Official 2024 Chinese Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

[TheDeuce]

Sandpit Steve said:

paulguitar said:

georgefreeman918 said:

paulguitar said:

Sandpit Steve said:

I wonder how close you could now get to F1 speeds, taking an off-the-shelf F2 chassis with an off-the-shelf Cosworth or Judd V10 engine, a more aggressive aero package and wider tyres?

Yes I know it sounds a bit A1GP, but the noise in F1 is somewhat different these days. Could there be a market for a spec series with the screaming, utterly visceral, noise that us old fogeys here remember?

I think there could be a market, but who will the drivers be?

Those that are deemed to not be good enough for F1 anymore (but can still pedal) - think Rosberg post 2016, Button, Vettel, Raikkonen etc. All past their heyday of F1 but still very capable drivers.

Good shout.

I would pay to go and watch that.

If you had enough sponsorship for six figure driver salaries, and could avoid clashes with WEC and Formula E, you’d probably find a couple of dozen super licence holders. Keep a couple of ‘celebrity cars’ available for one-off appearances as well.

For the record, I'd very much go and watch that too.

I can't see it being commercially viable, but if someone can figure out a way - I'll be there in the stands and would probably pay a small amount to watch remotely too.

[Sandpit Steve]

TheDeuce said:

For the record, I'd very much go and watch that too.

I can't see it being commercially viable, but if someone can figure out a way - I'll be there in the stands and would probably pay a small amount to watch remotely too.

The only way I could see the commercials working for it, would be as part of a much bigger motorsport festival event. So you’d hire eg. Silverstone, and have these guys headline a weekend that includes BTCC, Euro F3, British F3, F4, Clio Cup etc, and hope to get 50k-100k people through the door at £100-£150 for the three days.

Half a dozen of those events in Europe, plus Japan and the US, could probably work if carefully timed during the season.

[TheDeuce]

Sandpit Steve said:

TheDeuce said:

For the record, I'd very much go and watch that too.

I can't see it being commercially viable, but if someone can figure out a way - I'll be there in the stands and would probably pay a small amount to watch remotely too.

The only way I could see the commercials working for it, would be as part of a much bigger motorsport festival event. So you’d hire eg. Silverstone, and have these guys headline a weekend that includes BTCC, Euro F3, British F3, F4, Clio Cup etc, and hope to get 50k-100k people through the door at £100-£150 for the three days.

Half a dozen of those events in Europe, plus Japan and the US, could probably work if carefully timed during the season.

Half a dozen events wouldn't pay much for an ex F1 driver, but wouldn't their participation in such a series in most cases prevent there participation in an established, full season series such as indycar or le mans? Either due to scheduling problems or most likely the fact that if they're paid and sponsored to drive for any major motorsport series, they're typically excluded from being able to drive in another.

[PhilAsia]

Bo_apex said:

TheDeuce said:

paulguitar said:

TheDeuce said:

paulguitar said:

TheDeuce said:

So much has changed in a relatively short space of time, and not a lot of it appeals to me, despite my understanding of why many of the changes have been made.

I think Brundle saying hybrid engines have been the 'worst decision ever made' in the sport is remarkable. He's partly there to 'big up' F1 and if he's openly coming out with stuff like that perhaps they are starting to twig that all is not well.

He's also no spring chicken and has made it very clear that the day he can't say what he thinks is the day he'll throw in the towel. He's still a very valuable asset to the sport right now, even if he's a rogue element that they can't force to only say the right things...

I doubt very much his views will do anything to change the course they take in order to best protect and grow their multi billion dollar asset.

Yeah, you're probably right.

I think those of us who lament the loss of the glorious viscerally mindblowing cars we used to have will have to accept that we don't matter to the sport's owners who now have a fan base of people weaned on 'Drive to Survive' and know nothing other than the current underwhelming ponderous farty sounding vehicles.

I'm curious as to whether anyone might try some sort of offshoot though. There are probably enough people who are interested in seeing a championship with naturally aspirated V10s or V12s. Look how popular the Goodwood FOS is. It's lovely going there and seeing kids (and adults) literally open-mouthed when a 'proper' F1 car is let loose up the hill.

I think there's definitely a popular demand for series that mirrors much of what F1 used to offer (garigista teams building their own cars to a framework of rules), but keeps the focus purely on motorsport and brings back the best of ICE and so on, and that demand will likely grow as F1 continues down it's own path.

The problem is, to establish such a series would need huge investment to keep the show on the road for a few years whilst, hopefully, enough sponsors come on board to fund the series and teams moving forwards. Where on earth do you find big money sponsors these days that want to attach a throwback to screaming petrol engines to their brands though

The will and interest is definitely there, people would watch too I believe. But the money... I can't see how that can be found.

the analogue Vinyl market continues to grow....

https://www.musicweek.com/labels/read/vinyl-sales-...

Indeed! Produced by my friends Chris/Duke Peckings (label). And lyrics, for days, from the venerable wordsmith and another friend, Macka B!

The lyrics (subtitled on the vid) are quite poignantly interchangeable to the subject at hand.

[TheDeuce]

PhilAsia said:

Bo_apex said:

TheDeuce said:

paulguitar said:

TheDeuce said:

paulguitar said:

TheDeuce said:

So much has changed in a relatively short space of time, and not a lot of it appeals to me, despite my understanding of why many of the changes have been made.

I think Brundle saying hybrid engines have been the 'worst decision ever made' in the sport is remarkable. He's partly there to 'big up' F1 and if he's openly coming out with stuff like that perhaps they are starting to twig that all is not well.

He's also no spring chicken and has made it very clear that the day he can't say what he thinks is the day he'll throw in the towel. He's still a very valuable asset to the sport right now, even if he's a rogue element that they can't force to only say the right things...

I doubt very much his views will do anything to change the course they take in order to best protect and grow their multi billion dollar asset.

Yeah, you're probably right.

I think those of us who lament the loss of the glorious viscerally mindblowing cars we used to have will have to accept that we don't matter to the sport's owners who now have a fan base of people weaned on 'Drive to Survive' and know nothing other than the current underwhelming ponderous farty sounding vehicles.

I'm curious as to whether anyone might try some sort of offshoot though. There are probably enough people who are interested in seeing a championship with naturally aspirated V10s or V12s. Look how popular the Goodwood FOS is. It's lovely going there and seeing kids (and adults) literally open-mouthed when a 'proper' F1 car is let loose up the hill.

I think there's definitely a popular demand for series that mirrors much of what F1 used to offer (garigista teams building their own cars to a framework of rules), but keeps the focus purely on motorsport and brings back the best of ICE and so on, and that demand will likely grow as F1 continues down it's own path.

The problem is, to establish such a series would need huge investment to keep the show on the road for a few years whilst, hopefully, enough sponsors come on board to fund the series and teams moving forwards. Where on earth do you find big money sponsors these days that want to attach a throwback to screaming petrol engines to their brands though

The will and interest is definitely there, people would watch too I believe. But the money... I can't see how that can be found.

the analogue Vinyl market continues to grow....

https://www.musicweek.com/labels/read/vinyl-sales-...

Indeed! Produced by my friends Chris/Duke Peckings (label). And lyrics, for days, from the venerable wordsmith and another friend, Macka B!

The lyrics (subtitled on the vid) are quite poignantly interchangeable to the subject at hand.

Awesome! I saw that years ago and loved it!

[Derek Smith]

Classic racing's great. You can often wander around the pits, with the cars being tested, revved, and driven past you. You can chat to the mechanics, the drivers and other nerds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdRv3t5iHWo

Or even away from the pits:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVwcUgRsCnk

[Muzzer79]

TheDeuce said:

Sandpit Steve said:

paulguitar said:

georgefreeman918 said:

paulguitar said:

Sandpit Steve said:

I wonder how close you could now get to F1 speeds, taking an off-the-shelf F2 chassis with an off-the-shelf Cosworth or Judd V10 engine, a more aggressive aero package and wider tyres?

Yes I know it sounds a bit A1GP, but the noise in F1 is somewhat different these days. Could there be a market for a spec series with the screaming, utterly visceral, noise that us old fogeys here remember?

I think there could be a market, but who will the drivers be?

Those that are deemed to not be good enough for F1 anymore (but can still pedal) - think Rosberg post 2016, Button, Vettel, Raikkonen etc. All past their heyday of F1 but still very capable drivers.

Good shout.

I would pay to go and watch that.

If you had enough sponsorship for six figure driver salaries, and could avoid clashes with WEC and Formula E, you’d probably find a couple of dozen super licence holders. Keep a couple of ‘celebrity cars’ available for one-off appearances as well.

For the record, I'd very much go and watch that too.

I can't see it being commercially viable, but if someone can figure out a way - I'll be there in the stands and would probably pay a small amount to watch remotely too.

Isn't the concept being discussed basically GP Masters?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Prix_Masters#2...

I went to watch the race they did at Silverstone, having watched the first one at Kyalami on TV

The concept was great but it was underfunded and they only got two races out of it.

It's a shame it folded as I think it had potential.

[Forester1965]

Anyone interested in how Liberty view F1 and what they want to do with it should Google for the investor day presentations (they're on the Liberty website).

In summary it's all about engagement online. TV audiences dropping but, hoorah, the average age has dropped to 37 from 40. Something like 1/3 of fans have come to the sport in the last 4 years. All the st we knew has been happening but too afraid to ask.

[richhead]

paulguitar said:

Yeah, you're probably right.

I think those of us who lament the loss of the glorious viscerally mindblowing cars we used to have will have to accept that we don't matter to the sport's owners who now have a fan base of people weaned on 'Drive to Survive' and know nothing other than the current underwhelming ponderous farty sounding vehicles.

I'm curious as to whether anyone might try some sort of offshoot though. There are probably enough people who are interested in seeing a championship with naturally aspirated V10s or V12s. Look how popular the Goodwood FOS is. It's lovely going there and seeing kids (and adults) literally open-mouthed when a 'proper' F1 car is let loose up the hill.

there is plenty of historic racing, old can ams, f1 etc, problem is nobody goes to see them apart from the fos.
want to see those cars, and they are out there racing still, then suport them

[paulguitar]

richhead said:

there is plenty of historic racing, old can ams, f1 etc, problem is nobody goes to see them apart from the fos.
want to see those cars, and they are out there racing still, then suport them

I've been to the Silverstone classic a couple of times and also saw the 'BOSS' formula at Donington a few years ago. There are some thin grids and the ability of the drivers is very variable!

[richhead]

paulguitar said:

I've been to the Silverstone classic a couple of times and also saw the 'BOSS' formula at Donington a few years ago. There are some thin grids and the ability of the drivers is very variable!

very true, they are often owner drivers, but they are keeping the cars going, but the lack of crowds does show that it isnt just the cars that are the problem.

[TheDeuce]

Forester1965 said:

Anyone interested in how Liberty view F1 and what they want to do with it should Google for the investor day presentations (they're on the Liberty website).

In summary it's all about engagement online. TV audiences dropping but, hoorah, the average age has dropped to 37 from 40. Something like 1/3 of fans have come to the sport in the last 4 years. All the st we knew has been happening but too afraid to ask.

Not surprising, I would expect most rights owners looking to the future to be concentrating on those things. It's been fairly obvious since DTS was a big hit that F1 drama had a lot of appeal to younger and new viewers.

Do they include their own F1TV service in terms of dropping TV audiences? So far as I can tell looking at reddit activity (and on here to an extent), a lot of people are very happily viewing for a low price via that platform..

[Derek Smith]

richhead said:

paulguitar said:

I've been to the Silverstone classic a couple of times and also saw the 'BOSS' formula at Donington a few years ago. There are some thin grids and the ability of the drivers is very variable!

very true, they are often owner drivers, but they are keeping the cars going, but the lack of crowds does show that it isnt just the cars that are the problem.

I've not been to the Classic at Siverstone since Covid, but there were crowds there on the Sunday previously, to the extent that I chose the Saturday after that in order to get close to the cars.

[richhead]

Derek Smith said:

I've not been to the Classic at Siverstone since Covid, but there were crowds there on the Sunday previously, to the extent that I chose the Saturday after that in order to get close to the cars.

there are many other events, all though they are often on the continent, but its not just the headline events.

[Derek Smith]

richhead said:

Derek Smith said:

I've not been to the Classic at Siverstone since Covid, but there were crowds there on the Sunday previously, to the extent that I chose the Saturday after that in order to get close to the cars.

there are many other events, all though they are often on the continent, but its not just the headline events.

I have been to Hampton Court Concours all but one year. There are a great selection of cars in the 100 they have there, plus lots of clubs exhibit as well. A couple of years ago they had a selection of Le Mans cars through the ages. Most are run at some time or another. Ear-splitting musical drama.



But I get there early on Saturday, and there're few people there for half an hour or so. Bliss. Stunning vehicles. The exhibitors are only too willing to talk about there cars. I once sat on a bench to watch six V12 Packards drive through the judging tent. There was a woman on the bench and we started chatting while I set up my cameras. She seemed intent on the cars.

"Do you like Packards?" I asked.

"I love them. My husband's driving the first one," she said.

"Do you own it," I asked, with a degree of awe.

"Oh, we own all six," she said.

Best reply I've ever had. I burst out laughing and so did she.

I've chatted to Stephane Darracq, the General Manager of Club de l'Ouest, which runs Le Mans. He owns the first Darracq, a car his grandfather(?) helped build when he started the makers.

There was the chap who exhibited the Gurney Nutting Bentley who was an out and out enthusiast for vintage cars and Bentleys in particular. Good days.



(Not the Gurney Nutting Bentley.)

This is.



Edited to add a better image of the GN Bentley.

Edited by Derek Smith on Tuesday 23 April 21:16

[richhead]

Derek Smith said:

richhead said:

Derek Smith said:

I've not been to the Classic at Siverstone since Covid, but there were crowds there on the Sunday previously, to the extent that I chose the Saturday after that in order to get close to the cars.

there are many other events, all though they are often on the continent, but its not just the headline events.

I have been to Hampton Court Concours all but one year. There are a great selection of cars in the 100 they have there, plus lots of clubs exhibit as well. A couple of years ago they had a selection of Le Mans cars through the ages. Most are run at some time or another. Ear-splitting musical drama.



But I get there early on Saturday, and there're few people there for half an hour or so. Bliss. Stunning vehicles. The exhibitors are only too willing to talk about there cars. I once sat on a bench to watch six V12 Packards drive through the judging tent. There was a woman on the bench and we started chatting while I set up my cameras. She seemed intent on the cars.

"Do you like Packards?" I asked.

"I love them. My husband's driving the first one," she said.

"Do you own it," I asked, with a degree of awe.

"Oh, we own all six," she said.

Best reply I've ever had. I burst out laughing and so did she.

I've chatted to Stephane Darracq, the General Manager of Club de l'Ouest, which runs Le Mans. He owns the first Darracq, a car his grandfather(?) helped build when he started the makers.

There was the chap who exhibited the Gurney Nutting Bentley who was an out and out enthusiast for vintage cars and Bentleys in particular. Good days.



(Not the Gurney Nutting Bentley.)

This is.

good on you for showing an interest, some of these people spend literally millions keeping these things going and racing, they need support, these cars dont belong in museums, they need to be on track.

[Derek Smith]

Because my earlier post might seem a little off-topic, I thought I should post some F1 cars. To get near to, to breath on and to hear them running, then Silverstone Classic is the classic solution.








This Fittipaldi car was quite ugly close up. An F5 I think, subject to official confirmation.

[732NM]

F5A Derek.

[Sandpit Steve]

Massive kudos to all the guys and gals who keep these old F1 cars running, must be ruinously expensive every time they fire up or do a lap. Most of those old engines could barely survive a couple of heat cycles before needing a rebuild, and half of them couldn’t even go the GP distance back in period.

Chapeau

(I suspect today’s F1 cars will be impossible for anyone except the factory to keep running in future, with the complex hybrid powertrains).

[Derek Smith]

732NM said:

F5A Derek.

Thanks for that.

Still ugly though.

Fittipaldi drove one of the most stunning Lotus F1 cars, and came up with that.