Lewis Hamilton G.O.A.T. ?
Discussion
IforB said:
Groot said:
The guys needs to shut his cake hole and zip it. Just be an F1 driver. It's true to say that to be the best you have to become universally disliked.... and Hamiton and Schumacher are the embodiment of this. Next.
Can someone hide the crayons. The toddlers seem to be making a mess. 
paulguitar said:
Ayrton was insanely good but, like Schumacher, he was dirty. To me, that massively damages their legacies.
It's easy to play clean when your car is demonstrably quicker than every other car in the field. He wasn't so clean when he had a team mate taking the challenge to him.One of the best? No doubt. GOAT? Difficult to agree with as the hybrid era has only ever had one winning constructor and Bottas was chosen not to rock the boat. There is no doubt that the nuances of the hybrid era have inflated the figures. Even in the Seb and Michael eras, there were seasons where it was a close fight.
Landcrab_Six said:
paulguitar said:
Ayrton was insanely good but, like Schumacher, he was dirty. To me, that massively damages their legacies.
It's easy to play clean when your car is demonstrably quicker than every other car in the field. He wasn't so clean when he had a team mate taking the challenge to him.One of the best? No doubt. GOAT? Difficult to agree with as the hybrid era has only ever had one winning constructor and Bottas was chosen not to rock the boat. There is no doubt that the nuances of the hybrid era have inflated the figures. Even in the Set and Michael eras, there were seasons where it was a close fight.
The same simply can't be said for Senna or Schumacher, both of whom behaved completely unacceptably on more than one occasion. And let's not pretend that both did not have their time in dominant cars. They did.
I think we mostly agree here on this thread that it's not possible to have a 'GOAT' in F1 as different eras are impossible to compare. Hamilton stands alongside any driver in the history of the sport and is plainly the best of his generation.
paulguitar said:
Landcrab_Six said:
paulguitar said:
Ayrton was insanely good but, like Schumacher, he was dirty. To me, that massively damages their legacies.
It's easy to play clean when your car is demonstrably quicker than every other car in the field. He wasn't so clean when he had a team mate taking the challenge to him.One of the best? No doubt. GOAT? Difficult to agree with as the hybrid era has only ever had one winning constructor and Bottas was chosen not to rock the boat. There is no doubt that the nuances of the hybrid era have inflated the figures. Even in the Set and Michael eras, there were seasons where it was a close fight.
Bo_apex said:
Lauda blamed Hamilton for taking out Rosberg in Barcelona.
They did have a couple of seasons of being attracted to each other's cars - same as Hamilton and Massa did for a while.I think it's easy to say he's a clean driver in the latter years where there's little competition - but the signs are that he'd have competed just as hard as Senna and Schumacher if the same pressures had been there.
The hybrid era has been an outlier, nobody has ever had such a stand out package for such an extended period before.
Landcrab_Six said:
the signs are that he'd have competed just as hard as Senna and Schumacher if the same pressures had been there.
That's just you speculating. He's had similar levels of pressure to Senna and Schumacher, for example, two final race title deciders, and has singularly failed to 'do a Schuey'.The facts are that he's been a very clean driver overall.
Used to enjoy Hamilton racing in the McLaren and to a certain extent against Rosberg in the Merc. But those days seem a long time ago now.
If his car doesn't breakdown, he wins. Seems more or less zero competition. The merc is miles ahead and Bottas isn't as quick.
Shame.
In a tight title battle i'd be routing for him. Nothing to really cheer about these days. All far too inevitable.
Just can't believe the people in F1 have let it be like this for so long now. Remember the days when you'd tune in for all the build-up, shout at the tele during the race, then want all the analysis afterwards. Now I can't even be bothered with the highlights show on C4.
None of this is Hamilton's fault of course but it will be used against him for decades to come when they try and figure out who was the best. He'll certainly have the most records. But then he had the least competition. Shame.
If his car doesn't breakdown, he wins. Seems more or less zero competition. The merc is miles ahead and Bottas isn't as quick.
Shame.
In a tight title battle i'd be routing for him. Nothing to really cheer about these days. All far too inevitable.
Just can't believe the people in F1 have let it be like this for so long now. Remember the days when you'd tune in for all the build-up, shout at the tele during the race, then want all the analysis afterwards. Now I can't even be bothered with the highlights show on C4.
None of this is Hamilton's fault of course but it will be used against him for decades to come when they try and figure out who was the best. He'll certainly have the most records. But then he had the least competition. Shame.
clarki said:
Used to enjoy Hamilton racing in the McLaren and to a certain extent against Rosberg in the Merc. But those days seem a long time ago now.
If his car doesn't breakdown, he wins. Seems more or less zero competition. The merc is miles ahead and Bottas isn't as quick.
Shame.
In a tight title battle i'd be routing for him. Nothing to really cheer about these days. All far too inevitable.
Just can't believe the people in F1 have let it be like this for so long now. Remember the days when you'd tune in for all the build-up, shout at the tele during the race, then want all the analysis afterwards. Now I can't even be bothered with the highlights show on C4.
None of this is Hamilton's fault of course but it will be used against him for decades to come when they try and figure out who was the best. He'll certainly have the most records. But then he had the least competition. Shame.
But then he's broken most of his competition, Rosberg couldn't handle it and had to run away and Bottas looks like a man facing the gallows. Even Alonso lot the plot for a while and the young guns are in awe of him. Hamiltons greatest asset is he rarely makes mistakes, not ignoring his supreme pace of course. If his car doesn't breakdown, he wins. Seems more or less zero competition. The merc is miles ahead and Bottas isn't as quick.
Shame.
In a tight title battle i'd be routing for him. Nothing to really cheer about these days. All far too inevitable.
Just can't believe the people in F1 have let it be like this for so long now. Remember the days when you'd tune in for all the build-up, shout at the tele during the race, then want all the analysis afterwards. Now I can't even be bothered with the highlights show on C4.
None of this is Hamilton's fault of course but it will be used against him for decades to come when they try and figure out who was the best. He'll certainly have the most records. But then he had the least competition. Shame.
As an F1 driver he really is the complete package with a record to show for it. The Merc won't always be the fastest car and when it happens I don't think he'll end up like Vettel.
Harry H said:
But then he's broken most of his competition, Rosberg couldn't handle it and had to run away and Bottas looks like a man facing the gallows. Even Alonso lot the plot for a while and the young guns are in awe of him. Hamiltons greatest asset is he rarely makes mistakes, not ignoring his supreme pace of course.
As an F1 driver he really is the complete package with a record to show for it. The Merc won't always be the fastest car and when it happens I don't think he'll end up like Vettel.
Yep. What we are seeing right now is, I think, something that many may only appreciate once he's retired. He's always had massive natural pace, that was clear from way before he reached F1. The way he has mastered every facet of the formula as it is now is just unparalleled.As an F1 driver he really is the complete package with a record to show for it. The Merc won't always be the fastest car and when it happens I don't think he'll end up like Vettel.
He very rarely makes a mistake, he's able to somehow nurse his tyres whilst going quicker than the others, he uses less fuel whilst doing so, and it still the master of wheel-to-wheel battles when required. There just seem to be no weak points.
Still of the view that what he achieved in 2007-2008 is more impressive than anything since. The absolute thrashing of Bottas indicates that Rosberg actually gave Lewis a bit of a challenge.Winning by default is still impressive, but it's not the same as taking on three other tier 1 drivers as per 2007 (in similar cars, some might jokingly say identical cars).
Harry H said:
But then he's broken most of his competition, Rosberg couldn't handle it and had to run away and Bottas looks like a man facing the gallows. Even Alonso lot the plot for a while and the young guns are in awe of him. Hamiltons greatest asset is he rarely makes mistakes, not ignoring his supreme pace of course.
As an F1 driver he really is the complete package with a record to show for it. The Merc won't always be the fastest car and when it happens I don't think he'll end up like Vettel.
No I don't think he'll do a Vettel either. As an F1 driver he really is the complete package with a record to show for it. The Merc won't always be the fastest car and when it happens I don't think he'll end up like Vettel.
But in the earlier days, when he had competition, he got rattled too and made mistakes, he's only human. But he battled back. Great to watch, the mark of a true champion. My point is we've not seen that for years. Rosberg pushed him, no doubt.
Bottas has never really been competition for Hamilton and the young guns are probably more in awe of his car tbh. The merc isn't the fastest car, it's absolutely miles ahead.
While there appears to be less competition, I'm doubtful over whether the overall situation would be significantly different with any other driver in the second merc seat.
And I wouldn't put that against the others, a number of teams have been running young driver programs for years trying to put the absolute best talent into their cars and while they have had a couple of very, very good drivers, none of them have managed to find another Lewis
And I wouldn't put that against the others, a number of teams have been running young driver programs for years trying to put the absolute best talent into their cars and while they have had a couple of very, very good drivers, none of them have managed to find another Lewis
clarki said:
Used to enjoy Hamilton racing in the McLaren and to a certain extent against Rosberg in the Merc. But those days seem a long time ago now.
If his car doesn't breakdown, he wins. Seems more or less zero competition. The merc is miles ahead and Bottas isn't as quick.
Shame.
In a tight title battle i'd be routing for him. Nothing to really cheer about these days. All far too inevitable.
Just can't believe the people in F1 have let it be like this for so long now. Remember the days when you'd tune in for all the build-up, shout at the tele during the race, then want all the analysis afterwards. Now I can't even be bothered with the highlights show on C4.
None of this is Hamilton's fault of course but it will be used against him for decades to come when they try and figure out who was the best. He'll certainly have the most records. But then he had the least competition. Shame.
Same here. Since the late ‘70’s I used to watch every race - and go to at least one every year (plus test sessions). Finally got to stage last weekend where I didn’t even listen to 5 Live this time. Looked at the results: first four as per grid. Mercs in a different time zone. Apparently things got mixed up at the start, but so what? Hamilton could win from the back of the grid if necessary.If his car doesn't breakdown, he wins. Seems more or less zero competition. The merc is miles ahead and Bottas isn't as quick.
Shame.
In a tight title battle i'd be routing for him. Nothing to really cheer about these days. All far too inevitable.
Just can't believe the people in F1 have let it be like this for so long now. Remember the days when you'd tune in for all the build-up, shout at the tele during the race, then want all the analysis afterwards. Now I can't even be bothered with the highlights show on C4.
None of this is Hamilton's fault of course but it will be used against him for decades to come when they try and figure out who was the best. He'll certainly have the most records. But then he had the least competition. Shame.
Hamilton’s record is almost as irrelevant as Schumacher’s was considering the lacj of credible competition (for whatever reason).
‘Fraid it’s a dumbed-down sport, in a dumbed-down age, for dumbed-down viewers.
Ian974 said:
While there appears to be less competition, I'm doubtful over whether the overall situation would be significantly different with any other driver in the second merc seat.
And I wouldn't put that against the others, a number of teams have been running young driver programs for years trying to put the absolute best talent into their cars and while they have had a couple of very, very good drivers, none of them have managed to find another Lewis
Red Bull have quite a good driver in their car!!And I wouldn't put that against the others, a number of teams have been running young driver programs for years trying to put the absolute best talent into their cars and while they have had a couple of very, very good drivers, none of them have managed to find another Lewis
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