Re. DELTA E-4 ELECTRIC COUPE REVEALED
Discussion
Here's the rub though, all these various people that develop cutting edge future technologies always focus on the "technology" The thing is, the "technology" is not the problem, it is the "cost"!
Pretty much everytime you hear "carbon fibre monocoque" and "0-60 in <5sec" and "electric" in the same sentance, you can almost guarentee that it will not make it into proper volume production........
what we need is a normal Ford Fiesta (say) that looks, drives, and costs the same as a current Fiesta, but just happens to run on electrickery ;-)
Pretty much everytime you hear "carbon fibre monocoque" and "0-60 in <5sec" and "electric" in the same sentance, you can almost guarentee that it will not make it into proper volume production........
what we need is a normal Ford Fiesta (say) that looks, drives, and costs the same as a current Fiesta, but just happens to run on electrickery ;-)
Max_Torque said:
What we need is a normal Ford Fiesta (say) that looks, drives, and costs the same as a current Fiesta, but just happens to run on electrickery ;-)
The problem is electricity - or rather battery-storage - is a fundamentally compromised way of producing a car. You need a very low CD and clever weight reduction techniques to make them competitive. Batteries are about a hundred times less energy dense (by mass) than petrol; the cost of the storage medium (i.e. the tank/battery) is about a thousand times higher; and it takes ten times longer to transfer the equivalent energy during battery recharging than it does in refuelling a car. So you have a very different task.
By applying a different approach rather than trying to 'electrify' a normal IC-engined car Delta has made something that actually appears to offer a more or less viable alternative. It feels not unlike a slightly bigger, heavier Elise from behind the wheel.
The cost remains a problem, but things like the press-moulded carbon fibre used on the E-4 bring it a lot closer to a realistic level. Don't forget even the most basic 'dog cart' was a luxury for the very rich when IC-engined cars first appeared at the end of the 19th century. We're only just starting to see serious development on electric cars.
Chris71 said:
The problem is electricity - or rather battery-storage - is a fundamentally compromised way of producing a car. You need a very low CD and clever weight reduction techniques to make them competitive.
Batteries are about a hundred times less energy dense (by mass) than petrol; the cost of the storage medium (i.e. the tank/battery) is about a thousand times higher; and it takes ten times longer to transfer the equivalent energy during battery recharging than it does in refuelling a car. So you have a very different task.
By applying a different approach rather than trying to 'electrify' a normal IC-engined car Delta has made something that actually appears to offer a more or less viable alternative. It feels not unlike a slightly bigger, heavier Elise from behind the wheel.
The cost remains a problem, but things like the press-moulded carbon fibre used on the E-4 bring it a lot closer to a realistic level. Don't forget even the most basic 'dog cart' was a luxury for the very rich when IC-engined cars first appeared at the end of the 19th century. We're only just starting to see serious development on electric cars.
That's the root of the very big problem with it - I don't see 10,000% efficiency gains being made. If you could store energy in a nice dense form it would be a no brainer. Maybe that's unfair as you don't *need* 800 miles per tank as my Jag proves but you do need 200+ for it to be usable in modern life. And batteries at the very best cutting edge are around a 10th the capacity of liquid chemical fuels*. That's about 250% improvement to make from potential energy into the car to motive energy out compared to current IC technology. I'm not sure that is possible at present.Batteries are about a hundred times less energy dense (by mass) than petrol; the cost of the storage medium (i.e. the tank/battery) is about a thousand times higher; and it takes ten times longer to transfer the equivalent energy during battery recharging than it does in refuelling a car. So you have a very different task.
By applying a different approach rather than trying to 'electrify' a normal IC-engined car Delta has made something that actually appears to offer a more or less viable alternative. It feels not unlike a slightly bigger, heavier Elise from behind the wheel.
The cost remains a problem, but things like the press-moulded carbon fibre used on the E-4 bring it a lot closer to a realistic level. Don't forget even the most basic 'dog cart' was a luxury for the very rich when IC-engined cars first appeared at the end of the 19th century. We're only just starting to see serious development on electric cars.
- I am aware of chemical/air batteries but I haven't seen any examples of that put their claims to the test. And they do sound very similar to IC engines don't they...
It's definitely a big challenge. I think the consensus is that electric vehicle will initially be confined to short trips or fitted with IC or turbine range extenders.
But still, the ability to cover a reasonable distance without any city centre tailpipe emissions (and potentially none at all with clean energy sources) could be very advantageous. They're also quiet, torquey, responsive and smooth, and purpose-built EVs tend to have lower centres of gravity than IC-engined cars, so they have the potential to be very rewarding to drive.
I can't see EVs out-selling turbo-downsized petrol engines any time soon, but someone needs to be doing the research for the future, and producing the low volume products for the early adopters. Personally I think it's a good thing that there's a small British firm up there with the front runners in this particular field.
But still, the ability to cover a reasonable distance without any city centre tailpipe emissions (and potentially none at all with clean energy sources) could be very advantageous. They're also quiet, torquey, responsive and smooth, and purpose-built EVs tend to have lower centres of gravity than IC-engined cars, so they have the potential to be very rewarding to drive.
I can't see EVs out-selling turbo-downsized petrol engines any time soon, but someone needs to be doing the research for the future, and producing the low volume products for the early adopters. Personally I think it's a good thing that there's a small British firm up there with the front runners in this particular field.
Chris71 said:
It's definitely a big challenge. I think the consensus is that electric vehicle will initially be confined to short trips.
Seeing that most dino powered cars do short trips 90% of the time its not a huge downsideAlso current fast charger tech can put a battery up to 80% charged in the crucial having a cup of tea and gong for a wizz timeframe.
All it really needs is for service stations to have a fast chargers or two and it will mean you can run electric as your only car if you have a driveway.
Its not going to overload the network as most charging will be done at night and only an utterly loony would say electric cars will be more then 10% of cars within ten years.
So stop building the bloody prototypes and give me a 2 seater battery car that isn't epically slow and costs less then ten grand.
Chris71 said:
I can't see EVs out-selling turbo-downsized petrol engines any time soon, but someone needs to be doing the research for the future, and producing the low volume products for the early adopters. Personally I think it's a good thing that there's a small British firm up there with the front runners in this particular field.
As he saidSR06 said:
Terminator X said:
Seems like electric is the future. How long before our petrol cars become worthless do you think? Don't want to get lumbered with something that cost me x thousand only for it to be worth x pence 
TX.
A loooooooooong timeTX.
Ex Boy Racer said:
SR06 said:
Terminator X said:
Seems like electric is the future. How long before our petrol cars become worthless do you think? Don't want to get lumbered with something that cost me x thousand only for it to be worth x pence
TX.
A loooooooooong timeTX.
Unfortunately, until this sort of thing goes "volume" then they will always be VERY expensive.
Take the power electronics, unless you want to roll your own main inverter (and you'd have to be someone the size of toyota etc to be able to afford that!) then this:
is about "state of the art" for an "off-the-shelf" system.
unfortunately, they cost circa £3700 each, and due to supply chain problems and serious demand from the wind power generation industry, if you want one, expect to have to wait till at least Christmas to get it.......
(when you consider the bill of materials for a complete current fiesta is not quite twice that price alone, you see the cost challenges that are still to be met before mass adoption of electrification)
Take the power electronics, unless you want to roll your own main inverter (and you'd have to be someone the size of toyota etc to be able to afford that!) then this:
is about "state of the art" for an "off-the-shelf" system.
unfortunately, they cost circa £3700 each, and due to supply chain problems and serious demand from the wind power generation industry, if you want one, expect to have to wait till at least Christmas to get it.......
(when you consider the bill of materials for a complete current fiesta is not quite twice that price alone, you see the cost challenges that are still to be met before mass adoption of electrification)
http://www.delta-motorsport.com/project08.htm
just like to point something out, these are the guys who designed and build the Hennessey Venom GT, for Hennessey. Big fish indeed.
just like to point something out, these are the guys who designed and build the Hennessey Venom GT, for Hennessey. Big fish indeed.
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