Lewis Hamilton G.O.A.T. ?
Discussion
sparta6 said:
paulguitar said:
If Hamilton had been racing the sort of number 2 drivers that Schumacher had as teammates, they would have taken far fewer points off of each other and Lewis would now likely have 10 titles.
Like Bottas you mean ? 
Bottas is not even a Top 10 driver.
paulguitar said:
sparta6 said:
paulguitar said:
If Hamilton had been racing the sort of number 2 drivers that Schumacher had as teammates, they would have taken far fewer points off of each other and Lewis would now likely have 10 titles.
Like Bottas you mean ? Bottas is not even a Top 10 driver.
chuckh said:
Good driver ? Well yes but put him in one of the lower cars then see.....
Russell highlighted the car advantage last year.
To be great you have to be great not handed it to you with the massive car advantage....
Lol... we have another one.Russell highlighted the car advantage last year.
To be great you have to be great not handed it to you with the massive car advantage....
What do you think Max, Norris, Sainz, Leclerc or Alonso would achieve in one of the lower cars such as a Williams or Haas? Do tell.
If it was easy, Bottas would be right there with him.
George had one race in the Merc and did brilliantly but he is a driver that dropped his car on his own big style last year at Imola. Same venue this year, he dropped the ball again and destroyed two cars in the process. Still a learner!
To my mind Hamilton has done enough in lesser cars to show that he has the natural raw talent to be one of the best.
Unfortunately the way F1 is, and has always been to a greater or lesser extent, magnifies abilities and shortcomings. Great drivers are diminished by weaker cars, good drivers are elevated but amazing ones.
There has been a convergence of talent and development in recent years, since he joined Mercedes really, which has meant that - for casuals like me at least - the spectacle has suffered, but that’s the nature of the beast. It was the same with Vettel before, Schumacher previously, etc.
There’s no way of really solving this though, I don’t think. Cream rises to the top and the best drivers will end up driving for the most accomplished teams, and each year they will to a greater or lesser extent exploit the regulations to the best advantage.
It seems clear to me that Hamilton would drag lesser cars up the field more consistently than others. It would be interesting to see Vettel in a Mercedes and Hamilton in the Aston Martin, to see the comparison in fortunes. I suspect it would not play out exactly as it has so far. That’s not something we’ll ever see though, so we have to contextualise the greatness.
Unfortunately the way F1 is, and has always been to a greater or lesser extent, magnifies abilities and shortcomings. Great drivers are diminished by weaker cars, good drivers are elevated but amazing ones.
There has been a convergence of talent and development in recent years, since he joined Mercedes really, which has meant that - for casuals like me at least - the spectacle has suffered, but that’s the nature of the beast. It was the same with Vettel before, Schumacher previously, etc.
There’s no way of really solving this though, I don’t think. Cream rises to the top and the best drivers will end up driving for the most accomplished teams, and each year they will to a greater or lesser extent exploit the regulations to the best advantage.
It seems clear to me that Hamilton would drag lesser cars up the field more consistently than others. It would be interesting to see Vettel in a Mercedes and Hamilton in the Aston Martin, to see the comparison in fortunes. I suspect it would not play out exactly as it has so far. That’s not something we’ll ever see though, so we have to contextualise the greatness.
Durzel said:
we have to contextualise the greatness.
That's a brilliant summary of the entire topic.The context has changed so much over the years it is impossible to say who the GOAT is (beyond statistics).
But I find it even more impossible (and quite frankly absurd) to rule Hamilton out of that particular contest.
nickfrog said:
Durzel said:
we have to contextualise the greatness.
That's a brilliant summary of the entire topic.The context has changed so much over the years it is impossible to say who the GOAT is (beyond statistics).
But I find it even more impossible (and quite frankly absurd) to rule Hamilton out of that particular contest.
Edited by Gad-Westy on Tuesday 20th April 08:43
Gad-Westy said:
nickfrog said:
Durzel said:
we have to contextualise the greatness.
That's a brilliant summary of the entire topic.The context has changed so much over the years it is impossible to say who the GOAT is (beyond statistics).
But I find it even more impossible (and quite frankly absurd) to rule Hamilton out of that particular contest.
Typo ?
Exige77 said:
Gad-Westy said:
nickfrog said:
Durzel said:
we have to contextualise the greatness.
That's a brilliant summary of the entire topic.The context has changed so much over the years it is impossible to say who the GOAT is (beyond statistics).
But I find it even more impossible (and quite frankly absurd) to rule Hamilton out of that particular contest.
Typo ?
Muzzer79 said:
chuckh said:
To be great you have to be great not handed it to you with the massive car advantage....
Schumacher's Ferrari wasn't dominant then? I suggest you research 2002 and 2004 to start with.
Then Senna's Mclaren in '88 and '90.
paulguitar said:
It's round and round in circles with new ignoramuses showing up every so often. Or it could be the same one/two with different ID's.
Strongly suspect the latter.Especially when one of the established plonkers digs themselves in to a hole, suddenly there is another member with a very low post count agreeing with all they have said
rdjohn said:
It was great to see Lewis smiling yesterday. Yes it was his just his 99th pole, but that meant absolutely nothing compared to bettering the RBs on a day when the team clearly thought they were well short of of their pace.
I hope that Valteri’s P8 is not a true reflection of where the car really is.
Lewis is not a man looking to retire at the end of this season. He just loves racing too much.
He has consistently wished for closer racing and for the up and coming kids to give him a fight, I think a lot of people assumed that was just him being polite, usually followed up by comments along the lines of 'we will see how he feels when he's not winning'.I hope that Valteri’s P8 is not a true reflection of where the car really is.
Lewis is not a man looking to retire at the end of this season. He just loves racing too much.
I know we are only two races in but from the outside looking in he looks like he is as excited about F1 as he has been at any time in his career.
ch37 said:
He has consistently wished for closer racing and for the up and coming kids to give him a fight, I think a lot of people assumed that was just him being polite, usually followed up by comments along the lines of 'we will see how he feels when he's not winning'.
I know we are only two races in but from the outside looking in he looks like he is as excited about F1 as he has been at any time in his career.
Probably happy either way... I'm sure he wouldn't mind if this season was another walk in the park on the way to the 8th title that will statistically mark him as the most successful F1 driver ever, potentially for life..I know we are only two races in but from the outside looking in he looks like he is as excited about F1 as he has been at any time in his career.
On the other hand, I can easily believe he has a lot more fun actually battling for the title. Assuming he does win it this year, I have zero doubt he'll be forever thankful it didn't come easy.
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