F1 has rejected Andretti's entry bid
Discussion
520TORQUES said:
No disrespect to them, but the F1 connection with the Andretti's is ancient history.
Mario was a great all round driver from an era where they drove anything with wheels.
Michael was a total flop in F1, didn't commit properly to what was a fantastic opportunity and was booted out mid season.
They are mostly a USA name, but not as constructors, mostly as indycar drivers who grew to customer car team runners under their own name.
Attempting F1 as a constructor is an enormous task. Could they pull it off? When you consider Haas has been a Ferrari customer team well embedded within the Ferrari technical heart working with one of the best chassis designers and manufacturers, it would have to be a minor miracle for Andretti to pull it off based in the USA.
Should they get the opportunity? Why not, the worst that can happen is they go bankrupt, and it's their money to throw away. If they cant build something fast enough they will simply not qualify for the race. If the chassis is not safe, it wont pass the crash tests.
With the greatest of respect, and perhaps with the benefit of greater age, Mario drove a huge range of F1 machinery, including ground effect. It's difficult to imagine an F1 individual who could more bring interest to the sport.Mario was a great all round driver from an era where they drove anything with wheels.
Michael was a total flop in F1, didn't commit properly to what was a fantastic opportunity and was booted out mid season.
They are mostly a USA name, but not as constructors, mostly as indycar drivers who grew to customer car team runners under their own name.
Attempting F1 as a constructor is an enormous task. Could they pull it off? When you consider Haas has been a Ferrari customer team well embedded within the Ferrari technical heart working with one of the best chassis designers and manufacturers, it would have to be a minor miracle for Andretti to pull it off based in the USA.
Should they get the opportunity? Why not, the worst that can happen is they go bankrupt, and it's their money to throw away. If they cant build something fast enough they will simply not qualify for the race. If the chassis is not safe, it wont pass the crash tests.
It's worth listening to the Bring Back V10 episode about Michael's ill fated foray. Writing off his F1 career as a total flop is as lazy as it is easy. Up against Senna, he made mistakes that didn't help and it was a nightmare for him, but he also was unlucky. In different circumstances he had the skill to have been far more successful.
I agree they ought to be given the chance, if only to establish the need for 22 or 24 cars on the grid. The driver market is stagnant because of the franchise model and needs to provide greater opportunity for younger drivers.
Some of these arguments against them read as if you think it will be a bunch of redneck Indycar mechanics scratching their heads and trying to build an F1 car for the first time, whereas they'll just hire a whole bunch of very experienced F1 people to do it. They already have Nick Chester (former technical director of Renault F1) on board as TD. Of course there will be a lot of new team teething issues, and that would be the same for any brand new team entering under any circumstances, but they will get enough experienced F1 people to know what they need to do to build a competitive car and a competitive team.
Leithen said:
With the greatest of respect, and perhaps with the benefit of greater age, Mario drove a huge range of F1 machinery, including ground effect. It's difficult to imagine an F1 individual who could more bring interest to the sport.
It's worth listening to the Bring Back V10 episode about Michael's ill fated foray. Writing off his F1 career as a total flop is as lazy as it is easy. Up against Senna, he made mistakes that didn't help and it was a nightmare for him, but he also was unlucky. In different circumstances he had the skill to have been far more successful.
I agree they ought to be given the chance, if only to establish the need for 22 or 24 cars on the grid. The driver market is stagnant because of the franchise model and needs to provide greater opportunity for younger drivers.
I'm well aware of Mario's career. It's worth listening to the Bring Back V10 episode about Michael's ill fated foray. Writing off his F1 career as a total flop is as lazy as it is easy. Up against Senna, he made mistakes that didn't help and it was a nightmare for him, but he also was unlucky. In different circumstances he had the skill to have been far more successful.
I agree they ought to be given the chance, if only to establish the need for 22 or 24 cars on the grid. The driver market is stagnant because of the franchise model and needs to provide greater opportunity for younger drivers.
Michaels biggest mistake was commuting from the USA rather than moving to the UK and spending every minute he could with the team. He was up against Senna and had a very fast Mika waiting for an opportunity. This was back when they had full time testing teams, they should have been sick of him jumping in the car, instead he went home to the USA. That was crazy. His results were the icing on the cake. It was his whole approach that killed his F1 career.
520TORQUES said:
Michaels biggest mistake was commuting from the USA rather than moving to the UK and spending every minute he could with the team. He was up against Senna and had a very fast Mika waiting for an opportunity. This was back when they had full time testing teams, they should have been sick of him jumping in the car, instead he went home to the USA. That was crazy. His results were the icing on the cake. It was his whole approach that killed his F1 career.
All of which is well addressed in the podcast, which rather than try to transcribe, I urge anyone who is interested to listen to. https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/bring-back-v10s...
The reality was far more complicated and the time Michael had to test the car was limited by various factors including race weekend lap restrictions for that particular year.
520TORQUES said:
I'm well aware of Mario's career.
Michaels biggest mistake was commuting from the USA rather than moving to the UK and spending every minute he could with the team. He was up against Senna and had a very fast Mika waiting for an opportunity. This was back when they had full time testing teams, they should have been sick of him jumping in the car, instead he went home to the USA. That was crazy. His results were the icing on the cake. It was his whole approach that killed his F1 career.
He was fast but against Senna he was never going to make it. I remember watching him in qualifying for the Donington GP and was impressed - he wasn't a no hoper . Michaels biggest mistake was commuting from the USA rather than moving to the UK and spending every minute he could with the team. He was up against Senna and had a very fast Mika waiting for an opportunity. This was back when they had full time testing teams, they should have been sick of him jumping in the car, instead he went home to the USA. That was crazy. His results were the icing on the cake. It was his whole approach that killed his F1 career.
But why does that even matter? Why . all of sudden , do F1 teams steeped in self interest , get the opportunity even to comment on new entrants ? Why can this grubby little cartel (many of whom seem unaware of their own shaky debuts into F1 ) even get consulted ? Nobody votes for a cut in wages and all the white noise about the potential of new teams is just camouflage - they don't want anybody to dilute the cash .
As far as I'm concerned , if your car is legal and your driver is licensed you should be able to enter. Given the cost, it is never going to be a flood and new blood is essential to avoid stagnation -and a 26 car grid is damn sight better than 20. Teams like McLaren , Williams , Aston Martin , whatever Toro Rosso is this week and Alpine all had very shaky origins - who the f**k are they to sneer at new teams ?
coppice said:
520TORQUES said:
I'm well aware of Mario's career.
Michaels biggest mistake was commuting from the USA rather than moving to the UK and spending every minute he could with the team. He was up against Senna and had a very fast Mika waiting for an opportunity. This was back when they had full time testing teams, they should have been sick of him jumping in the car, instead he went home to the USA. That was crazy. His results were the icing on the cake. It was his whole approach that killed his F1 career.
He was fast but against Senna he was never going to make it. I remember watching him in qualifying for the Donington GP and was impressed - he wasn't a no hoper . Michaels biggest mistake was commuting from the USA rather than moving to the UK and spending every minute he could with the team. He was up against Senna and had a very fast Mika waiting for an opportunity. This was back when they had full time testing teams, they should have been sick of him jumping in the car, instead he went home to the USA. That was crazy. His results were the icing on the cake. It was his whole approach that killed his F1 career.
But why does that even matter? Why . all of sudden , do F1 teams steeped in self interest , get the opportunity even to comment on new entrants ? Why can this grubby little cartel (many of whom seem unaware of their own shaky debuts into F1 ) even get consulted ? Nobody votes for a cut in wages and all the white noise about the potential of new teams is just camouflage - they don't want anybody to dilute the cash .
As far as I'm concerned , if your car is legal and your driver is licensed you should be able to enter. Given the cost, it is never going to be a flood and new blood is essential to avoid stagnation -and a 26 car grid is damn sight better than 20. Teams like McLaren , Williams , Aston Martin , whatever Toro Rosso is this week and Alpine all had very shaky origins - who the f**k are they to sneer at new teams ?
AceRockatansky said:
Surely an American team, more action to watch and the prospect of seeing a new entrant will only bring more cash, sponsors and viewers to the sport.
I am drawn to an American team but indifferent to the prospect of more cash (it needs even more ? ) sponsors (meh ) or viewers. In fact anything to put off the influx of yet more new fans would be fine with me. Their ignorance, tribalism and general silliness has already devalued it. Andretti opened their new Silverstone based UK facility today.
https://twitter.com/AndrettiGlobal/status/17780707...
https://twitter.com/AndrettiGlobal/status/17780707...
Castellet said:
Surely this would have properly boosted the U.S. support that F1 dearly seeks ?
Forgot it’s not a sport it’s a business
F1 CEO Stefano Domenicali said: "As we always said, we need to make sure that the decision is right for the business”
^^this^^Forgot it’s not a sport it’s a business
F1 CEO Stefano Domenicali said: "As we always said, we need to make sure that the decision is right for the business”
plus Andretti up against Anthony Hamilton's plans to get his place on the grid. AH is a slick lobbyist.
Bo_apex said:
Castellet said:
Surely this would have properly boosted the U.S. support that F1 dearly seeks ?
Forgot it’s not a sport it’s a business
F1 CEO Stefano Domenicali said: "As we always said, we need to make sure that the decision is right for the business”
^^this^^Forgot it’s not a sport it’s a business
F1 CEO Stefano Domenicali said: "As we always said, we need to make sure that the decision is right for the business”
plus Andretti up against Anthony Hamilton's plans to get his place on the grid. AH is a slick lobbyist.
Bo_apex said:
Castellet said:
Surely this would have properly boosted the U.S. support that F1 dearly seeks ?
Forgot it’s not a sport it’s a business
F1 CEO Stefano Domenicali said: "As we always said, we need to make sure that the decision is right for the business”
^^this^^Forgot it’s not a sport it’s a business
F1 CEO Stefano Domenicali said: "As we always said, we need to make sure that the decision is right for the business”
plus Andretti up against Anthony Hamilton's plans to get his place on the grid. AH is a slick lobbyist.
FourWheelDrift said:
Andretti opened their new Silverstone based UK facility today.
https://twitter.com/AndrettiGlobal/status/17780707...
Excellent. I wish them the best of luck. https://twitter.com/AndrettiGlobal/status/17780707...
Now, where can I get one of those jackets?
MrBig said:
FourWheelDrift said:
Andretti opened their new Silverstone based UK facility today.
https://twitter.com/AndrettiGlobal/status/17780707...
Excellent. I wish them the best of luck. https://twitter.com/AndrettiGlobal/status/17780707...
Now, where can I get one of those jackets?
Siao said:
Bo_apex said:
Castellet said:
Surely this would have properly boosted the U.S. support that F1 dearly seeks ?
Forgot it’s not a sport it’s a business
F1 CEO Stefano Domenicali said: "As we always said, we need to make sure that the decision is right for the business”
^^this^^Forgot it’s not a sport it’s a business
F1 CEO Stefano Domenicali said: "As we always said, we need to make sure that the decision is right for the business”
plus Andretti up against Anthony Hamilton's plans to get his place on the grid. AH is a slick lobbyist.
But good luck to Andretti !
coppice said:
He was fast but against Senna he was never going to make it. I remember watching him in qualifying for the Donington GP and was impressed - he wasn't a no hoper .
But why does that even matter? Why . all of sudden , do F1 teams steeped in self interest , get the opportunity even to comment on new entrants ? Why can this grubby little cartel (many of whom seem unaware of their own shaky debuts into F1 ) even get consulted ? Nobody votes for a cut in wages and all the white noise about the potential of new teams is just camouflage - they don't want anybody to dilute the cash .
As far as I'm concerned , if your car is legal and your driver is licensed you should be able to enter. Given the cost, it is never going to be a flood and new blood is essential to avoid stagnation -and a 26 car grid is damn sight better than 20. Teams like McLaren , Williams , Aston Martin , whatever Toro Rosso is this week and Alpine all had very shaky origins - who the f**k are they to sneer at new teams ?
very much thisBut why does that even matter? Why . all of sudden , do F1 teams steeped in self interest , get the opportunity even to comment on new entrants ? Why can this grubby little cartel (many of whom seem unaware of their own shaky debuts into F1 ) even get consulted ? Nobody votes for a cut in wages and all the white noise about the potential of new teams is just camouflage - they don't want anybody to dilute the cash .
As far as I'm concerned , if your car is legal and your driver is licensed you should be able to enter. Given the cost, it is never going to be a flood and new blood is essential to avoid stagnation -and a 26 car grid is damn sight better than 20. Teams like McLaren , Williams , Aston Martin , whatever Toro Rosso is this week and Alpine all had very shaky origins - who the f**k are they to sneer at new teams ?
coppice said:
But why does that even matter? Why . all of sudden , do F1 teams steeped in self interest , get the opportunity even to comment on new entrants ? Why can this grubby little cartel (many of whom seem unaware of their own shaky debuts into F1 ) even get consulted ? Nobody votes for a cut in wages and all the white noise about the potential of new teams is just camouflage - they don't want anybody to dilute the cash .
Exactly the last point. F1 used to be an expensive way of winning a motor race. Now its a cheap way of worldwide marketing. Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff