Are todays sports cars just too good??

[Streetrod]

Over my coffee and danish this morning I read a couple of articles in this months new Top Gear Magazine. And again they got me thinking about a pet bug bear of mine, the direction of the modern super car.

First there was a review of the new Lambo Aventador by James May. And what he seemed to conclude was that the Lambo was a great motorway GT but too compromised to be much fun over a twisty A or B road. He also mentioned that the car was civilised and refined. The quest to hit the big numbers has actually made the car less of a driver’s car.

I then read the article about Dario Franchitti, the triple Indy car champion. This guy is a real gear head which is surprisingly rare in racing drivers. Describing why he chopped in his new Ferrari 458 after only two weeks and 700 miles he said "To be honest, I didn’t like the noise it made" and "Its a wee bit artificial, especially after that" pointing to his F40.

With cars like the 458 and the McLaren MP4-12C are we now seeing the car equivalent of the Stepford Wives, superficially perfect but fundamentally flawed?

With the constant push to out do each other and the march of legislation are we sleep walking into an era of how can I say this "Boring" super cars?

Even lower down the ranks the next generation of BMW M Cars will all be turbo's with DSG gearboxes, doing away with the NA engines and manual gearboxes that marked these cars out as greats.

Much as I am not a fan of 911's if I had the spare cash now I would be putting in an order for the run out 4.00-litre 911 GT3RS. I think it could be one of the last great analogue cars.

Discuss…

[Henry Fiddleton]

I agree, although that said I have not had the oppourtunity to have a go of any of that kit.

[George H]

I think supercars have gone so boring over the past decade, can't think of one I would want to own.

Ones from the 80s and 90s appeal so much more to me, even though they are aren't as good a car.

[greeneggsnsam]

There will always be a market for a proper driver's car. Aeriel, Noble, TVR, Caterham, Lotus, etc etc will all continue to make their specialist cars (and with Lotus now trying to compete with the like of Aston Martin, another driver's car co., there will surely be some brilliant driver's supercars).

[Pork]

Yes.

I've thought it for a while, but simple motoring can be far more enjoyable. I've driven/owned all sorts from all sorts of manufacturers - Lamborghini, Ferrari, Maserati, Porsche, M-Power cars...all sorts....and yet, some of the best smiles I have had have been in things like a 1987 Golf GTi which cost £600. Ah, how I miss that little golf...

[Streetrod]

greeneggsnsam said:

There will always be a market for a proper driver's car. Aeriel, Noble, TVR, Caterham, Lotus, etc etc will all continue to make their specialist cars (and with Lotus now trying to compete with the like of Aston Martin, another driver's car co., there will surely be some brilliant driver's supercars).

I hope that is true and that Brussels does not legislate them out of existence.

Let’s not forget that even Lotus is trying to go more upmarket and moving away from their core customer base. To do that successfully their product will have to be similar or so different so as to offer a real alternative for the 911 buyer which is a very risky move to take in these times.

[ewenm]

I guess it depends what you want to get from your driving. If it's chasing those elusive tenths of a second on the Nurburgring then having as much technological assistance as possible is useful. If it's having fun at dawn on Sunday on a British b-road then a big supercar has never been the most appropriate tool. Small, light and simple is more fitting.

I like having fun on the roads and doing a few track days. As such "supercars" have never really appealed from an ownership point of view (even if I could afford one). Taking a step down the ladder to sports cars, it's inevitable that there will be "trickle down" of technology from the halo models to more attainable cars over time. That's probably a good thing for the balance sheets of the manufacturers and as long as I'm still allowed to choose cars like the Caterham I don't mind.

[hornetrider]

Super proficient does not always equal fun to drive as they are designed to be stable at the limit. Ultimate speed whilst being a valid goal for an aspiring supercar, does not necessarily deliver driving enjoyment.
















MX-5

[PH lurker]

If I was in a position to purchase a 'supercar', I'd probably choose something refined like an XKR; then for driving trills look to a Caterham 7, perhaps a superlight, and a couple of classics.

All that I've recently read seems to point out that many of the current crop of supercars are marvellous feats of engineering, yet are very civilised, with ample grip and even DSG gearboxes etc. I would by no means turn down a free Gallardo however driver involvement and excitement seems lacking in many current supercars according to magazines I've read. Not that it affects me unfortunately.

I wonder what a new TVR would be like now.

[Streetrod]

Pork said:

Yes.

I've thought it for a while, but simple motoring can be far more enjoyable. I've driven/owned all sorts from all sorts of manufacturers - Lamborghini, Ferrari, Maserati, Porsche, M-Power cars...all sorts....and yet, some of the best smiles I have had have been in things like a 1987 Golf GTi which cost £600. Ah, how I miss that little golf...

Me too. One of my all time great drives was an early morning blast on some empty Surrey B roads in a Lotus Elan with about 100bhp. I had a smile on my face that lasted a week

[Mr Will]

Would a Countach really have been any better on a twisty B road? A Diablo? Even a Murciélago?

These are supercars, not sports cars. The real big boys have always been about the open road. To get twisty road excellence you need to take a step down the food chain to a Gallardo/458/911 RS/etc.

[Bonefish Blues]

hornetrider said:

Super proficient does not always equal fun to drive as they are designed to be stable at the limit. Ultimate speed whilst being a valid goal for an aspiring supercar, does not necessarily deliver driving enjoyment.

MX-5

You speak truly.

I've never had a drive in anything faster than my old RB320, but even that was just too damn good for most roads, whereas the MX5's a hoot just about everywhere.

[Rawwr]

If a car doesn't pose a very real threat to my mortality when driving it, I'm not interested

[rhinochopig]

Interesting discussion. I have come to the conclusion that my next weekend car should be a classic that I can tinker with - perhaps with the aim of uprating the brakes and some minor engine work, but with skinny tyres so I can enjoy b roads at sane and sensible speeds.

The most fun I've ever seen anyone have at a TD, by a long shot, was an old guy in a classic Morgan at Donnington a few years back. He was one of the slowest cars on the track that day, but craners for him was just one long slow and controlled drift. He was laughing his head off every lap.

[marcosgt]

Rawwr said:

If a car doesn't pose a very real threat to my mortality when driving it, I'm not interested

So how does the Mondeo fit in?

I'm sure 99.9999% of people (even here) would find the 458, Adventcalendar or any other super car awesome to drive, but they're mostly rather huge and not really very usable on B roads where something like an MX5, Elise or maybe a 911 could really be made to hustle.

On the other hand, whilst Dario might be able to get the most out of an F40, I suspect that same 99.9999% would be faster A-B in a 458.

If anyone cares to make available a selection of today's supercars and some top 80s ones I'm quite happy to take a day off work to pop along and compare them and then make my findings available

I'd love an F40, but I can't think of a single current supercar I'd actually WANT to own. If I won the lottery, I'd stick an F40 in my garage for fun and get something like a BMW M3 or a Maserati Gran Turismo.


M.

Edited by marcosgt on Thursday 19th May 11:54

[Twincam16]

greeneggsnsam said:

There will always be a market for a proper driver's car. Aeriel, Noble, TVR, Caterham, Lotus, etc etc will all continue to make their specialist cars (and with Lotus now trying to compete with the like of Aston Martin, another driver's car co., there will surely be some brilliant driver's supercars).

Yes - and I think Ginetta will take a chunk of the market too once Lotus 'upgrades' itself.

[BarnatosGhost]

Yes, just as modern racquets have spoilt tennis, and modern balls and drivers haven't helped golf, technology (and especially tyres and DSC-type technology) is spoiling driving.

The pace of a modern hot hatch across country is phenomenal, without breaking sweat, and the resulting crashes are enormous. To feel 'involved' you have to be going like the clappers, but whilst cars have got so much faster, hedgerows haven't got any lower, and tractors haven't got any lighter, so visibility and margins of safety have got worse.

[Rawwr]

marcosgt said:

So how does the Mondeo fit in?

Knackered wheel-bearings

The Mondeo is a white good, the Fireblade was the toy

[Streetrod]

marcosgt said:

On the other hand, whilst Dario might be able to get the most out of an F40, I suspect that same 99.9999% would be faster A-B in a 458.

Edited by marcosgt on Thursday 19th May 11:54

Yeah! but would they be having as much fun, or would the guy in his Elise stuck to his bumper have the bigger smile

[slipstream 1985]

Mr Will said:

Would a Countach really have been any better on a twisty B road? A Diablo? Even a Murciélago?

These are supercars, not sports cars. The real big boys have always been about the open road. To get twisty road excellence you need to take a step down the food chain to a Gallardo/458/911 RS/etc.

the speeds of each class of car have now exceeded the drivers ability. 15-20 years ago a family car with 100 bbhp. a sports car with 200-250 odd bhp and supercars with 300-400, now family cars have 150-200 sports cars are 250-350-400 bhp and supercars are anything above. the technology and performance has moved on at a much faster rate than the human brains ability to comprehend the physics and reactions needed to fully utalise a cars ability.