Honda_Exige was more highlighting the fact he's a lost sole. He's someone who doesn't seem to know his place in the world outside of sport....that doesn't especially have anything to do with being a narcissist, and being single with no kids certainly isn't a specific trait of a narcissist either. Plenty are married with kids!
It's frustrating that you jump so quickly to his defence that you can't look more objectively at Lewis. He's a phenomenal talent, and I was a big fan for many years but he simply has become less likeable to many as the years have gone on. His inability to accept any form of criticism isn't very endearing, and conversely to people like Schumacher and Vettel who's real personalities eventually came to the front of their public persona and largely won even their most harsh critics over towards the end of their careers, Lewis has managed the opposite. I suspect he's not particularly nice to work for or be around sadly, but the same can be said for many sports people or celebrities.
I do feel he demonstrates some strong narcissistic behaviours though, and I think undoubtedly this has probably helped his success. It's why I'm not really much of a fan of his anymore, but I can totally appreciate that he wouldn't be the driver he is without it.
I'll finish with a few quotes from https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/14-signs-of... which are clearly evident in Lewis and which I think go some why to giving us a clue about Angela's departure:
"There is a definite hierarchy, with the narcissist at the top—which is the only place they feel safe. Narcissists have to be the best, the most right, and the most competent; do everything their way; own everything; and control everyone." - Lewis see's himself as the reason for Mercedes success, and his whole external narrative is 'being the best'. It's exactly what drives him to be 'The GOAT' and that very term only satisfies to inflate this.
"Validation for a narcissist counts only if it comes from others. Even then, it doesn't count for much." - Has this not effectively been Angelas job for 7 years? She's there to 'provide support' and tell him what he wants to here? I could be wrong, but I feel that she has been his personal filter to the outside world. It's quite possible she's said something he doesn't like. Perhaps she was critical about something he said about the team. That shatters the relationship they have for him. She's suddenly told him something he doesn't like. That's it. Gone.
"The demand for perfection leads the narcissist to complain and be constantly dissatisfied." - Anything less than winning to Lewis is a complete loss. 'My tyres man', 'I can't believe you guys f**** me, can't tell you how *** I am'.
"In addition, if your words and expressions aren't congruent, the narcissist will likely respond erroneously or get defensive." - The famous pre season press conference: Interviewer 'With the change in regulations, and the fact that everybody is in the unknown, do you fear that your team may not be able to give you a car capable of winning the WC?' Lewis sounding like hes upset by the question 'Why would I think that? Why would I ever think that? We've won 8 (WCC) in a row. My team don't make mistakes'.
Even as an ex or current Lewis fan.....surely you can see why those things make Lewis a fierce competitor, but also why he's a difficult person to like. Ironically the corporate nature of McLaren and their desire to stifle their drivers personalities may well have been a good thing back in 2007/8 as it stopped people like me seeing what he was really like...
I’m not immediately jumping to his defence, just saying the logic is missing. It's frustrating that you jump so quickly to his defence that you can't look more objectively at Lewis. He's a phenomenal talent, and I was a big fan for many years but he simply has become less likeable to many as the years have gone on. His inability to accept any form of criticism isn't very endearing, and conversely to people like Schumacher and Vettel who's real personalities eventually came to the front of their public persona and largely won even their most harsh critics over towards the end of their careers, Lewis has managed the opposite. I suspect he's not particularly nice to work for or be around sadly, but the same can be said for many sports people or celebrities.
I do feel he demonstrates some strong narcissistic behaviours though, and I think undoubtedly this has probably helped his success. It's why I'm not really much of a fan of his anymore, but I can totally appreciate that he wouldn't be the driver he is without it.
I'll finish with a few quotes from https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/14-signs-of... which are clearly evident in Lewis and which I think go some why to giving us a clue about Angela's departure:
"There is a definite hierarchy, with the narcissist at the top—which is the only place they feel safe. Narcissists have to be the best, the most right, and the most competent; do everything their way; own everything; and control everyone." - Lewis see's himself as the reason for Mercedes success, and his whole external narrative is 'being the best'. It's exactly what drives him to be 'The GOAT' and that very term only satisfies to inflate this.
"Validation for a narcissist counts only if it comes from others. Even then, it doesn't count for much." - Has this not effectively been Angelas job for 7 years? She's there to 'provide support' and tell him what he wants to here? I could be wrong, but I feel that she has been his personal filter to the outside world. It's quite possible she's said something he doesn't like. Perhaps she was critical about something he said about the team. That shatters the relationship they have for him. She's suddenly told him something he doesn't like. That's it. Gone.
"The demand for perfection leads the narcissist to complain and be constantly dissatisfied." - Anything less than winning to Lewis is a complete loss. 'My tyres man', 'I can't believe you guys f**** me, can't tell you how *** I am'.
"In addition, if your words and expressions aren't congruent, the narcissist will likely respond erroneously or get defensive." - The famous pre season press conference: Interviewer 'With the change in regulations, and the fact that everybody is in the unknown, do you fear that your team may not be able to give you a car capable of winning the WC?' Lewis sounding like hes upset by the question 'Why would I think that? Why would I ever think that? We've won 8 (WCC) in a row. My team don't make mistakes'.
Even as an ex or current Lewis fan.....surely you can see why those things make Lewis a fierce competitor, but also why he's a difficult person to like. Ironically the corporate nature of McLaren and their desire to stifle their drivers personalities may well have been a good thing back in 2007/8 as it stopped people like me seeing what he was really like...
Edited by RacerMike on Sunday 19th March 15:18
You’ve assigned loads of feelings/behaviours to him that you have zero idea about, and those ‘prove’ he is a narcissist. You could be right, I have no idea, but you’re saying stuff like he’s a narcissist so Angela left as a result of that. And because she left it proves he’s a narcissist. You’re putting a theory first and then saying saying his behaviour proves the theory because you assign his behaviour to that.
Where do you get him thinking he is the main reason behind Merc’s success? He literally thanks the team all the time so much so many of those who dislike him say it’s fake.
Vettel has plenty of critics (although quite a few are quieter compared to when Hamilton does similar on stuff like rights in the ME etc). I don’t think Vettel’s winning the critics is just him as a person, it’s him not being competition and so the fan boys change their tune. Look at the sudden support for Alonso this year.
You said Max isn’t a narcissist and is a nice guy, yet he’s blamed his team lots for f
king up, he’s physically attacked someone for getting in what he regarded as his way and so on. Yet one is a nice guy and another is a narcissist? And the team not making mistakes - so far the team had been amazing and not making mistakes. If he’d questioned the team it would be evidence he doesn’t trust them and is negative.
My personal thoughts is I have no idea what he’s really like outside the car, but being single, people not knowing who regular friends might be, angry comments when the team does a mistake, being positive at the start of a season and so on are all just completely normal things in F1. My view is we don’t see much of who he really is because of the huge media focus he gets, so he mostly says what he should. The odd occasion we see glimpses when the mask falls - either positive or negative. But you seem to think he is a narcissist first, and therefore any behaviour that might match that gets interpreted that way. The Angela thing is a clear example - we have no idea if she was the one that left, yet for you it’s evidence of Hamilton kicking her out because he’s obsessed with himself.
NRS said:
You’ve assigned loads of feelings/behaviours to him that you have zero idea about, and those ‘prove’ he is a narcissist. You could be right, I have no idea, but you’re saying stuff like he’s a narcissist so Angela left as a result of that. And because she left it proves he’s a narcissist. You’re putting a theory first and then saying saying his behaviour proves the theory because you assign his behaviour to that.
I've not assigned behaviours. I've quoted some personality traits and highlighted some situations where Lewis has said something that aligns with this. I'm not saying that 'proves' anything at all, but am suggesting it may be an example of narcissism, and using that as a reason to say why I've grown to not be a fan of his. NRS said:
Where do you get him thinking he is the main reason behind Merc’s success? He literally thanks the team all the time so much so many of those who dislike him say it’s fake.
I've no doubt his thanks are genuine. Just as much as his fairly severe criticism when they even slightly get it wrong. But it's never his fault is it?NRS said:
Vettel has plenty of critics (although quite a few are quieter compared to when Hamilton does similar on stuff like rights in the ME etc). I don’t think Vettel’s winning the critics is just him as a person, it’s him not being competition and so the fan boys change their tune. Look at the sudden support for Alonso this year.
Main difference is the authenticity of Vettel's behaviour. Just doing things like picking up litter at Silverstone with no attempt to get any press coverage, vs intentionally filming something where you give a cap to a cleaner in the paddock. Again....just an example of why myself and some ex Hamilton fans have drifted away from supporting him.NRS said:
You said Max isn’t a narcissist and is a nice guy, yet he’s blamed his team lots for fking up, he’s physically attacked someone for getting in what he regarded as his way and so on. Yet one is a nice guy and another is a narcissist?
Didn't say Max isn't a narcissist. There almost certainly will be elements of narcissism or some other personality disorder present as there are in many highly successful Sportsmen and women. It's usually what gives them the single mindedness they need to win. All I can comment on though is that, to work with, compared to Lewis, he's a lot more personable and genuine. Again, it's fine that Lewis isn't this....it's just why there are a few of us who have gone off him the more we've learned about him.king up, he’s physically attacked someone for getting in what he regarded as his way and so on. Yet one is a nice guy and another is a narcissist?Biggest issue in the F1 fan community now is the rabid tribalism. People can't seem to accept that others have reasons for not liking the driver they support. You see it on all sides! It was clearly present already to an extent in the Hill/Schumacher era, but I think social media has done a great job of galvanising people against one another. However....anything the TeamLH types say is not going to change my mind on him. I can respect him for being a great driver and for what he's achieved. I can't however agree that he is some persecuted saint who never does anything wrong and is entirely blameless in every scenario.
And to try and get back on topic, I think most of the evidence points to him handing Angela her P45 without much planning or discussion, and clearly she doesn't want to undermine him/look like the bad guy, so she's been sensible and not said anything negative in her statement. The reasons behind Lewis getting rid of her are unknown, but I suspect it's similar to when he 'fired' his Dad. He's not doing well, so the people closest to him are the first to feel the anger/frustration and are the first to go.
Edited by RacerMike on Monday 20th March 09:49
"For the last seven years @cullen_angela has been by my side, pushing me to be the best version of myself. I am a stronger athlete and a better person because of her. So today I hope you’ll join me in wishing her the very best as she takes her next steps to pursue her dreams. Thank you for everything Ang, I can’t wait to see what the future has in store for you"
plus a good image
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cp47CCJOkfh/
Also "We keep texting every day, massively supportive and I'm massively supportive of her, so grateful to have had her with me on this journey. She's one of my closest friends and continues to be."
plus a good image
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cp47CCJOkfh/
Also "We keep texting every day, massively supportive and I'm massively supportive of her, so grateful to have had her with me on this journey. She's one of my closest friends and continues to be."
Edited by Byker28i on Monday 20th March 10:12
And Angelas side
Exactly 7 yrs ago on this day I was standing in the F1 paddock for the first time at the Australian GP. Today I’m excited to share I’m off on my next adventure.
I am so grateful and blessed to have had this incredible journey in F1 and I know my story will continue.
Thanks to the MB team, who have been my family for the past 7 years.
And @lewishamilton you GOAT !! It’s been such an honour and pleasure to stand along side you I’m so proud of you and everything you have achieved.
Thank you for supporting me, believing in me and showing me the limitless potential we all have within us.
I am so excited to watch the next chapter for you. There’s nothing you can’t do.
Don’t stop believing…
Lives journey is one big wave ,
Keep riding
Dream big
As Dreams do come true
Forever by your side
STILL WE RISE✌🏽💫🌊
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cp4u9fKsrxK/
Exactly 7 yrs ago on this day I was standing in the F1 paddock for the first time at the Australian GP. Today I’m excited to share I’m off on my next adventure.
I am so grateful and blessed to have had this incredible journey in F1 and I know my story will continue.
Thanks to the MB team, who have been my family for the past 7 years.
And @lewishamilton you GOAT !! It’s been such an honour and pleasure to stand along side you I’m so proud of you and everything you have achieved.
Thank you for supporting me, believing in me and showing me the limitless potential we all have within us.
I am so excited to watch the next chapter for you. There’s nothing you can’t do.
Don’t stop believing…
Lives journey is one big wave ,
Keep riding
Dream big
As Dreams do come true
Forever by your side
STILL WE RISE✌🏽💫🌊
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cp4u9fKsrxK/
RacerMike said:
All I can comment on though is that, to work with, compared to Lewis, he's a lot more personable and genuine. Again, it's fine that Lewis isn't this....it's just why there are a few of us who have gone off him the more we've learned about him.
This directly contradicts what many people, who have worked with Lewis say about him. Have you worked with Hamilton? if not then all you are doing here is mindless speculation with no basis in reality whatsoever. Why you feel the need to do this with such commitment is a mystery.
And kind of weird.
paulguitar said:
RacerMike said:
All I can comment on though is that, to work with, compared to Lewis, he's a lot more personable and genuine. Again, it's fine that Lewis isn't this....it's just why there are a few of us who have gone off him the more we've learned about him.
This directly contradicts what many people, who have worked with Lewis say about him. Have you worked with Hamilton? if not then all you are doing here is mindless speculation with no basis in reality whatsoever. Why you feel the need to do this with such commitment is a mystery.
And kind of weird.
It's ok for you to like him and me not. It's not any weirder than any of us on here discussing a speculative topic about his personal trainer. I really don't understand why you or anyone else need to get so wildly offended on his behalf. We're all here having a discussion and it's normal for people to have different views. But one thing I never do with anything on here is wildly speculate.
Edited by RacerMike on Monday 20th March 11:31
RacerMike said:
I know people who have worked directly with both Lewis and Max. One currently works very closely with Max and has had lots of interactions with Lewis as a result. He's never impolite as such, just behaves very differently to all the other drivers and makes a lot of people wait and has a very 'I'm Lewis Hamilton and the rules don't apply to me' attitude like turning up to the press conference 30mins late whenever he's on the podium as he 'has to take a shower' whilst the other two drivers just sit there with the press waiting for him to arrive.
So you haven't met him. There are many, many others who tell a very different story. People who actually know him well, and have done for years, like matt Bishop. paulguitar said:
So you haven't met him. There are many, many others who tell a very different story. People who actually know him well, and have done for years, like matt Bishop.
My Cousin, was on the away race team for years, now works in the factory. Hasn't a bad word to say about him, in fact comments that Lewis still remembers his name when they meet/pass at the factory.
Byker28i said:
paulguitar said:
So you haven't met him. There are many, many others who tell a very different story. People who actually know him well, and have done for years, like matt Bishop.
My Cousin, was on the away race team for years, now works in the factory. Hasn't a bad word to say about him, in fact comments that Lewis still remembers his name when they meet/pass at the factory.Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff