Official 2024 Chinese Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

[paulguitar]

TheDeuce said:

F1 became worth billions by courting the manufacturers desire to take part and spend huge amounts of money doing so, to create the cars and the show that it soon became.

I think commercially, that's the opposite of screwing up.

Commercially, maybe. In every other way, as Brundle says, the worst decision the sport has ever made was to implement the lawnmower engines.


There must be some way to make them more interesting again.

[Forester1965]

MustangGT said:

Just one small problem with this, much though we would like it, is that there are no manufacturers willing to waste multi-millions on an engine that has no relevance to road cars.

There are plenty who could and would. The likes of Cosworth/Riccardo/Judd etc.

Previously Honda used Mugen, Mercedes Ilmor before buying them. Ford used Cosworth. The Ford badged engine in the '26 Red Bull will not be a Ford designed/built engine.

[Wills2]

thegreenhell said:

MustangGT said:

Bo_apex said:

V10's would also reduce the budgets.

Just one small problem with this, much though we would like it, is that there are no manufacturers willing to waste multi-millions on an engine that has no relevance to road cars.

Why does this matter? There are racing V10s available off the shelf already. No OEM would be required to spend hundreds of millions developing one. No F1 engine has ever had any relevance to road cars until they tried to use it as an excuse for the current monstrosities.

Exactly, we need lighter, smaller F1 cars with screaming engines, not these fat wide boy things droning around a track.

[TheDeuce]

thegreenhell said:

MustangGT said:

Bo_apex said:

V10's would also reduce the budgets.

Just one small problem with this, much though we would like it, is that there are no manufacturers willing to waste multi-millions on an engine that has no relevance to road cars.

Why does this matter? There are racing V10s available off the shelf already. No OEM would be required to spend hundreds of millions developing one. No F1 engine has ever had any relevance to road cars until they tried to use it as an excuse for the current monstrosities.

F1 cars have, for a very long time now, been presented as in some way relative to the manufacturers roads cars - I accept that most of the supposed connections are complete bks, but plainly the manufacturers have seen a positive connection between their F1 activities and road car sales, because they've spent decades spending billions on taking part.

It is indeed only in more recent times that the powertrain specifically became the principle thing manufacturers desired to (extremely loosely) become relevant to their road cars and current eco trends etc, but beyond the powertrain, manufacturers have definitely seen great value in F1 participation way before they started caring about PU efficiency.

However, things have changed now and the cost caps make each team secure and potentially profitable, so manufacturer billions are no longer required to be pumped in to take part, so in the future the manufacturers desires and influence could be vastly reduced... The only problem with is that still won't get us back to V10's, because the newer generations of fans simply don't have the passion for oily stuff, they would simply be confused as to why 'the most advanced racing cars in the world', are using dino juice when electrification is helping the worlds fastest supercars (and their dads Tesla) become ever more impressive. So now we enter an era where the sport itself has to appeal to current trends and sentiments, regardless of what the manufacturers alone want.

[TheDeuce]

paulguitar said:

TheDeuce said:

F1 became worth billions by courting the manufacturers desire to take part and spend huge amounts of money doing so, to create the cars and the show that it soon became.

I think commercially, that's the opposite of screwing up.

Commercially, maybe. In every other way, as Brundle says, the worst decision the sport has ever made was to implement the lawnmower engines.


There must be some way to make them more interesting again.

I imagine there is a way. But winding the clock back 3 decades is never going to be the way.

Just be grateful we lived through the days when fun and spectacle was allowed to reign unburdened and not everything had to be on message and sensible. We can't bring those times back but we can be grateful to have had them.

[Eric Mc]

So - that's it then - F1 will forever be neutred and hamstrung by non-F1 related matters.

It truly is finished if that's the case.

[Mark-C]

Eric Mc said:

So - that's it then - F1 will forever be neutred and hamstrung by non-F1 related matters.

It truly is finished if that's the case.

It's been like that for years now and it's only finished for those of us that remember (and hanker after) the good old days.

The sport\show will carry on without us.

Personally I thought the V10s were a level of homogenisation too far and always missed the days of V8 vs V12 vs F12 vs I4 Turbo.

My Dad hated wings and slicks and my Grandad hated them going rear-engined ...

[TheDeuce]

Eric Mc said:

So - that's it then - F1 will forever be neutred and hamstrung by non-F1 related matters.

It truly is finished if that's the case.

It's been like that for decades - it's just that now the level of stuff to think about and be on message about is making life in general difficult to navigate...

I am very sorry about that myself, I think modern society is missing out by not having things like F1 as a healthy break from being sanctimonious and virtuous... But that's just not the way society has progressed. No wonder mental health rates are at an all time low, everyone's worrying about everything they do and say!!!

The truth is though, that whilst as we age we find F1 increasingly a sad spectacle, it does seem to be appealing to new fans on a new level. I think we must accept that as humans we age and become sentimental, but as a commercial entity, F1 moves with the times and has little interest in the past.

[Bo_apex]

TheDeuce said:

Eric Mc said:

So - that's it then - F1 will forever be neutred and hamstrung by non-F1 related matters.

It truly is finished if that's the case.

It's been like that for decades - it's just that now the level of stuff to think about and be on message about is making life in general difficult to navigate...

I am very sorry about that myself, I think modern society is missing out by not having things like F1 as a healthy break from being sanctimonious and virtuous... But that's just not the way society has progressed. No wonder mental health rates are at an all time low, everyone's worrying about everything they do and say!!!

The truth is though, that whilst as we age we find F1 increasingly a sad spectacle, it does seem to be appealing to new fans on a new level. I think we must accept that as humans we age and become sentimental, but as a commercial entity, F1 moves with the times and has little interest in the past.

The gods of digital commerce want to put everyone in a box. It's about power, control and money..

But the human mind is greater than any tech (eg Gordon Murray and his pencil) as is the human desire for freedom of choice.

We can simply resist the temptation to capitulate and fall into their beige digital box. Other new things will emerge as nature always finds it's way

[deadslow]

is it possible that some of the folks who hark back to a better time in F1 are actually stuck in a habit, and watching a formula/sport they don't really enjoy these days, but find it difficult to give it up for sentimental reasons?

I suspect some people could move to a different formula/sport and it would be like giving up smoking or drinking - no going back and no downside.

As others have said, the sport is moving forward and is having great success. The V10s are never coming back.

[Blib]

Jasandjules said:

732NM said:

Jasandjules said:

Are we really not mentioning Alonso's save?!?!? That was all kinds of awesome and I bet Carlos will be watchin the onboards!!

Shouldn't have put a wheel off there in the first place.

True. But it was still one hell of a catch....

Alonso probably said:

It was the greatest save of my career. Infact, it's the greatest save ever in Formula 1. No one gets out of shape better than me!

[cuprabob]

Blib said:

Jasandjules said:

732NM said:

Jasandjules said:

Are we really not mentioning Alonso's save?!?!? That was all kinds of awesome and I bet Carlos will be watchin the onboards!!

Shouldn't have put a wheel off there in the first place.

True. But it was still one hell of a catch....

Alonso probably said:

It was the greatest save of my career. Infact, it's the greatest save ever in Formula 1. No one gets out of shape better than me!

What impressed me about it the most was how quickly he activated the DRS immediately after the save.

[TheDeuce]

Bo_apex said:

TheDeuce said:

Eric Mc said:

So - that's it then - F1 will forever be neutred and hamstrung by non-F1 related matters.

It truly is finished if that's the case.

It's been like that for decades - it's just that now the level of stuff to think about and be on message about is making life in general difficult to navigate...

I am very sorry about that myself, I think modern society is missing out by not having things like F1 as a healthy break from being sanctimonious and virtuous... But that's just not the way society has progressed. No wonder mental health rates are at an all time low, everyone's worrying about everything they do and say!!!

The truth is though, that whilst as we age we find F1 increasingly a sad spectacle, it does seem to be appealing to new fans on a new level. I think we must accept that as humans we age and become sentimental, but as a commercial entity, F1 moves with the times and has little interest in the past.

The gods of digital commerce want to put everyone in a box. It's about power, control and money..

But the human mind is greater than any tech (eg Gordon Murray and his pencil) as is the human desire for freedom of choice.

We can simply resist the temptation to capitulate and fall into their beige digital box. Other new things will emerge as nature always finds it's way

Yes, humans will always find a way to express and amuse themselves. But it will be all new ways, it won't involve winding the clock back in F1.

And specifically as individuals, you, I, others on this thread can go and find new things to interest us if F1 no longer fits the bill.

[Blib]

cuprabob said:

Blib said:

Jasandjules said:

732NM said:

Jasandjules said:

Are we really not mentioning Alonso's save?!?!? That was all kinds of awesome and I bet Carlos will be watchin the onboards!!

Shouldn't have put a wheel off there in the first place.

True. But it was still one hell of a catch....

Alonso probably said:

It was the greatest save of my career. Infact, it's the greatest save ever in Formula 1. No one gets out of shape better than me!

What impressed me about it the most was how quickly he activated the DRS immediately after the save.

To be fair, that was very impressive too!

[paulguitar]

TheDeuce said:

Yes, humans will always find a way to express and amuse themselves. But it will be all new ways, it won't involve winding the clock back in F1.

And specifically as individuals, you, I, others on this thread can go and find new things to interest us if F1 no longer fits the bill.

I think the double whammy of st cars and the same unchallenged winner at every event is the issue at present. When we had Schumacher dominance we also had glorious cars, so it was still worth going to the circuit.

[Presuming Ed]

The hybrid engines will soon become obsolete as manufacturers are forced into full EV. Are we happy for F1 to become the new Formula E?

If we don't break ties with manufacturers its what we have coming. Not that a battery could get these cars around a track for 70 laps.

[Eric Mc]

TheDeuce said:

It's been like that for decades - it's just that now the level of stuff to think about and be on message about is making life in general difficult to navigate...

I am very sorry about that myself, I think modern society is missing out by not having things like F1 as a healthy break from being sanctimonious and virtuous... But that's just not the way society has progressed. No wonder mental health rates are at an all time low, everyone's worrying about everything they do and say!!!

The truth is though, that whilst as we age we find F1 increasingly a sad spectacle, it does seem to be appealing to new fans on a new level. I think we must accept that as humans we age and become sentimental, but as a commercial entity, F1 moves with the times and has little interest in the past.

When you say "decades", how many decades do you mean?

I would suggest that the last time what was going on outside F1 didn't really matter to F1 was probably the late 1990s.

[TheDeuce]

paulguitar said:

TheDeuce said:

Yes, humans will always find a way to express and amuse themselves. But it will be all new ways, it won't involve winding the clock back in F1.

And specifically as individuals, you, I, others on this thread can go and find new things to interest us if F1 no longer fits the bill.

I think the double whammy of st cars and the same unchallenged winner at every event is the issue at present. When we had Schumacher dominance we also had glorious cars, so it was still worth going to the circuit.

Yep, it's a lot for us older viewers to deal with in a short space of time! I would add to that the cost caps which have effectively made all teams safe irrespective of actual performance, which has taken some of the underdog passion away. Also the seemingly increasing level of 'influence' over sporting events by means of weird penalty applications and nonsensical VSC/SC/Reds deployment that so often seem to conveniently have more to do with what would best spice up the race than they do with established safety provisions.

So much has changed in a relatively short space of time, and not a lot of it appeals to me, despite my understanding of why many of the changes have been made.

[TheDeuce]

Eric Mc said:

TheDeuce said:

It's been like that for decades - it's just that now the level of stuff to think about and be on message about is making life in general difficult to navigate...

I am very sorry about that myself, I think modern society is missing out by not having things like F1 as a healthy break from being sanctimonious and virtuous... But that's just not the way society has progressed. No wonder mental health rates are at an all time low, everyone's worrying about everything they do and say!!!

The truth is though, that whilst as we age we find F1 increasingly a sad spectacle, it does seem to be appealing to new fans on a new level. I think we must accept that as humans we age and become sentimental, but as a commercial entity, F1 moves with the times and has little interest in the past.

When you say "decades", how many decades do you mean?

I would suggest that the last time what was going on outside F1 didn't really matter to F1 was probably the late 1990s.

Yes, which is roughly 3 decades ago now.

Obviously there were external commercial factors way ahead for then - but in terms of trend following and being on message etc, it was probably late nineties when the world started to criticise and try and fix everything, even things like F1 that were supposed to be escapism from day to day sensible life.

[RDMcG]

I have watched F1 since I was a child and of course mourn the sound of the V12s and the clubbier and somewhat amateurish teams of the past.

It is a global business now and the money is in the broadcast and streaming. I have had amazing access to races in the past ( no longer)-even stood on tbd starting grid once just before the formation lap. However., actually seeing a race is better on a screen.

I have zero interest in the Netflix stuff and the whole Americanization of the sport with the owners desperate to get American drivers and so on . Do not care about WAGS and personal dramas.

However,this puts me in a minority as huge numbers of people are glued to these aspects. At times it feels like automotive Taylor Swifties to me. Yet ,I am part of the past of F1 and I accept that it is now for a different audience.
Roll on Miami with its fake boat basin .