Lewis Hamilton G.O.A.T. ?
Discussion
Bottas is very good at qualifying but even he got outqualified by a very-over-the-hill Massa 4 times in 2016.
Bottas is another Barrichello, there are at least 4 drivers on today's grid more deserving of that Mercedes number two seat
Mercedes domination is down to having the best overall cars for 5 of the last 7 years, through the foundations, vastly huge resources they have and bringing it all together relentlessly year-on-year with a lot of hard work. It's definitely not just down to their driver combination.
Bottas is another Barrichello, there are at least 4 drivers on today's grid more deserving of that Mercedes number two seat
Mercedes domination is down to having the best overall cars for 5 of the last 7 years, through the foundations, vastly huge resources they have and bringing it all together relentlessly year-on-year with a lot of hard work. It's definitely not just down to their driver combination.
Edited by A44RON on Saturday 31st October 12:04
A44RON said:
Bottas is very good at qualifying but even he got outqualified by a very-over-the-hill Massa 4 times in 2016.
Bottas is another Barrichello, there are at least 4 drivers on today's grid more deserving of that Mercedes number two seat
Mercedes domination is down to having the best overall cars for 5 of the last 7 years, through the foundations, vastly huge resources they have and bringing it all together relentlessly year-on-year with a lot of hard work. It's definitely not just down to their driver combination.
No different to the ferrari schumacher years then......except they HAD barrichello to compare schumacher to. Lets also not pretend that Ferraris resources arent exactly small....they spend a comparable amount to MercedesBottas is another Barrichello, there are at least 4 drivers on today's grid more deserving of that Mercedes number two seat
Mercedes domination is down to having the best overall cars for 5 of the last 7 years, through the foundations, vastly huge resources they have and bringing it all together relentlessly year-on-year with a lot of hard work. It's definitely not just down to their driver combination.
Edited by A44RON on Saturday 31st October 12:04
WickerBill said:
No different to the ferrari schumacher years then......except they HAD barrichello to compare schumacher to. Lets also not pretend that Ferraris resources arent exactly small....they spend a comparable amount to Mercedes
& people seem to forget that Dietrich Mateschitz is also plowing $600m into F1 via his A & B teamsWickerBill said:
A44RON said:
Bottas is very good at qualifying but even he got outqualified by a very-over-the-hill Massa 4 times in 2016.
Bottas is another Barrichello, there are at least 4 drivers on today's grid more deserving of that Mercedes number two seat
Mercedes domination is down to having the best overall cars for 5 of the last 7 years, through the foundations, vastly huge resources they have and bringing it all together relentlessly year-on-year with a lot of hard work. It's definitely not just down to their driver combination.
No different to the ferrari schumacher years then......except they HAD barrichello to compare schumacher to. Lets also not pretend that Ferraris resources arent exactly small....they spend a comparable amount to MercedesBottas is another Barrichello, there are at least 4 drivers on today's grid more deserving of that Mercedes number two seat
Mercedes domination is down to having the best overall cars for 5 of the last 7 years, through the foundations, vastly huge resources they have and bringing it all together relentlessly year-on-year with a lot of hard work. It's definitely not just down to their driver combination.
Edited by A44RON on Saturday 31st October 12:04
I have to admit to not watching F1 as much as I did, but I do feel that Lewis though a great driver is not really worthy of the GOAT title, he was merely average often at the low days at McLaren often matched by Button, and was beaten by a team mate who ground out a title at Mercedes, No-one really got anywhere near a Stewart, Clark, Schumacher in their heyday as a team mate.
He has basically had the best car in an era with more races that any other so had relatively easy wins, meaning his win tally is over inflated. Titles fair enough, but for me he is worth about 3 or 4 not the ridiculous number he will eventually get.
One thing in his favour, I do not believe him to be dirty like Senna, Schumacher or Vettel, so that ease him into a new level for me. And his speed is beyonf doubt, but I also believe the odds are massively stacked in his favour right now, which is a shame.
He has basically had the best car in an era with more races that any other so had relatively easy wins, meaning his win tally is over inflated. Titles fair enough, but for me he is worth about 3 or 4 not the ridiculous number he will eventually get.
One thing in his favour, I do not believe him to be dirty like Senna, Schumacher or Vettel, so that ease him into a new level for me. And his speed is beyonf doubt, but I also believe the odds are massively stacked in his favour right now, which is a shame.
LukeBrown66 said:
I have to admit to not watching F1 as much as I did, but I do feel that Lewis though a great driver is not really worthy of the GOAT title, he was merely average often at the low days at McLaren often matched by Button, and was beaten by a team mate who ground out a title at Mercedes, No-one really got anywhere near a Stewart, Clark, Schumacher in their heyday as a team mate.
He has basically had the best car in an era with more races that any other so had relatively easy wins, meaning his win tally is over inflated. Titles fair enough, but for me he is worth about 3 or 4 not the ridiculous number he will eventually get.
One thing in his favour, I do not believe him to be dirty like Senna, Schumacher or Vettel, so that ease him into a new level for me. And his speed is beyonf doubt, but I also believe the odds are massively stacked in his favour right now, which is a shame.
Hmmm.. interesting He has basically had the best car in an era with more races that any other so had relatively easy wins, meaning his win tally is over inflated. Titles fair enough, but for me he is worth about 3 or 4 not the ridiculous number he will eventually get.
One thing in his favour, I do not believe him to be dirty like Senna, Schumacher or Vettel, so that ease him into a new level for me. And his speed is beyonf doubt, but I also believe the odds are massively stacked in his favour right now, which is a shame.
LukeBrown66 said:
I have to admit to not watching F1 as much as I did, but I do feel that Lewis though a great driver is not really worthy of the GOAT title, he was merely average often at the low days at McLaren often matched by Button, and was beaten by a team mate who ground out a title at Mercedes, No-one really got anywhere near a Stewart, Clark, Schumacher in their heyday as a team mate.
He has basically had the best car in an era with more races that any other so had relatively easy wins, meaning his win tally is over inflated. Titles fair enough, but for me he is worth about 3 or 4 not the ridiculous number he will eventually get.
One thing in his favour, I do not believe him to be dirty like Senna, Schumacher or Vettel, so that ease him into a new level for me. And his speed is beyonf doubt, but I also believe the odds are massively stacked in his favour right now, which is a shame.
Maybe the odds are in his favour because “his speed is beyond doubt”.He has basically had the best car in an era with more races that any other so had relatively easy wins, meaning his win tally is over inflated. Titles fair enough, but for me he is worth about 3 or 4 not the ridiculous number he will eventually get.
One thing in his favour, I do not believe him to be dirty like Senna, Schumacher or Vettel, so that ease him into a new level for me. And his speed is beyonf doubt, but I also believe the odds are massively stacked in his favour right now, which is a shame.
It’s a null and void argument for me when it comes to the best car. There is a reason the team investing the most went after a certain driver, and they’ve now reaped the rewards.
Let’s also not forget that Rosberg pushed him all the way (until he couldn’t go any more). Its not like he’s had it that easy when you compare to others in the past.
Another point I feel worth making is that although you cannot really compare to the likes of fangio etc, just think how much data there is no compared with back then. Team mates can literally look at every possible detail to work out where they are going slower. They can say okay I’m losing out at turn 2 and 6 and adapt accordingly. For this reason, to stand out in the era says something.
Edited by Spawn on Sunday 1st November 10:07
LukeBrown66 said:
I have to admit to not watching F1 as much as I did, but I do feel that Lewis though a great driver is not really worthy of the GOAT title, he was merely average often at the low days at McLaren often matched by Button, and was beaten by a team mate who ground out a title at Mercedes, No-one really got anywhere near a Stewart, Clark, Schumacher in their heyday as a team mate.
...
Strange to compare him to teammates and ignore him stunning Alonso in ‘07... ...
Hamilton has had better teammates and never asked for contractual favour or one way data shares. Unlike some others...
As for best car: as has been repeated, seemingly 1000 times, look at his career including pre F1. He’s dominated in inferior, equal and of course superior machinery.
You’re right about dirty drivers like MS. Most of the people who attempt to devalue LH’s achievements would be questioning his record more if he’d done even a fraction of what Michael did. It’s funny.
Hamilton beat Rosberg 3/1 and Button 2/1. Anyone watching those years will remember he was plainly a better driver than either. I think he actually lapped Button once. In equal equipment.
He's in the best car at the moment, no doubt about that. As were Fangio, Clark, Senna, and Prost. It doesn't devalue anyone's achievements. You just go out and achieve whatever you can, which in Hamilton's case is the best driver's career of all time.
He's in the best car at the moment, no doubt about that. As were Fangio, Clark, Senna, and Prost. It doesn't devalue anyone's achievements. You just go out and achieve whatever you can, which in Hamilton's case is the best driver's career of all time.
nickfrog said:
LukeBrown66 said:
and was beaten by a team mate who ground out a title at Mercedes
Did you watch the race at Sepang that year or had you stopped watching already? The professional performing at top of their game can make whatever it is they do look ridiculously easy when, what we’re actually seeing is talent, skill and hard work.
Edited by HighwayStar on Sunday 1st November 11:03
clarki said:
Has anyone ever won the title in not the best car?? Schumacher? Was the ferrari better than the mclaren in 2000?
Only asking 'cos don't know tbh.
Senna: 1991Only asking 'cos don't know tbh.
Schumacher: 1995, would've won it in 1999 if not for the broken leg, could make an argument for 2000 and 2003 too although very close
Hamilton: could make an argument for 2008 and 2018 although very close with Ferrari both years
paulguitar said:
A44RON said:
Bottas is very good at qualifying but even he got outqualified by a very-over-the-hill Massa 4 times in 2016.
So Bottas outqualified Massa by 17-4That is very one-sided.
Bottas is good at qualifying (very much less so in the race), but in no way would he out-qualify Verstappen over a season - Verstappen would absolutely destroy him like he has Albon & Gasly. I think Leclerc and Russell would too.
WickerBill said:
A44RON said:
Bottas is very good at qualifying but even he got outqualified by a very-over-the-hill Massa 4 times in 2016.
Bottas is another Barrichello, there are at least 4 drivers on today's grid more deserving of that Mercedes number two seat
Mercedes domination is down to having the best overall cars for 5 of the last 7 years, through the foundations, vastly huge resources they have and bringing it all together relentlessly year-on-year with a lot of hard work. It's definitely not just down to their driver combination.
No different to the ferrari schumacher years then......except they HAD barrichello to compare schumacher to. Lets also not pretend that Ferraris resources arent exactly small....they spend a comparable amount to MercedesBottas is another Barrichello, there are at least 4 drivers on today's grid more deserving of that Mercedes number two seat
Mercedes domination is down to having the best overall cars for 5 of the last 7 years, through the foundations, vastly huge resources they have and bringing it all together relentlessly year-on-year with a lot of hard work. It's definitely not just down to their driver combination.
Edited by A44RON on Saturday 31st October 12:04
It's the superior personnel & leadership bringing everything together consistently and better management, along with the vast resources in harmony that's created this sustained domination. I didn't say it was just money.
A44RON said:
paulguitar said:
A44RON said:
Bottas is very good at qualifying but even he got outqualified by a very-over-the-hill Massa 4 times in 2016.
So Bottas outqualified Massa by 17-4That is very one-sided.
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