Lewis Hamilton G.O.A.T. ?

[A44RON]

Bo_apex said:

vdn said:

A44RON said:

It's worth noting that it took Hamilton 15 more races to reach the 91-win milestone on his 261st start with considerably more sustained dominant machinery throughout his career so far, while Schumacher took his 91st race win on his 246th start.

Schumacher contractually had an advantage, and so before the engines even fired up at the first race of a season, he was a leg up. Hamilton has never had the same nor has he asked for it. Worth noting.

That's because Schumacher's fight was with other faster teams.
Mercedes don't have that problem.

Ferrari have traditionally put more support behind their fastest driver. Gives them an outside chance

This is true. The only dominant cars Schumacher had were 2002 & 2004.

Nico Rosberg said in an interview a couple of years ago something along the lines of being in a dominant car conserves 5% of your brain capacity during a race because you only have to concentrate on your teammate and nobody else, because you have the utmost self-confidence in your machinery and therefore reduces pressure and mistakes.

[Exige77]

A44RON said:

Bo_apex said:

vdn said:

A44RON said:

It's worth noting that it took Hamilton 15 more races to reach the 91-win milestone on his 261st start with considerably more sustained dominant machinery throughout his career so far, while Schumacher took his 91st race win on his 246th start.

Schumacher contractually had an advantage, and so before the engines even fired up at the first race of a season, he was a leg up. Hamilton has never had the same nor has he asked for it. Worth noting.

That's because Schumacher's fight was with other faster teams.
Mercedes don't have that problem.

Ferrari have traditionally put more support behind their fastest driver. Gives them an outside chance

This is true. The only dominant cars Schumacher had were 2002 & 2004.

Nico Rosberg said in an interview a couple of years ago something along the lines of being in a dominant car conserves 5% of your brain capacity during a race because you only have to concentrate on your teammate and nobody else, because you have the utmost self-confidence in your machinery and therefore reduces pressure and mistakes.

Schumacher didn’t have to concentrate on his team mate

[HighwayStar]

Exige77 said:

A44RON said:

Bo_apex said:

vdn said:

A44RON said:

It's worth noting that it took Hamilton 15 more races to reach the 91-win milestone on his 261st start with considerably more sustained dominant machinery throughout his career so far, while Schumacher took his 91st race win on his 246th start.

Schumacher contractually had an advantage, and so before the engines even fired up at the first race of a season, he was a leg up. Hamilton has never had the same nor has he asked for it. Worth noting.

That's because Schumacher's fight was with other faster teams.
Mercedes don't have that problem.

Ferrari have traditionally put more support behind their fastest driver. Gives them an outside chance

This is true. The only dominant cars Schumacher had were 2002 & 2004.

Nico Rosberg said in an interview a couple of years ago something along the lines of being in a dominant car conserves 5% of your brain capacity during a race because you only have to concentrate on your teammate and nobody else, because you have the utmost self-confidence in your machinery and therefore reduces pressure and mistakes.

Schumacher didn’t have to concentrate on his team mate

Exactly... they all knew their place. Basically they were his biatch.

[Bo_apex]

HighwayStar said:

Exige77 said:

A44RON said:

Bo_apex said:

vdn said:

A44RON said:

It's worth noting that it took Hamilton 15 more races to reach the 91-win milestone on his 261st start with considerably more sustained dominant machinery throughout his career so far, while Schumacher took his 91st race win on his 246th start.

Schumacher contractually had an advantage, and so before the engines even fired up at the first race of a season, he was a leg up. Hamilton has never had the same nor has he asked for it. Worth noting.

That's because Schumacher's fight was with other faster teams.
Mercedes don't have that problem.

Ferrari have traditionally put more support behind their fastest driver. Gives them an outside chance

This is true. The only dominant cars Schumacher had were 2002 & 2004.

Nico Rosberg said in an interview a couple of years ago something along the lines of being in a dominant car conserves 5% of your brain capacity during a race because you only have to concentrate on your teammate and nobody else, because you have the utmost self-confidence in your machinery and therefore reduces pressure and mistakes.

Schumacher didn’t have to concentrate on his team mate

Exactly... they all knew their place. Basically they were his biatch.

The reality is they were all slower anyway. Ferrari had to throw all their eggs into the Schumacher basket to stand a chance.

They hadn't won a title for quite a while

[Bo_apex]

HighwayStar said:

Bo_apex said:

HighwayStar said:

...... but when Mercedes knocked for Max, contract in hand offering him the opportunity to play with them he re-signed with Chez RedBull. Jos believing his boy wasn’t ready to go up against Lewis in the same team. The offer was there. It wasn’t taken.

He was a spotty teenager and a bit wild for corporate Mercedes
Good decision from his father.

Lol... that was basically a swerve. A bit wild for corporate Mercedes (I note the big ). A few PHers have said Lewis should be sacked for his ‘antics.’ He is certainly not the model corporate drone.
It’s interesting that a fair few PHers have said Max should be in the Merc, Lewis wouldn’t allow it blah blah.
Now we know it was offered to Max and turned down, yeah good decision, Max wasn’t ready.
Merc clearly thought it was. It least it’s put that one to bed

Yep clearly he wasn't ready, which seems reasonable to me. Also the DNA at Red Bull seems more suited to Max, more akin to Hesketh.
He has plenty of time but for F1's sake I hope he doesn't go to Mercedes. He'll be off into the distance like Hamilton.

But Max and LeClerc both at Mercedes could be fun.

[HighwayStar]

Bo_apex said:

HighwayStar said:

Exige77 said:

A44RON said:

Bo_apex said:

vdn said:

A44RON said:

It's worth noting that it took Hamilton 15 more races to reach the 91-win milestone on his 261st start with considerably more sustained dominant machinery throughout his career so far, while Schumacher took his 91st race win on his 246th start.

Schumacher contractually had an advantage, and so before the engines even fired up at the first race of a season, he was a leg up. Hamilton has never had the same nor has he asked for it. Worth noting.

That's because Schumacher's fight was with other faster teams.
Mercedes don't have that problem.

Ferrari have traditionally put more support behind their fastest driver. Gives them an outside chance

This is true. The only dominant cars Schumacher had were 2002 & 2004.

Nico Rosberg said in an interview a couple of years ago something along the lines of being in a dominant car conserves 5% of your brain capacity during a race because you only have to concentrate on your teammate and nobody else, because you have the utmost self-confidence in your machinery and therefore reduces pressure and mistakes.

Schumacher didn’t have to concentrate on his team mate

Exactly... they all knew their place. Basically they were his biatch.

The reality is they were all slower anyway. Ferrari had to throw all their eggs into the Schumacher basket to stand a chance.

They hadn't won a title for quite a while

Schumacher was a brilliant driver, no doubt. Most people understand why Ferrari ran the show that way but... the team mate was never allowed to compete. The call to let Schumi through would come early in the season. At least Merc allow the drivers to race, it’s up to Lewis’s team mate to gain the upper hand and should he get to that point of the season, the advantage of team orders. Of course if the opposition were closer then Merc would have to play things a little different.

[Bo_apex]

A44RON said:

Bo_apex said:

vdn said:

A44RON said:

It's worth noting that it took Hamilton 15 more races to reach the 91-win milestone on his 261st start with considerably more sustained dominant machinery throughout his career so far, while Schumacher took his 91st race win on his 246th start.

Schumacher contractually had an advantage, and so before the engines even fired up at the first race of a season, he was a leg up. Hamilton has never had the same nor has he asked for it. Worth noting.

That's because Schumacher's fight was with other faster teams.
Mercedes don't have that problem.

Ferrari have traditionally put more support behind their fastest driver. Gives them an outside chance

This is true. The only dominant cars Schumacher had were 2002 & 2004.

Nico Rosberg said in an interview a couple of years ago something along the lines of being in a dominant car conserves 5% of your brain capacity during a race because you only have to concentrate on your teammate and nobody else, because you have the utmost self-confidence in your machinery and therefore reduces pressure and mistakes.

The Benetton team said their car was 4 tenths slower than the Williams and McLaren. Schumacher arrived and could bridge the defecit on every lap.
His WDC team mate couldn't.

[paulguitar]

Bo_apex said:

The Benetton team said their car was 4 tenths slower than the Williams and McLaren. Schumacher arrived and could bridge the defecit on every lap.
His WDC team mate couldn't.

Nelson was 106 by then though.

[Exige77]

Bo_apex said:

The Benetton team said their car was 4 tenths slower than the Williams and McLaren. Schumacher arrived and could bridge the defecit on every lap.
His WDC team mate couldn't.

I don’t think anyone is saying Michael wasn’t a good driver ? Certainly one of the best.

Michael achieved a lot of good stats but he certainly had a lot of advantages along the way in his long career.

I think those advantages plus a bit of chicanery along the way have have tarnished his achievements in many peoples eyes.

Without some of Michael’s advantages, Lewis has surpassed Michael’s stats and is still adding to his tally.

[Bo_apex]

Exige77 said:

I don’t think anyone is saying Michael wasn’t a good driver ? Certainly one of the best.

Michael achieved a lot of good stats but he certainly had a lot of advantages along the way in his long career.

I think those advantages plus a bit of chicanery along the way have have tarnished his achievements in many peoples eyes.

Without some of Michael’s advantages, Lewis has surpassed Michael’s stats and is still adding to his tally.

Does a crushingly dominant Mercedes for 7 years count as an advantage ?

[Bo_apex]

HighwayStar said:

Bo_apex said:

HighwayStar said:

Exige77 said:

A44RON said:

Bo_apex said:

vdn said:

A44RON said:

It's worth noting that it took Hamilton 15 more races to reach the 91-win milestone on his 261st start with considerably more sustained dominant machinery throughout his career so far, while Schumacher took his 91st race win on his 246th start.

Schumacher contractually had an advantage, and so before the engines even fired up at the first race of a season, he was a leg up. Hamilton has never had the same nor has he asked for it. Worth noting.

That's because Schumacher's fight was with other faster teams.
Mercedes don't have that problem.

Ferrari have traditionally put more support behind their fastest driver. Gives them an outside chance

This is true. The only dominant cars Schumacher had were 2002 & 2004.

Nico Rosberg said in an interview a couple of years ago something along the lines of being in a dominant car conserves 5% of your brain capacity during a race because you only have to concentrate on your teammate and nobody else, because you have the utmost self-confidence in your machinery and therefore reduces pressure and mistakes.

Schumacher didn’t have to concentrate on his team mate

Exactly... they all knew their place. Basically they were his biatch.

The reality is they were all slower anyway. Ferrari had to throw all their eggs into the Schumacher basket to stand a chance.

They hadn't won a title for quite a while

Schumacher was a brilliant driver, no doubt. Most people understand why Ferrari ran the show that way but... the team mate was never allowed to compete. The call to let Schumi through would come early in the season. At least Merc allow the drivers to race, it’s up to Lewis’s team mate to gain the upper hand and should he get to that point of the season, the advantage of team orders. Of course if the opposition were closer then Merc would have to play things a little different.

Hmmmm...do you remember Maylasia 2013 ? It was the beginning of the season and Rosberg was faster. The signs of Team Hamilton had started.

Ron Dennis let slip it was Team Hamilton at McLaren.

[Exige77]

Bo_apex said:

Exige77 said:

I don’t think anyone is saying Michael wasn’t a good driver ? Certainly one of the best.

Michael achieved a lot of good stats but he certainly had a lot of advantages along the way in his long career.

I think those advantages plus a bit of chicanery along the way have have tarnished his achievements in many peoples eyes.

Without some of Michael’s advantages, Lewis has surpassed Michael’s stats and is still adding to his tally.

Does a crushingly dominant Mercedes for 7 years count as an advantage ?

The stats might say it’s crushingly dominant but it’s not been a case of just turn up and pick up the trophy.

Dominance has not been just good luck. The team (inc Lewis) has worked for it. Even when others have stretched the rules.

[Greeny]

Bo_apex said:

Exige77 said:

I don’t think anyone is saying Michael wasn’t a good driver ? Certainly one of the best.

Michael achieved a lot of good stats but he certainly had a lot of advantages along the way in his long career.

I think those advantages plus a bit of chicanery along the way have have tarnished his achievements in many peoples eyes.

Without some of Michael’s advantages, Lewis has surpassed Michael’s stats and is still adding to his tally.

Does a crushingly dominant Mercedes for 7 years count as an advantage ?

Only if you have a crushingly dominant driver in it

[Bo_apex]

paulguitar said:

Bo_apex said:

The Benetton team said their car was 4 tenths slower than the Williams and McLaren. Schumacher arrived and could bridge the defecit on every lap.
His WDC team mate couldn't.

Nelson was 106 by then though.

So much for experience eh ?

[Bo_apex]

Greeny said:

Bo_apex said:

Exige77 said:

I don’t think anyone is saying Michael wasn’t a good driver ? Certainly one of the best.

Michael achieved a lot of good stats but he certainly had a lot of advantages along the way in his long career.

I think those advantages plus a bit of chicanery along the way have have tarnished his achievements in many peoples eyes.

Without some of Michael’s advantages, Lewis has surpassed Michael’s stats and is still adding to his tally.

Does a crushingly dominant Mercedes for 7 years count as an advantage ?

Only if you have a crushingly dominant driver in it

Bottas is crushing the other teams too !

[paulguitar]

Bo_apex said:

Does a crushingly dominant Mercedes for 7 years count as an advantage ?

That's not been the case. Certainly, in at least two of those seasons, it was by no means a dominant car.

[Bo_apex]

Exige77 said:

Bo_apex said:

Exige77 said:

I don’t think anyone is saying Michael wasn’t a good driver ? Certainly one of the best.

Michael achieved a lot of good stats but he certainly had a lot of advantages along the way in his long career.

I think those advantages plus a bit of chicanery along the way have have tarnished his achievements in many peoples eyes.

Without some of Michael’s advantages, Lewis has surpassed Michael’s stats and is still adding to his tally.

Does a crushingly dominant Mercedes for 7 years count as an advantage ?

The stats might say it’s crushingly dominant but it’s not been a case of just turn up and pick up the trophy.

Dominance has not been just good luck. The team (inc Lewis) has worked for it. Even when others have stretched the rules.

I agree, and some forget that the Ferrari was truly dominant for just 2 seasons but many were still moaning about the tedium of Michael's dominance.
Fortunately the FIA reacted and did something about it.

[angrymoby]

Bo_apex said:

Bottas is crushing the other teams too !

apart from '17 ...& '18

[M5-911]

Bo_apex said:

Does a crushingly dominant Mercedes for 7 years count as an advantage ?

Not dominant last year and year before. Only their drivers were better.

[Bo_apex]

angrymoby said:

apart from '17 ...& '18

Exactly !
He takes a while to wake up