RE: 799bhp 'Mega McLaren' Due In 2014?
Discussion
E21_Ross said:
McLaren have already brought something new to their respective markets. show me another full carbon chassis for a similar price to the MP4-12C. Their no anti-roll bar system in road cars too.
do you ever post anything +ve by the way? you seem all -ve!
I just don't think it is good enough. Gordon Murry is trying something new with his small car & production process. McLaren are doing 'the same thing' with today's technology. What is fun it that?do you ever post anything +ve by the way? you seem all -ve!
Davey S2 said:
If they can sort out the looks it really will be mega.
I'm far more interested in the 3rd model they are planning which will be pitched at the 911 given very few people will be able to afford the more expensive models.
I suspect that will be the hardest one to deliver, simply because if you look at their current set up they are perfectly alligned to produce the small numbers of 12's and the smaller number of the mega Mac (with fries?) whereas, one would assume to obtain decent margin out of a smaller Macca you would require far larger volumes.I'm far more interested in the 3rd model they are planning which will be pitched at the 911 given very few people will be able to afford the more expensive models.
Selling large vols shouldn't be a problem if these 2 cars go well but it is the investment in space, staff etc to build in those numbers which could be a bit of an arse.
To be honest, it wouldn't surprise me if the 12 is the basic entry model and they will stick at building smaller numbers at higher prices. It would be reasonably difficult to scale down the 12 to justify half the price tag differential etc. How would it work? It would be the same chassis, but crapper suspension and engine and a vinyl interior? They would need it to be better than a 911 but worse than a 12. I'm kind of muddling around here but how would they make a sub £100k car fit in around the 12?
If the 12 is the price floor then can they eek a 4 seater out of that floorpan and have a knock at the Panamera and Rapide? Can they build an SUV and knock the Cayenne etc?
It has to be asked that with the brand that Macca have is there any need to build anything cheaper than the 12? At Woking, my guess would be no. In a factory in Poland? Maybe. But it is an aweful lot of hassle and I guess all depends on the long term business model which I have not studied.
Or could they do something unexpected and produce the most amzing 1 litre, seriously super fast mini car? There certainly has to be a place for this in the current market?
Edited by DonkeyApple on Monday 16th May 11:33
MSTRBKR said:
rhinochopig said:
Why not just make it 800bhp - 799bhp is such an odd figure. Is there an 800bhp+ tax waiting in the wings or something?
Why make it 800 just because it's a round number? It is after all just a number used to represent the power of the engine. It's probably 799 because of something technical and McLaren aren't the kind to use the power output as a marketing tool or anything like that.Just seems odd given how fickle that market is.
Howard1650 said:
[AJ] said:
Guvernator said:
The engine already isn't a great start to be honest. I'm sure the numbers will be very impressive but a 5 lite turbo unit which only revs to 7500rpm isn't really getting me hot under the collar.
Agreed. Come on McLaren, we want 10k rpm!Howard1650 said:
I just don't think it is good enough. Gordon Murry is trying something new with his small car & production process. McLaren are doing 'the same thing' with today's technology. What is fun it that?
You don't think its good enough? Have you read anything about the MP4-12C, they are doing things very different compared to the other manufacturers! The suspension tech, the chassis tech, the electronics....I think its a brilliant looking thing and i am sure it will kick the competition into a corner. I just hope they bring a bit more flare and excitement to the table as far as the driving experience is concerned.
The car itself looks incredibly exciting but if its like the MP4-12C to drive it will be very VERY good but not great, not quite exciting enough (assuming all the reviews by motoring journalists have been accurate because of course i havn't driven one.....unfortunately)
I really REALLY want it to be as raw and exciting as the McLaren F1 which is still the ultimate in my eyes. After all we do exciting cars arguably better than anyone else in the world. Ariel, Caterham, Lotus, TVR, Bowler, Morgan etc. I am aware that TVR have gone now but there is such a strong following its like they never left
Maybe not on a large scale then but this is where McLaren comes in. Taking all that British engineering tallent and exciting car design but packaging it to sell at a mass production level all arround the world. I want them to go to the top so badly and put the UK back on the map for awesome fast cars.
The car itself looks incredibly exciting but if its like the MP4-12C to drive it will be very VERY good but not great, not quite exciting enough (assuming all the reviews by motoring journalists have been accurate because of course i havn't driven one.....unfortunately)
I really REALLY want it to be as raw and exciting as the McLaren F1 which is still the ultimate in my eyes. After all we do exciting cars arguably better than anyone else in the world. Ariel, Caterham, Lotus, TVR, Bowler, Morgan etc. I am aware that TVR have gone now but there is such a strong following its like they never left
Maybe not on a large scale then but this is where McLaren comes in. Taking all that British engineering tallent and exciting car design but packaging it to sell at a mass production level all arround the world. I want them to go to the top so badly and put the UK back on the map for awesome fast cars.
RobCrezz said:
You don't think its good enough? Have you read anything about the MP4-12C, they are doing things very different compared to the other manufacturers! The suspension tech, the chassis tech, the electronics....
Active suspension - didn't Senna have that in a GP car 20 years ago. A modular chassis - over 15 years, Lotus built 10 models off the same chassis, and we all b
hed about that in the end. A engine that's not a McLaren but designed by another company.The car is just another 'gas oven' with nice buttons, where is the 'mircowave'. This is the technology jump I want to see. Not just faster. Faster is no longer good enough.
rhinochopig said:
Because a lot of these cars will be sold to people where the image, is at the very least, as important as how it drives and looks. Remember the fuss when the 959 came out and how it couldn't quite crack 200mph but the F40 could.
Just seems odd given how fickle that market is.
The fickle drivers of the market will go for the Ferrari or Lamborghini equivalent anyway because they want to pose (not that every Ferrari or Lambo owner is like that). The kind of people that said the MP4-12C was too boring.Just seems odd given how fickle that market is.
MSTRBKR said:
The fickle drivers of the market will go for the Ferrari or Lamborghini equivalent anyway because they want to pose (not that every Ferrari or Lambo owner is like that). The kind of people that said the MP4-12C was too boring.
I'm sure that the obligatory MacMansory will serve those customers. I reckon in a few years time you will be able to buy a mega-mac for just a couple of quid.
Seriously, it'll be introduced as the range topper, just above the big-mac, but with 3 instead of 2 burgers :-)
Seriously though, reading the article, unless i've missed something, it just sounds like an mp4-12c with a bigger, more powerful engine.
How is that going to move the game on so much from other supercar manufacturers as they are claiming??
Seriously, it'll be introduced as the range topper, just above the big-mac, but with 3 instead of 2 burgers :-)
Seriously though, reading the article, unless i've missed something, it just sounds like an mp4-12c with a bigger, more powerful engine.
How is that going to move the game on so much from other supercar manufacturers as they are claiming??
Howard1650 said:
RobCrezz said:
You don't think its good enough? Have you read anything about the MP4-12C, they are doing things very different compared to the other manufacturers! The suspension tech, the chassis tech, the electronics....
Active suspension - didn't Senna have that in a GP car 20 years ago. A modular chassis - over 15 years, Lotus built 10 models off the same chassis, and we all bhed about that in the end. A engine that's not a McLaren but designed by another company.The car is just another 'gas oven' with nice buttons, where is the 'mircowave'. This is the technology jump I want to see. Not just faster. Faster is no longer good enough.
you really are being silly, you know that. McLaren have moved the game on big time with this car for the market. what car do you drive that is so special?
E21_Ross said:
Howard1650 said:
RobCrezz said:
You don't think its good enough? Have you read anything about the MP4-12C, they are doing things very different compared to the other manufacturers! The suspension tech, the chassis tech, the electronics....
Active suspension - didn't Senna have that in a GP car 20 years ago. A modular chassis - over 15 years, Lotus built 10 models off the same chassis, and we all bhed about that in the end. A engine that's not a McLaren but designed by another company.The car is just another 'gas oven' with nice buttons, where is the 'mircowave'. This is the technology jump I want to see. Not just faster. Faster is no longer good enough.
you really are being silly, you know that. McLaren have moved the game on big time with this car for the market. what car do you drive that is so special?
Going faster in the battle of top trumps is not longer a winner.
DonkeyApple said:
I suspect that will be the hardest one to deliver, simply because if you look at their current set up they are perfectly alligned to produce the small numbers of 12's and the smaller number of the mega Mac (with fries?) whereas, one would assume to obtain decent margin out of a smaller Macca you would require far larger volumes.
Selling large vols shouldn't be a problem if these 2 cars go well but it is the investment in space, staff etc to build in those numbers which could be a bit of an arse.
To be honest, it wouldn't surprise me if the 12 is the basic entry model and they will stick at building smaller numbers at higher prices. It would be reasonably difficult to scale down the 12 to justify half the price tag differential etc. How would it work? It would be the same chassis, but crapper suspension and engine and a vinyl interior? They would need it to be better than a 911 but worse than a 12. I'm kind of muddling around here but how would they make a sub £100k car fit in around the 12?
If the 12 is the price floor then can they eek a 4 seater out of that floorpan and have a knock at the Panamera and Rapide? Can they build an SUV and knock the Cayenne etc?
It has to be asked that with the brand that Macca have is there any need to build anything cheaper than the 12? At Woking, my guess would be no. In a factory in Poland? Maybe. But it is an aweful lot of hassle and I guess all depends on the long term business model which I have not studied.
Or could they do something unexpected and produce the most amzing 1 litre, seriously super fast mini car? There certainly has to be a place for this in the current market?
It might well be that they may cancel plans for a model below the 12C depending on how sales go, but certainly they could easily build a more conventional chassis (with rollbars) and use "F1 tech" to distinguish from the 12C. With less power, conventional doors, etc. such a car could easily be decontented enough to slot it in a <£100K bracket. I don't expect they will go chasing vanilla 911 sales, but rather hunt for sales of GT3 and similar variants.Selling large vols shouldn't be a problem if these 2 cars go well but it is the investment in space, staff etc to build in those numbers which could be a bit of an arse.
To be honest, it wouldn't surprise me if the 12 is the basic entry model and they will stick at building smaller numbers at higher prices. It would be reasonably difficult to scale down the 12 to justify half the price tag differential etc. How would it work? It would be the same chassis, but crapper suspension and engine and a vinyl interior? They would need it to be better than a 911 but worse than a 12. I'm kind of muddling around here but how would they make a sub £100k car fit in around the 12?
If the 12 is the price floor then can they eek a 4 seater out of that floorpan and have a knock at the Panamera and Rapide? Can they build an SUV and knock the Cayenne etc?
It has to be asked that with the brand that Macca have is there any need to build anything cheaper than the 12? At Woking, my guess would be no. In a factory in Poland? Maybe. But it is an aweful lot of hassle and I guess all depends on the long term business model which I have not studied.
Or could they do something unexpected and produce the most amzing 1 litre, seriously super fast mini car? There certainly has to be a place for this in the current market?
Edited by DonkeyApple on Monday 16th May 11:33
OTOH, I'm reasonably convinced that the fact a car costs, say £50K more than another is worth the £50K to a majority of the target market.
E21_Ross said:
Howard1650 said:
RobCrezz said:
You don't think its good enough? Have you read anything about the MP4-12C, they are doing things very different compared to the other manufacturers! The suspension tech, the chassis tech, the electronics....
Active suspension - didn't Senna have that in a GP car 20 years ago. A modular chassis - over 15 years, Lotus built 10 models off the same chassis, and we all bhed about that in the end. A engine that's not a McLaren but designed by another company.The car is just another 'gas oven' with nice buttons, where is the 'mircowave'. This is the technology jump I want to see. Not just faster. Faster is no longer good enough.
you really are being silly, you know that. McLaren have moved the game on big time with this car for the market. what car do you drive that is so special?
Mclaren is furthering the performance envelope of what is CURRENTLY possible with todays technology. Hybrid technology, fuel cell technology etc is still in its infancy (relatively). Similar ot what Bugatti did, however it cost them £5M+ for each unit which they sold for £1M each.
So if Mclaren can match that performance, at half the cost AND make money on each unit - that is a price / performance jump - surely!!!
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