Lewis Hamilton to Ferrari

[nickfrog]

Yes they're a bit stuck with the zero pod concept. They simply can't afford for it not to work as that would set them back a couple of years. But it's still not working.... Will it ever work?

[mat205125]

Muzzer79 said:

rev-erend said:

Let's face it. Hamilton's pretty much finished. Even young George is showing him the way.

Current F1 standings

Verstappen 119 pts
Perez 105 pts
Alonso 75 pts
Hamilton 56 pts
Sainz 44 pts
Russell 40 pts

Hard to show the way from behind.......

Here we go again!

Selective statistic choices, using the championship points as evidence, where as the championship points in 2022 were dismissed as being evidence of Russell's superiority.

Ignoring Russell's DNF from car failure this year, and his current 4 to 1 qualifying ratio too.

Whilst calling Hamilton "finished" is a little extreme, it's hard to make a case for him being the better performer in 2023 objectively, without looking at one (ultimately important!) points measure only.

[mat205125]

nickfrog said:

Yes they're a bit stuck with the zero pod concept. They simply can't afford for it not to work as that would set them back a couple of years. But it's still not working.... Will it ever work?

This is exactly the kind of problem that they would have thrown cash and resources at in the past.

[nickfrog]

mat205125 said:

Selective statistic choices, using the championship points as evidence, where as the championship points in 2022 were dismissed as being evidence of Russell's superiority.

Or perhaps just evidence that they chose Ham to be the mule for testing wacky solutions for quite a big part of the season? Who knows?

[MustangGT]

mat205125 said:

Here we go again!

Selective statistic choices, using the championship points as evidence, where as the championship points in 2022 were dismissed as being evidence of Russell's superiority.

Ignoring Russell's DNF from car failure this year, and his current 4 to 1 qualifying ratio too.

Whilst calling Hamilton "finished" is a little extreme, it's hard to make a case for him being the better performer in 2023 objectively, without looking at one (ultimately important!) points measure only.

What measure do you suggest?

How about passes on track/positions gained in races?

[GiantCardboardPlato]

Jasandjules said:

InformationSuperHighway said:

I agree, I really wish he'd have won in '21 and then retired as the greatest of all time / on a high.

It now feel a little desperate and I really see his chances dwindling. Hoping to another team I don't see as a gracious way of trying to get it done.

And that is the thing about Masi and the Red Bull thing. They actually cost him the chance of being the record winning WDC driver. It was far, far more than just a single race or even a single WDC. That the FIA allowed it is one of the reason the sport is now just a TV show and more a joke than anything I am keen to follow (unlike the last 40 years of my life!)

this is true - but they didn't just cost him the chance - they stole his achievement.

[JiggyJaggy]

simon_harris said:

As a Hamilton fan I'd love to see him finish in a competitive red car

Post office van?

[Muzzer79]

mat205125 said:

Muzzer79 said:

rev-erend said:

Let's face it. Hamilton's pretty much finished. Even young George is showing him the way.

Current F1 standings

Verstappen 119 pts
Perez 105 pts
Alonso 75 pts
Hamilton 56 pts
Sainz 44 pts
Russell 40 pts

Hard to show the way from behind.......

Here we go again!

Selective statistic choices, using the championship points as evidence, where as the championship points in 2022 were dismissed as being evidence of Russell's superiority.

Ignoring Russell's DNF from car failure this year, and his current 4 to 1 qualifying ratio too.

The point is not to suggest that Hamilton is better

The point is to acknowledge that neither is 'showing the way' to the other. They're actually pretty even.

The final point is to suggest that Hamilton is "pretty much finished" is ludicrous when looking at one measure, being the points table.

[Sandpit Steve]

nickfrog said:

Or perhaps just evidence that they chose Ham to be the mule for testing wacky solutions for quite a big part of the season? Who knows?

Which is exactly what happened last year.

They’re two of the top three drivers in the field, although the old man Alonso is doing a good job of making that at op four at the moment. George’s consistency in a relatively crap car last season was brilliant to watch, and there’s clearly no doubting Lewis’s ability.

Left to race, and with the fastest car, they’d likely be just as close over a season as Lewis and Nico were in 2016.

[realjv]

I'm sceptical about the validity of the story given that it spun up in the news void created by the cancellation of Imola.

However......

If there is any validity to it then all it suggests is: -
1. Someone on Team Hamilton is doing their job correctly since having the appearance of demand elsewhere is good for them in negotiation's with Mercedes. We know historically that Ferrari can be very flexible in their demands on drivers outside of race weekends - see Raikkonen doing very little - and I can imagine that will be one of the main points of negotiation with Merc.

2. Someone at Ferrari is doing their job. I would be very surprised if they didn't have any conversations even if they only progressed as far as basic pleasantries since that's just good business. Neither side has anything to lose and everything to gain by maintaining good relationships because you never know what may happen in future.

3. Someone at Ferrari is doing their job because this is Formula 1 and anytime you can needle and slightly disrupt the competition then you do it. All you need do is drop a few ambiguous suggestions to fire up the rumour mill and away it goes.

[Nova Gyna]

Lewis says no contact from Ferrari.

[Teppic]

Nova Gyna said:

Lewis says no contact from Ferrari.

Fred Vasseur has also rubbished the rumours.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vasseur-rubbish...

[InformationSuperHighway]

Teppic said:

Nova Gyna said:

Lewis says no contact from Ferrari.

Fred Vasseur has also rubbished the rumours.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vasseur-rubbish...

So we should expect an announcement of him signing soon then

[willy wombat]

When I look at the absurd clothing items Ferrari keep trying to sell me, it’s obvious that they and Lewis would be an ideal partnership.

[thegreenhell]

Teppic said:

Nova Gyna said:

Lewis says no contact from Ferrari.

Fred Vasseur has also rubbished the rumours.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vasseur-rubbish...

Was anyone expecting either of them to say "Well done guys, you've rumbled us"? Even if they had already signed a contract they would both be denying it until an official announcement is made, and it's far too early in the season for a bombshell announcement like that.

[TheDeuce]

The only reason this rumour is getting any attention is that a theme in F1 media right now is that Mercedes are 'in trouble' and 'will Lewis jump ship?'.

Reality check: Mercedes are above Ferrari in WCC, Lewis is above both Ferrari drivers in WDC. Mercedes are almost guaranteed to take 2nd from AMR in WCC. Mercedes might be on a trajectory to end 2nd this season, which is indeed a change from what the team and Lewis were used to for so many years, but in real terms, they're still very much a top team and certainly in better overall shape than Ferrari.

If the rumours are to be believed true, we have to believe that Lewis wants to go to a team he has repeatedly said he has no interest in going to, we have to believe he wants to finish races lower down the order more often, we have to believe that he wants to go to a team where there is more of a language barrier and a lot of really silly mistakes are made.

I don't believe that is likely personally.

[the-norseman]

TheDeuce said:

Reality check: Mercedes are above Ferrari in WCC, Lewis is above both Ferrari drivers in WDC.

Mclaren were above Mercedes in the WCC, Lewis was above both Mercedes drivers in the WDC.

[F355GTS]

willy wombat said:

When I look at the absurd clothing items Ferrari keep trying to sell me, it’s obvious that they and Lewis would be an ideal partnership.

[abzmike]

He doesn’t need the money, but it still talks. For say $100mil a year he’ll be selling branded key rings in the paddock. It could be a bit like Mansell, a two year cameo where a lack of actual success doesn’t diminish the challenge and romance.

[TheDeuce]

the-norseman said:

TheDeuce said:

Reality check: Mercedes are above Ferrari in WCC, Lewis is above both Ferrari drivers in WDC.

Mclaren were above Mercedes in the WCC, Lewis was above both Mercedes drivers in the WDC.

But he was shown what we must assume was evidence of the likelihood Mercedes were about to jump everyone when he went to them - and he was convinced by one of the wisest and most trustworthy people in the sport, Niki. If Niki said something it was believable as he had no ability to BS.

Contrast that to a potential move to Ferrari.. I think as a bare minimum Lewis would need to see real evidence that the new TP has made effective structural changes over a full season that will limit the mistakes, the often appalling strategy choices and the fact that sometimes, the cars have bits fall off.. This isn't cloak and daggers stuff Lewis can be shown that we can't see - we can all see that the team is a bit useless right now, given the potential of the car they have.

Makes no sense to me for a driver to leave a team ahead of Ferrari for Ferrari, when Ferrari have easy to identify issues to solve.