Nigel Mansell one of the Greats ?
Discussion
dr_gn said:
Derek Smith said:
dr_gn said:
1988 British Grand Prix? Why would Ferrari fans be pissed off - they qualified first and second?
And what was so great about Mansell’s performance? I was there, and remember nothing of the crowd going wild - he only qualified 11th after all. As for beating turbo car monsters and the ‘greats’ driving them: Cheever in an Arrows, Larini’s decrepit Osella and the hopeless Zakspeeds? He wasn’t even the fastest atmo car - Guglemin and Capelli in their March-Judds locked out the third row.
The race however was where Mansell came alive: He beat the lot of them apart from Senna, and in car that had been converted from reactive to passive suspension on the Friday evening. It was, frankly, amazing.
As you say, F1 is about memories, but let’s not make them up.
This was the most committed qually lap I've seen. He was second, obviously at that time. He came around Club just a little beyond any other driver's sensible limit. There was cheering at Stowe, and it continued along the stands, and then onto where we were. The commentary was giving sector times. We knew it was a great lap, and we were right.And what was so great about Mansell’s performance? I was there, and remember nothing of the crowd going wild - he only qualified 11th after all. As for beating turbo car monsters and the ‘greats’ driving them: Cheever in an Arrows, Larini’s decrepit Osella and the hopeless Zakspeeds? He wasn’t even the fastest atmo car - Guglemin and Capelli in their March-Judds locked out the third row.
The race however was where Mansell came alive: He beat the lot of them apart from Senna, and in car that had been converted from reactive to passive suspension on the Friday evening. It was, frankly, amazing.
As you say, F1 is about memories, but let’s not make them up.
That's how I remember it. The crew I was with talked about it for a few years after. If you remember it differently, then so be it. It was a long time ago, but this is the F1 thread. Accusing people of making up things is a bit NP&E.
And you’re also saying that based on that irrelevant lap, people were goading Ferrari fans to the extent they had to leave, despite Ferrari subsequently qualifying 1st & 2nd?
There’s no wonder you’re still an F1 fan if stuff like that can get you all worked up.
Someone's memory of an event 32 years ago doesn't deserve dissecting for factual accuracy.
For reference, he said the Ferrari fans walked off (presumably to another viewing spot) not that they left.
Events are reflected in memory but it's sometimes distorted. I remember standing at Chapel curve when Hill and Schumacher collided in '95. I would say the German chap standing next to me seemed pretty peeved and stormed off, but I'm sure he just went to a different corner or something to continue watching!
Muzzer79 said:
dr_gn said:
Derek Smith said:
dr_gn said:
1988 British Grand Prix? Why would Ferrari fans be pissed off - they qualified first and second?
And what was so great about Mansell’s performance? I was there, and remember nothing of the crowd going wild - he only qualified 11th after all. As for beating turbo car monsters and the ‘greats’ driving them: Cheever in an Arrows, Larini’s decrepit Osella and the hopeless Zakspeeds? He wasn’t even the fastest atmo car - Guglemin and Capelli in their March-Judds locked out the third row.
The race however was where Mansell came alive: He beat the lot of them apart from Senna, and in car that had been converted from reactive to passive suspension on the Friday evening. It was, frankly, amazing.
As you say, F1 is about memories, but let’s not make them up.
This was the most committed qually lap I've seen. He was second, obviously at that time. He came around Club just a little beyond any other driver's sensible limit. There was cheering at Stowe, and it continued along the stands, and then onto where we were. The commentary was giving sector times. We knew it was a great lap, and we were right.And what was so great about Mansell’s performance? I was there, and remember nothing of the crowd going wild - he only qualified 11th after all. As for beating turbo car monsters and the ‘greats’ driving them: Cheever in an Arrows, Larini’s decrepit Osella and the hopeless Zakspeeds? He wasn’t even the fastest atmo car - Guglemin and Capelli in their March-Judds locked out the third row.
The race however was where Mansell came alive: He beat the lot of them apart from Senna, and in car that had been converted from reactive to passive suspension on the Friday evening. It was, frankly, amazing.
As you say, F1 is about memories, but let’s not make them up.
That's how I remember it. The crew I was with talked about it for a few years after. If you remember it differently, then so be it. It was a long time ago, but this is the F1 thread. Accusing people of making up things is a bit NP&E.
And you’re also saying that based on that irrelevant lap, people were goading Ferrari fans to the extent they had to leave, despite Ferrari subsequently qualifying 1st & 2nd?
There’s no wonder you’re still an F1 fan if stuff like that can get you all worked up.
Someone's memory of an event 32 years ago doesn't deserve dissecting for factual accuracy.
For reference, he said the Ferrari fans walked off (presumably to another viewing spot) not that they left.
Events are reflected in memory but it's sometimes distorted. I remember standing at Chapel curve when Hill and Schumacher collided in '95. I would say the German chap standing next to me seemed pretty peeved and stormed off, but I'm sure he just went to a different corner or something to continue watching!
Would you expect said driver to be ahead or behind of these cars on the grid?
OK - I guess it's not necessarily "made up", but in terms of implication it's off the mark in my opinion - it paints a false picture of what the driver actually achieved on the day.
People remember all sorts of things from their time watching F1, I recall the first car I ever saw, it was a Footwork coming down Hangar Straight, it was standing at the exit or Woodcote listening to them change gear and how Prost's changes sounded like he was already running semi auto and the backmarkers were useless at the same thing.
LukeBrown66 said:
People remember all sorts of things from their time watching F1, I recall the first car I ever saw, it was a Footwork coming down Hangar Straight, it was standing at the exit or Woodcote listening to them change gear and how Prost's changes sounded like he was already running semi auto and the backmarkers were useless at the same thing.
You were standing at the exit of Woodcote and saw the Footwork on Hangar Straight - isn't that the opposite side of the circuit?I think by the time Footwork was an F1 team, Prost would have been using a semi-auto 'box anyway.
Disclaimer - I may be wrong
A bit late to the party compared to most others on this thread, but '92 was the year I really started to watch F1. Obviously Mansell played a big part in that and the way he drove was so impressive to me as an 11 year old. Despite the car having such a massive performance advantage he's still go for it flat out, winning wasn't enough it felt like he wanted to lap the rest of the field.
One of the Greats - yes, for me. Not "the greatest", but certainly up there, would probably warrant a top 10 in my book.
One of the Greats - yes, for me. Not "the greatest", but certainly up there, would probably warrant a top 10 in my book.
jonnylayze said:
I agree with Kinetic - your list of the greats is ok as far as it goes (although where is Moss? and I wouldn't put Prost in there).
reading back through the thread & i had to laugh at the aboveProst beat, in the SAME car: Lauda (1985); Rosberg (1986); Senna (1989); Mansell (1990); Hill (1993) ...all were either WDC's or would subsequently go on to become WDC's
Just because he was unspectacular, doesn't mean he wasn't a great (in fact i'd have him as equal number 1 with Senna)
As for Nige, very very good ...but nowhere near a great (sorry)
Mansell was my favourite driver as a kid and that's largely thanks to my dad who was a Mansell fan from the mid 80s onwards. As a result I was and remain a huge Mansell fan to this day.
Could he be considered an all time great? Probably not when you compare him to those who became iconic beyond the bounds of F1 such as Senna, Schumacher or more recently Hamilton.
Is he a great? Yes absolutely. There is no doubt in my mind that he was most entertaining and thrilling to watch. Something was always going to happen when Mansell was on it and he is in the top few percent of all grand prix drivers. He is part of the small 32 man club of World Champion's after all.
I was stood at the Old Hairpin for the BTCC when he clattered the bridge in 1993 knocking himself out and was there again when he came storming through the field in 1998 in the rain. Great memories and classic Mansell.
His performances over in the USA were exceptional and I must disagree with a previous post who said he was hardly racing against top drivers. Lets not forget he was racing against oval specialists and all time great names such as Andretti, Unser, Fittipaldi, Mears etc... to go there and achieve what he did against those guys was special. I doubt very much that will ever be seen again.
He was never rattled by Senna and I recall reading a book years ago where Senna was quoted as saying he held the most respect for Mansell out of all the drivers he raced with in F1. That speaks volumes.
Someone posted way back in this thread that he was a 'right car right time guy' and I just can't agree with that. He won multiple times, over multiple seasons against teammates and rivals, some of who are now revered among the greatest to ever sit in a grand prix car. In many respects his one single world title is not reflective of the career. He could have and probably should have won more but for bad luck and injury. '86 and '87 come to mind.
The Mansell mania summer days at Silverstone will never get old. He is a British sporting legend.
Could he be considered an all time great? Probably not when you compare him to those who became iconic beyond the bounds of F1 such as Senna, Schumacher or more recently Hamilton.
Is he a great? Yes absolutely. There is no doubt in my mind that he was most entertaining and thrilling to watch. Something was always going to happen when Mansell was on it and he is in the top few percent of all grand prix drivers. He is part of the small 32 man club of World Champion's after all.
I was stood at the Old Hairpin for the BTCC when he clattered the bridge in 1993 knocking himself out and was there again when he came storming through the field in 1998 in the rain. Great memories and classic Mansell.
His performances over in the USA were exceptional and I must disagree with a previous post who said he was hardly racing against top drivers. Lets not forget he was racing against oval specialists and all time great names such as Andretti, Unser, Fittipaldi, Mears etc... to go there and achieve what he did against those guys was special. I doubt very much that will ever be seen again.
He was never rattled by Senna and I recall reading a book years ago where Senna was quoted as saying he held the most respect for Mansell out of all the drivers he raced with in F1. That speaks volumes.
Someone posted way back in this thread that he was a 'right car right time guy' and I just can't agree with that. He won multiple times, over multiple seasons against teammates and rivals, some of who are now revered among the greatest to ever sit in a grand prix car. In many respects his one single world title is not reflective of the career. He could have and probably should have won more but for bad luck and injury. '86 and '87 come to mind.
The Mansell mania summer days at Silverstone will never get old. He is a British sporting legend.
TwentyFive said:
He was never rattled by Senna and I recall reading a book years ago where Senna was quoted as saying he held the most respect for Mansell out of all the drivers he raced with in F1. That speaks volumes.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I will say that everyone seems to have a quote from Senna in their book that suits their agenda.The man seems to have spent a lot of time saying contradictory things in the years running up to his death
Muzzer79 said:
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I will say that everyone seems to have a quote from Senna in their book that suits their agenda.
The man seems to have spent a lot of time saying contradictory things in the years running up to his death
Yes that's very true! The man seems to have spent a lot of time saying contradictory things in the years running up to his death
To put it another way then... the only driver who would regularly come out of a wheel to wheel battle with Senna both ahead and with all 4 wheels on still his wagon was Mansell. The Senna quote I mentioned about respect seemed to confirm that as Senna clearly knew Mansell was no pushover.
I have a cabinet of racing books behind me and no idea which one it is in! I have a feeling it may have been someone who was teammate to Senna that referenced it, maybe Hill? I don't know.
A friend of mine loathed him so much he asked Tiff to sign an autograph for him and mention it on the card!!
I think he was great as a kid, but as an adult you kept sort of facepalming, but some of the things he did, the pass on Berger, the Piquet move, the CART stuff are proper Boys Own stuff and should not be taken for granted consider they were against top guys on tough tracks in tough cars.
A legend in the UK and probably Italy but not a great, as he was in the era were there were two greats, arguably three.
I think he was great as a kid, but as an adult you kept sort of facepalming, but some of the things he did, the pass on Berger, the Piquet move, the CART stuff are proper Boys Own stuff and should not be taken for granted consider they were against top guys on tough tracks in tough cars.
A legend in the UK and probably Italy but not a great, as he was in the era were there were two greats, arguably three.
Some drivers have the ability to jump into a car and wring everything out of it .
Others have the need to refine everything on the car before they can perform.
Nigel had a huge heart and a huge pair of clackers on him . He also gambled everything to progress in motorsport , him and his long suffering wife worked several jobs and put their house on the line .
I was lucky enough to witness some of his qualifying laps and they were spine tingling to see up close .
As a driver I had deep respect for him , in general he was a bit of a whingeing brummie but you could forgive him a lot when you learn how much pain he was in for most of his time in race cars.
Others have the need to refine everything on the car before they can perform.
Nigel had a huge heart and a huge pair of clackers on him . He also gambled everything to progress in motorsport , him and his long suffering wife worked several jobs and put their house on the line .
I was lucky enough to witness some of his qualifying laps and they were spine tingling to see up close .
As a driver I had deep respect for him , in general he was a bit of a whingeing brummie but you could forgive him a lot when you learn how much pain he was in for most of his time in race cars.
For your viewing pleasure.....
https://youtu.be/-Qci4LzRtN8
Outside Concorde agreement 3 so no dramas for Haymarket etc etc...
https://youtu.be/-Qci4LzRtN8
Outside Concorde agreement 3 so no dramas for Haymarket etc etc...
He would probably just make my list of top 20 F1 drivers, he was fast and had commitment but when he won it was all his effort, when he lost it was someone else’s fault....Mansell brought out the worst in British F1 fans, being racially abused at Silverstone in 92 for having a Brazilian flag soured my opinion of him for sure but I know he had no part in that, I just associate him with oafish w
kers.
kers.TVR1 said:
For your viewing pleasure.....
https://youtu.be/-Qci4LzRtN8
Outside Concorde agreement 3 so no dramas for Haymarket etc etc...
BIG thanks for posting. It was certainly a pleasure to watch.https://youtu.be/-Qci4LzRtN8
Outside Concorde agreement 3 so no dramas for Haymarket etc etc...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAZwfvZZxwY
32 wins in 42 starts in his Formula Ford career!!
Pretty impressive
32 wins in 42 starts in his Formula Ford career!!
Pretty impressive
I read a story recently about when Eddie Jordan persuaded Mansell to test for Jordan Peugeot at the end of the 1996 season (not sure if it was a publicity stunt, or whether they were actually serious about signing him for 1997). By that time, 43 years old - he turned up at Barcelona having not driven an F1 car since the disastrous McLaren adventure the year before. His best lap was within a few tenths of Ralf Schumacher, and then he said "my hands are cold, I'm coming in for a cup of tea" - proper British sporting hero 
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