Official 2024 Chinese Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

[Forester1965]

TheDeuce said:

So much has changed in a relatively short space of time, and not a lot of it appeals to me, despite my understanding of why many of the changes have been made.

Agree with this. The fundamental change has been the move from expensive sport to a cheap marketing device.

People like me have to decide if the 'new' F1 is in fact something we're interested in because, unless our disappearance would cause F1 financial problems, we're not going to influence its direction.

I don't see *this* F1 coming back around to the noisy, expensive series I loved watching. The current owners/teams are in a rush to replace us with people with no attachment to that past. I think in the large they've succeeded.

The only way I can envisage a new series emerging that could emulate the old F1 would be a new series with cars faster and more interesting than F1 that could pull the best drivers from F1. Not sure there's an audience size to fund that, though.

[TheDeuce]

Presuming Ed said:

The hybrid engines will soon become obsolete as manufacturers are forced into full EV. Are we happy for F1 to become the new Formula E?

If we don't break ties with manufacturers its what we have coming. Not that a battery could get these cars around a track for 70 laps.

As per my previous post, with or without manufacturers it's what the sport has coming.

I doubt very much you'll find anyone on platform so out of date as an internet forum that will be 'happy' about that. But it's very hard to see any other commercially viable route for F1 to eventually take.

Note that already they're promoting the fact that half the peak power of the new cars will be electrical.. It's pretty clear the sport is headed off down that path, albeit I expect ICE will still be vital for at least the next decade, due to the range as you point out.

[paulguitar]

TheDeuce said:

So much has changed in a relatively short space of time, and not a lot of it appeals to me, despite my understanding of why many of the changes have been made.

I think Brundle saying hybrid engines have been the 'worst decision ever made' in the sport is remarkable. He's partly there to 'big up' F1 and if he's openly coming out with stuff like that perhaps they are starting to twig that all is not well.

[TheDeuce]

RDMcG said:

I have watched F1 since I was a child and of course mourn the sound of the V12s and the clubbier and somewhat amateurish teams of the past.

It is a global business now and the money is in the broadcast and streaming. I have had amazing access to races in the past ( no longer)-even stood on tbd starting grid once just before the formation lap. However., actually seeing a race is better on a screen.

I have zero interest in the Netflix stuff and the whole Americanization of the sport with the owners desperate to get American drivers and so on . Do not care about WAGS and personal dramas.

However,this puts me in a minority as huge numbers of people are glued to these aspects. At times it feels like automotive Taylor Swifties to me. Yet ,I am part of the past of F1 and I accept that it is now for a different audience.
Roll on Miami with its fake boat basin .

I agree and feel the same.

It it amusing that you spelled 'Americanisation' with a z though - they've obviously won you over!

[TheDeuce]

paulguitar said:

TheDeuce said:

So much has changed in a relatively short space of time, and not a lot of it appeals to me, despite my understanding of why many of the changes have been made.

I think Brundle saying hybrid engines have been the 'worst decision ever made' in the sport is remarkable. He's partly there to 'big up' F1 and if he's openly coming out with stuff like that perhaps they are starting to twig that all is not well.

He's also no spring chicken and has made it very clear that the day he can't say what he thinks is the day he'll throw in the towel. He's still a very valuable asset to the sport right now, even if he's a rogue element that they can't force to only say the right things...

I doubt very much his views will do anything to change the course they take in order to best protect and grow their multi billion dollar asset.

[Bo_apex]

TheDeuce said:

Bo_apex said:

TheDeuce said:

Eric Mc said:

So - that's it then - F1 will forever be neutred and hamstrung by non-F1 related matters.

It truly is finished if that's the case.

It's been like that for decades - it's just that now the level of stuff to think about and be on message about is making life in general difficult to navigate...

I am very sorry about that myself, I think modern society is missing out by not having things like F1 as a healthy break from being sanctimonious and virtuous... But that's just not the way society has progressed. No wonder mental health rates are at an all time low, everyone's worrying about everything they do and say!!!

The truth is though, that whilst as we age we find F1 increasingly a sad spectacle, it does seem to be appealing to new fans on a new level. I think we must accept that as humans we age and become sentimental, but as a commercial entity, F1 moves with the times and has little interest in the past.

The gods of digital commerce want to put everyone in a box. It's about power, control and money..

But the human mind is greater than any tech (eg Gordon Murray and his pencil) as is the human desire for freedom of choice.

We can simply resist the temptation to capitulate and fall into their beige digital box. Other new things will emerge as nature always finds it's way

Yes, humans will always find a way to express and amuse themselves. But it will be all new ways, it won't involve winding the clock back in F1.

And specifically as individuals, you, I, others on this thread can go and find new things to interest us if F1 no longer fits the bill.

Agree, to a point.

Sometimes the key to future progress can lay hidden within previous endeavours.
Is the new Rwanda format a spiced up version of early Australia ?

Off Topic I know !

[paulguitar]

TheDeuce said:

paulguitar said:

TheDeuce said:

So much has changed in a relatively short space of time, and not a lot of it appeals to me, despite my understanding of why many of the changes have been made.

I think Brundle saying hybrid engines have been the 'worst decision ever made' in the sport is remarkable. He's partly there to 'big up' F1 and if he's openly coming out with stuff like that perhaps they are starting to twig that all is not well.

He's also no spring chicken and has made it very clear that the day he can't say what he thinks is the day he'll throw in the towel. He's still a very valuable asset to the sport right now, even if he's a rogue element that they can't force to only say the right things...

I doubt very much his views will do anything to change the course they take in order to best protect and grow their multi billion dollar asset.

Yeah, you're probably right.

I think those of us who lament the loss of the glorious viscerally mindblowing cars we used to have will have to accept that we don't matter to the sport's owners who now have a fan base of people weaned on 'Drive to Survive' and know nothing other than the current underwhelming ponderous farty sounding vehicles.

I'm curious as to whether anyone might try some sort of offshoot though. There are probably enough people who are interested in seeing a championship with naturally aspirated V10s or V12s. Look how popular the Goodwood FOS is. It's lovely going there and seeing kids (and adults) literally open-mouthed when a 'proper' F1 car is let loose up the hill.

[Bo_apex]

paulguitar said:

I think Brundle saying hybrid engines have been the 'worst decision ever made' in the sport is remarkable. He's partly there to 'big up' F1 and if he's openly coming out with stuff like that perhaps they are starting to twig that all is not well.

Props to Brundle.

If F1 wants to truly reduce obese budgets, V10 is the answer.

[Sandpit Steve]

paulguitar said:

Yeah, you're probably right.

I think those of us who lament the loss of the glorious viscerally mindblowing cars we used to have will have to accept that we don't matter to the sport's owners who now have a fan base of people weaned on 'Drive to Survive' and know nothing other than the current underwhelming ponderous farty sounding vehicles.

I'm curious as to whether anyone might try some sort of offshoot though. There are probably enough people who are interested in seeing a championship with naturally aspirated V10s or V12s. Look how popular the Goodwood FOS is. It's lovely going there and seeing kids (and adults) literally open-mouthed when a 'proper' F1 car is let loose up the hill.

I wonder how close you could now get to F1 speeds, taking an off-the-shelf F2 chassis with an off-the-shelf Cosworth or Judd V10 engine, a more aggressive aero package and wider tyres?

Yes I know it sounds a bit A1GP, but the noise in F1 is somewhat different these days. Could there be a market for a spec series with the screaming, utterly visceral, noise that us old fogeys here remember?

[paulguitar]

Sandpit Steve said:

I wonder how close you could now get to F1 speeds, taking an off-the-shelf F2 chassis with an off-the-shelf Cosworth or Judd V10 engine, a more aggressive aero package and wider tyres?

Yes I know it sounds a bit A1GP, but the noise in F1 is somewhat different these days. Could there be a market for a spec series with the screaming, utterly visceral, noise that us old fogeys here remember?

I think there could be a market, but who will the drivers be?

[TheDeuce]

paulguitar said:

TheDeuce said:

paulguitar said:

TheDeuce said:

So much has changed in a relatively short space of time, and not a lot of it appeals to me, despite my understanding of why many of the changes have been made.

I think Brundle saying hybrid engines have been the 'worst decision ever made' in the sport is remarkable. He's partly there to 'big up' F1 and if he's openly coming out with stuff like that perhaps they are starting to twig that all is not well.

He's also no spring chicken and has made it very clear that the day he can't say what he thinks is the day he'll throw in the towel. He's still a very valuable asset to the sport right now, even if he's a rogue element that they can't force to only say the right things...

I doubt very much his views will do anything to change the course they take in order to best protect and grow their multi billion dollar asset.

Yeah, you're probably right.

I think those of us who lament the loss of the glorious viscerally mindblowing cars we used to have will have to accept that we don't matter to the sport's owners who now have a fan base of people weaned on 'Drive to Survive' and know nothing other than the current underwhelming ponderous farty sounding vehicles.

I'm curious as to whether anyone might try some sort of offshoot though. There are probably enough people who are interested in seeing a championship with naturally aspirated V10s or V12s. Look how popular the Goodwood FOS is. It's lovely going there and seeing kids (and adults) literally open-mouthed when a 'proper' F1 car is let loose up the hill.

I think there's definitely a popular demand for series that mirrors much of what F1 used to offer (garigista teams building their own cars to a framework of rules), but keeps the focus purely on motorsport and brings back the best of ICE and so on, and that demand will likely grow as F1 continues down it's own path.

The problem is, to establish such a series would need huge investment to keep the show on the road for a few years whilst, hopefully, enough sponsors come on board to fund the series and teams moving forwards. Where on earth do you find big money sponsors these days that want to attach a throwback to screaming petrol engines to their brands though

The will and interest is definitely there, people would watch too I believe. But the money... I can't see how that can be found.

[georgefreeman918]

paulguitar said:

Sandpit Steve said:

I wonder how close you could now get to F1 speeds, taking an off-the-shelf F2 chassis with an off-the-shelf Cosworth or Judd V10 engine, a more aggressive aero package and wider tyres?

Yes I know it sounds a bit A1GP, but the noise in F1 is somewhat different these days. Could there be a market for a spec series with the screaming, utterly visceral, noise that us old fogeys here remember?

I think there could be a market, but who will the drivers be?

Those that are deemed to not be good enough for F1 anymore (but can still pedal) - think Rosberg post 2016, Button, Vettel, Raikkonen etc. All past their heyday of F1 but still very capable drivers.

[CT05 Nose Cone]

Biggest issue is large companies and organisations have to pretend to care about the environment, and when it comes to this the only thing that matters is what comes out of the car's exhaust. So a lire ice engine wouldn't be acceptable.

[paulguitar]

georgefreeman918 said:

paulguitar said:

Sandpit Steve said:

I wonder how close you could now get to F1 speeds, taking an off-the-shelf F2 chassis with an off-the-shelf Cosworth or Judd V10 engine, a more aggressive aero package and wider tyres?

Yes I know it sounds a bit A1GP, but the noise in F1 is somewhat different these days. Could there be a market for a spec series with the screaming, utterly visceral, noise that us old fogeys here remember?

I think there could be a market, but who will the drivers be?

Those that are deemed to not be good enough for F1 anymore (but can still pedal) - think Rosberg post 2016, Button, Vettel, Raikkonen etc. All past their heyday of F1 but still very capable drivers.

Good shout.

I would pay to go and watch that.

[Bo_apex]

TheDeuce said:

paulguitar said:

TheDeuce said:

paulguitar said:

TheDeuce said:

So much has changed in a relatively short space of time, and not a lot of it appeals to me, despite my understanding of why many of the changes have been made.

I think Brundle saying hybrid engines have been the 'worst decision ever made' in the sport is remarkable. He's partly there to 'big up' F1 and if he's openly coming out with stuff like that perhaps they are starting to twig that all is not well.

He's also no spring chicken and has made it very clear that the day he can't say what he thinks is the day he'll throw in the towel. He's still a very valuable asset to the sport right now, even if he's a rogue element that they can't force to only say the right things...

I doubt very much his views will do anything to change the course they take in order to best protect and grow their multi billion dollar asset.

Yeah, you're probably right.

I think those of us who lament the loss of the glorious viscerally mindblowing cars we used to have will have to accept that we don't matter to the sport's owners who now have a fan base of people weaned on 'Drive to Survive' and know nothing other than the current underwhelming ponderous farty sounding vehicles.

I'm curious as to whether anyone might try some sort of offshoot though. There are probably enough people who are interested in seeing a championship with naturally aspirated V10s or V12s. Look how popular the Goodwood FOS is. It's lovely going there and seeing kids (and adults) literally open-mouthed when a 'proper' F1 car is let loose up the hill.

I think there's definitely a popular demand for series that mirrors much of what F1 used to offer (garigista teams building their own cars to a framework of rules), but keeps the focus purely on motorsport and brings back the best of ICE and so on, and that demand will likely grow as F1 continues down it's own path.

The problem is, to establish such a series would need huge investment to keep the show on the road for a few years whilst, hopefully, enough sponsors come on board to fund the series and teams moving forwards. Where on earth do you find big money sponsors these days that want to attach a throwback to screaming petrol engines to their brands though

The will and interest is definitely there, people would watch too I believe. But the money... I can't see how that can be found.

the analogue Vinyl market continues to grow....

https://www.musicweek.com/labels/read/vinyl-sales-...

[Bo_apex]

CT05 Nose Cone said:

Biggest issue is large companies and organisations have to pretend to care about the environment, and when it comes to this the only thing that matters is what comes out of the car's exhaust. So a lire ice engine wouldn't be acceptable.

just NoX test them at the tailpipe

[Forester1965]

Interestingly, the F1 viewing audience has shrunk since 2018 (Liberties first ownership season).

[Bas Jaski]

Byker28i said:

Did George shine this weekend? Hamilton almost caught him up after cocking up qualifying.

Lewis finished 21 seconds behind George despite a very long safety car.

Take the SC out the equation and Lewis wouldn't even have looked at points.

[Sandpit Steve]

paulguitar said:

georgefreeman918 said:

paulguitar said:

Sandpit Steve said:

I wonder how close you could now get to F1 speeds, taking an off-the-shelf F2 chassis with an off-the-shelf Cosworth or Judd V10 engine, a more aggressive aero package and wider tyres?

Yes I know it sounds a bit A1GP, but the noise in F1 is somewhat different these days. Could there be a market for a spec series with the screaming, utterly visceral, noise that us old fogeys here remember?

I think there could be a market, but who will the drivers be?

Those that are deemed to not be good enough for F1 anymore (but can still pedal) - think Rosberg post 2016, Button, Vettel, Raikkonen etc. All past their heyday of F1 but still very capable drivers.

Good shout.

I would pay to go and watch that.

If you had enough sponsorship for six figure driver salaries, and could avoid clashes with WEC and Formula E, you’d probably find a couple of dozen super licence holders. Keep a couple of ‘celebrity cars’ available for one-off appearances as well.

[TheDeuce]

Bo_apex said:

TheDeuce said:

paulguitar said:

TheDeuce said:

paulguitar said:

TheDeuce said:

So much has changed in a relatively short space of time, and not a lot of it appeals to me, despite my understanding of why many of the changes have been made.

I think Brundle saying hybrid engines have been the 'worst decision ever made' in the sport is remarkable. He's partly there to 'big up' F1 and if he's openly coming out with stuff like that perhaps they are starting to twig that all is not well.

He's also no spring chicken and has made it very clear that the day he can't say what he thinks is the day he'll throw in the towel. He's still a very valuable asset to the sport right now, even if he's a rogue element that they can't force to only say the right things...

I doubt very much his views will do anything to change the course they take in order to best protect and grow their multi billion dollar asset.

Yeah, you're probably right.

I think those of us who lament the loss of the glorious viscerally mindblowing cars we used to have will have to accept that we don't matter to the sport's owners who now have a fan base of people weaned on 'Drive to Survive' and know nothing other than the current underwhelming ponderous farty sounding vehicles.

I'm curious as to whether anyone might try some sort of offshoot though. There are probably enough people who are interested in seeing a championship with naturally aspirated V10s or V12s. Look how popular the Goodwood FOS is. It's lovely going there and seeing kids (and adults) literally open-mouthed when a 'proper' F1 car is let loose up the hill.

I think there's definitely a popular demand for series that mirrors much of what F1 used to offer (garigista teams building their own cars to a framework of rules), but keeps the focus purely on motorsport and brings back the best of ICE and so on, and that demand will likely grow as F1 continues down it's own path.

The problem is, to establish such a series would need huge investment to keep the show on the road for a few years whilst, hopefully, enough sponsors come on board to fund the series and teams moving forwards. Where on earth do you find big money sponsors these days that want to attach a throwback to screaming petrol engines to their brands though

The will and interest is definitely there, people would watch too I believe. But the money... I can't see how that can be found.

the analogue Vinyl market continues to grow....

https://www.musicweek.com/labels/read/vinyl-sales-...

That's quite different, that's paid for directly by the end user at an affordable price per item. Viewers of a fledgling new motorsport series won't pay.

As an aside, apparently the renewal of interest in vinyl collections has triggered an increase in buying turntables (of course..), but most of the ones being sold are Bluetooth in order to work with modern home speakers/soundbars etc, so the 'pure' analogue sound is digitised ala CD or Spotify ahead of actually being heard

My brother in law has one and swears he can hear the difference analogue makes...