Official 2023 Australian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Poll: Official 2023 Australian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Total Members Polled: 170
Discussion
Sandpit Steve said:
DRS was an afterthought with these new regulations, the original rules didn’t include it, but they thought about it for a while before deciding to keep it. The evidence is now clear that these cars can follow closely, so the artificial assistance can probably be retired at the end of this season.
No quite so clear, unless it's particularly affecting the Ferraris. https://www.planetf1.com/news/carlos-sainz-2023-ca...
Stealthracer said:
Yazza54 said:
... F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of innovation ...
I thought it was supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport also.At the moment it's just the pinnacle of boredom.
carlo996 said:
Yazza54 said:
Sounds like the Merc is the problem not the Red Bull
F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of innovation within the envelope of the regs, the fact that one team is doing it better than another isn't a valid reason to make changes to slow them down or negate their advantage. The rest of the field need to get their s
t together... And I do not say this as a red bull fan boy, because I am not.
Exactly right. F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of innovation within the envelope of the regs, the fact that one team is doing it better than another isn't a valid reason to make changes to slow them down or negate their advantage. The rest of the field need to get their s
t together... And I do not say this as a red bull fan boy, because I am not. DRS varies a lot at the moment. McLaren couldn't overtake even with DRS against a non-DRS car on multiple attempts. Whereas RB could probably overtake all the other cars if they were using DRS and RB's DRS was not working. That said, I don't think we've seen any good overtakes through a few corners this season, they've all been DRS on the straights or a 1 and done example on a corner?
Yep… exactly what Horner used to say during RedBull’s first era of dominance, the other teams need to build a better car. Moaned constantly when Merc dominated though. Can’t stand Horner/RedBull but now…. the others need to build a better car.True, but then the rules basically heavily restrict that due to limited budgets/development time and testing. So you're more limited to one shot and if that goes wrong it's wait until some rule changes.
HighwayStar said:
carlo996 said:
Yazza54 said:
Sounds like the Merc is the problem not the Red Bull
F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of innovation within the envelope of the regs, the fact that one team is doing it better than another isn't a valid reason to make changes to slow them down or negate their advantage. The rest of the field need to get their st together... And I do not say this as a red bull fan boy, because I am not.
Exactly right. F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of innovation within the envelope of the regs, the fact that one team is doing it better than another isn't a valid reason to make changes to slow them down or negate their advantage. The rest of the field need to get their s
t together... And I do not say this as a red bull fan boy, because I am not. NRS said:
DRS varies a lot at the moment. McLaren couldn't overtake even with DRS against a non-DRS car on multiple attempts. Whereas RB could probably overtake all the other cars if they were using DRS and RB's DRS was not working. That said, I don't think we've seen any good overtakes through a few corners this season, they've all been DRS on the straights or a 1 and done example on a corner?
Norris had a great scrap with Hulk and it took him a few laps for him to get by. It's an example of how DRS should work - help the car behind to get close enough to genuinely attempt an overtake - but it's probably a bit more complex to perfect.Battling for more than one corner don't happen too often, much rarer in the pre-DRS days - everyone points to Villevneuve & Arnoux.
carlo996 said:
Yazza54 said:
Sounds like the Merc is the problem not the Red Bull
F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of innovation within the envelope of the regs, the fact that one team is doing it better than another isn't a valid reason to make changes to slow them down or negate their advantage. The rest of the field need to get their st together... And I do not say this as a red bull fan boy, because I am not.
Exactly right. F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of innovation within the envelope of the regs, the fact that one team is doing it better than another isn't a valid reason to make changes to slow them down or negate their advantage. The rest of the field need to get their s
t together... And I do not say this as a red bull fan boy, because I am not. The issue is, only RB (and possibly Aston following Dan Fallows appointment) appear to actually know where the magic is happening.
I really can't get on board with the optimism and hope many seem to have for seeing them ditch DRS next season - they have increased it's use this system, which shows there is no intent or interest for removing it anytime remotely soon.
If they wanted to 'see how it went' with these new cars and there was a decent possibility they might consider scrapping it, then they would have tried the cars with the established DRS zones and anywhere in between that they could have wedged in another DRS would be the perfect opportunity to NOT put DRS there and actually see if the cars can manage passes without it.
But that's not what they've done is it? They've gone headlong into expanding DRS yet there are quite a few on here predicting it could soon be gone as it's 'proven' not needed. I respect others opinion but that particular opinion flies in the face of what F1 are actually doing..
A big problem is that whilst DRS was intended as a device to allow more passing in a race, the FIA also decided to allow it's use in quali, which I'm sure seemed like a no-brainer at the time, it would set fastest laps at most circuits very quickly which is quite exciting. If they withdraw DRS not though... All the cars quali stats would take a rather unimpressive nosedive as a result.
Overall, the case for withdrawing it as an idea is reasonable, but the case for believing the sport is even remotely considering removing it, is pie in the sky hope above reality imo.
Personally, I could take it or leave it.
If they wanted to 'see how it went' with these new cars and there was a decent possibility they might consider scrapping it, then they would have tried the cars with the established DRS zones and anywhere in between that they could have wedged in another DRS would be the perfect opportunity to NOT put DRS there and actually see if the cars can manage passes without it.
But that's not what they've done is it? They've gone headlong into expanding DRS yet there are quite a few on here predicting it could soon be gone as it's 'proven' not needed. I respect others opinion but that particular opinion flies in the face of what F1 are actually doing..
A big problem is that whilst DRS was intended as a device to allow more passing in a race, the FIA also decided to allow it's use in quali, which I'm sure seemed like a no-brainer at the time, it would set fastest laps at most circuits very quickly which is quite exciting. If they withdraw DRS not though... All the cars quali stats would take a rather unimpressive nosedive as a result.
Overall, the case for withdrawing it as an idea is reasonable, but the case for believing the sport is even remotely considering removing it, is pie in the sky hope above reality imo.
Personally, I could take it or leave it.
If Liberty is obsessed with short term metrics, the fate of DRS will depend entirely on whether they believe Red Bull dominance is hurting the numbers.
Horner is smart enough to try and sandbag the true advantage it is giving, the irony being that Verstappen appears to be less smart in understanding when not to shoot the goose.
Horner is smart enough to try and sandbag the true advantage it is giving, the irony being that Verstappen appears to be less smart in understanding when not to shoot the goose.
mat205125 said:
Stealthracer said:
Well with the amount of downforce generated by the underbody these days, the wings could come off. Then we could say goodbye to DRS as well.
They'll never remove that size of branding real estate from the designsEdited by Yazza54 on Wednesday 5th April 16:08
Yazza54 said:
mat205125 said:
Stealthracer said:
Well with the amount of downforce generated by the underbody these days, the wings could come off. Then we could say goodbye to DRS as well.
They'll never remove that size of branding real estate from the designsEdited by Yazza54 on Wednesday 5th April 16:08
entropy said:
Yazza54 said:
mat205125 said:
Stealthracer said:
Well with the amount of downforce generated by the underbody these days, the wings could come off. Then we could say goodbye to DRS as well.
They'll never remove that size of branding real estate from the designsEdited by Yazza54 on Wednesday 5th April 16:08
You must understand that the cars design currently as a whole rely on the wings as an integral part of the package, they can't just be removed... Unless you want to see another host of regulation changes and another arms race. No thanks.
The wings on the current cars play a huge role in allowing the cars to follow. If the issue with the wings is merely the DRS, then it could just be disabled. Problem then is the racing will be even more boring. It's a toss up between allowing artificial overtaking or barely any overtaking at all.
Maybe no DRS and deploying the electrical power only allowed for the overtaking car would be better? Still somewhat artificial but at least there's more skill involved in saving it up and deploying it.
Edited by Yazza54 on Wednesday 5th April 18:42
Yazza54 said:
How is that relevant
You must understand that the cars design currently as a whole rely on the wings as an integral part of the package, they can't just be removed... Unless you want to see another host of regulation changes and another arms race. No thanks.
The wings on the current cars play a huge role in allowing the cars to follow. If the issue with the wings is merely the DRS, then it could just be disabled. Problem then is the racing will be even more boring. It's a toss up between allowing artificial overtaking or barely any overtaking at all.
Maybe no DRS and deploying the electrical power only allowed for the overtaking car would be better? Still somewhat artificial but at least there's more skill involved in saving it up and deploying it.
Aero is much more sophisticated now than it was in the 80s. Not just a device to produce downforce, for nearly a couple of decades the front wings have been able to affect specific airflow such as the y250 axis and the controversial Merc 'sticky uppy bits'.You must understand that the cars design currently as a whole rely on the wings as an integral part of the package, they can't just be removed... Unless you want to see another host of regulation changes and another arms race. No thanks.
The wings on the current cars play a huge role in allowing the cars to follow. If the issue with the wings is merely the DRS, then it could just be disabled. Problem then is the racing will be even more boring. It's a toss up between allowing artificial overtaking or barely any overtaking at all.
Maybe no DRS and deploying the electrical power only allowed for the overtaking car would be better? Still somewhat artificial but at least there's more skill involved in saving it up and deploying it.
Edited by Yazza54 on Wednesday 5th April 18:42
Today's tunnels are probably a similar in size to the 70s/80s and probably more sophisticated. They could probably run without the front wings, less drag but at the cost of lost advertising revenue stream real estate.
entropy said:
Yazza54 said:
How is that relevant
You must understand that the cars design currently as a whole rely on the wings as an integral part of the package, they can't just be removed... Unless you want to see another host of regulation changes and another arms race. No thanks.
The wings on the current cars play a huge role in allowing the cars to follow. If the issue with the wings is merely the DRS, then it could just be disabled. Problem then is the racing will be even more boring. It's a toss up between allowing artificial overtaking or barely any overtaking at all.
Maybe no DRS and deploying the electrical power only allowed for the overtaking car would be better? Still somewhat artificial but at least there's more skill involved in saving it up and deploying it.
Aero is much more sophisticated now than it was in the 80s. Not just a device to produce downforce, for nearly a couple of decades the front wings have been able to affect specific airflow such as the y250 axis and the controversial Merc 'sticky uppy bits'.You must understand that the cars design currently as a whole rely on the wings as an integral part of the package, they can't just be removed... Unless you want to see another host of regulation changes and another arms race. No thanks.
The wings on the current cars play a huge role in allowing the cars to follow. If the issue with the wings is merely the DRS, then it could just be disabled. Problem then is the racing will be even more boring. It's a toss up between allowing artificial overtaking or barely any overtaking at all.
Maybe no DRS and deploying the electrical power only allowed for the overtaking car would be better? Still somewhat artificial but at least there's more skill involved in saving it up and deploying it.
Edited by Yazza54 on Wednesday 5th April 18:42
Today's tunnels are probably a similar in size to the 70s/80s and probably more sophisticated. They could probably run without the front wings, less drag but at the cost of lost advertising revenue stream real estate.
I don't think just removing the front one would provide any real benefit at all anyway, and the rear one is supposedly actually helping them follow eachother the way they are currently designed as it directs the airflow exiting the diffuser.
It's a shame, but I think it just is what it is, any cars relying on aero struggle like hell to follow eachother closely..
Even the sports racing cars I race which have a very small amount of downforce can massively wash out at the front end when closely following another car, so these high down force formula cars must be a nightmare to drive when following someone.
Yazza54 said:
I don't think just removing the front one would provide any real benefit at all anyway, and the rear one is supposedly actually helping them follow eachother the way they are currently designed as it directs the airflow exiting the diffuser.
It's a shame, but I think it just is what it is, any cars relying on aero struggle like hell to follow eachother closely..
Even the sports racing cars I race which have a very small amount of downforce can massively wash out at the front end when closely following another car, so these high down force formula cars must be a nightmare to drive when following someone.
At the Saudi Arabian GP Carlos Said said the cars are becoming more difficult to follow and reckons there's more dirty air than last year. It could be Ferrari not good in dirty like Mercs were in the previous regs.It's a shame, but I think it just is what it is, any cars relying on aero struggle like hell to follow eachother closely..
Even the sports racing cars I race which have a very small amount of downforce can massively wash out at the front end when closely following another car, so these high down force formula cars must be a nightmare to drive when following someone.
Fact is wings create drag and dirty air. Just look at how aero has affected the racing in MotoGP - it's made the racing worse and worse in the last couple of years.
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