RE: SOTW: Porsche 944
Discussion
MJK 24 said:
Why do people put a lot of emphasis on rust problems on Porsche of this era? In this period, to the best of my knowledge, only Porsche and Audi were fully galvanising their cars. The first Audi being the 80/90 of 1986.
Now, galvanised Audi's of this era suffer from zero tinworm. Why should it be such a concern with Porsche? Did Porsche do a less through job or does a Porsche with a rust problem have a chequered past? We ran our Audi's to well over 200k miles in each case and bodywork maintenance was being hand washed with washing up liquid every six weeks. We never had so much as a blister. The idea of a holed sill would be alien. I just don't see why a Porsche wouldn't enjoy similar longevity!
They have a habit of rusting away from the inside of the sills out due to water collecting in there. This is a particularly bad example but shows how bad it gets. Bear in mind that the seat belt mounting point and one of the rear axle mounts are attached to the inner sill.Now, galvanised Audi's of this era suffer from zero tinworm. Why should it be such a concern with Porsche? Did Porsche do a less through job or does a Porsche with a rust problem have a chequered past? We ran our Audi's to well over 200k miles in each case and bodywork maintenance was being hand washed with washing up liquid every six weeks. We never had so much as a blister. The idea of a holed sill would be alien. I just don't see why a Porsche wouldn't enjoy similar longevity!
http://www.pbase.com/tr7v8/porsche_repair_pics
I run an '88 944 Turbo as a daily driver and have done over 18k miles in 2 years, mine has 212,500 miles on it now.
I bought it for £2,600 as a joke station car when i turned 40, not quite shed money but not far off.
It still goes like greased weasel sh*t, doesn't burn oil (although she is a little incontinent), returns 27mpg on a long drive and puts a big cheesy grin on my face every time I drive her.
I have spent £2,900 in the past 2 years, but a big chunk of that were belts, water Pump and Sills which sets you up for a few years.
In terms of parts, yes some are expensive, but there is a huge secondhand supply, and a lot of the usual pain points are dead cheap. My Tyres are £110 each (17" Falken 452s) my brake pads cost £25 per end for Mintex and take 20 mins to change once the wheels are off, services are £99/£199 at my local indy for interim/full.
Yes a MkII Golf might be quicker in a straight line than a 2.5 NA 944, but the difference will be seen when you reach a corner, it takes a while to learn how to get the best from a 944, just like any other Porsche, but when you do and you hook up your first series of corners on a twisty B road, you realise how well she will dance for you....
I bought it for £2,600 as a joke station car when i turned 40, not quite shed money but not far off.
It still goes like greased weasel sh*t, doesn't burn oil (although she is a little incontinent), returns 27mpg on a long drive and puts a big cheesy grin on my face every time I drive her.
I have spent £2,900 in the past 2 years, but a big chunk of that were belts, water Pump and Sills which sets you up for a few years.
In terms of parts, yes some are expensive, but there is a huge secondhand supply, and a lot of the usual pain points are dead cheap. My Tyres are £110 each (17" Falken 452s) my brake pads cost £25 per end for Mintex and take 20 mins to change once the wheels are off, services are £99/£199 at my local indy for interim/full.
Yes a MkII Golf might be quicker in a straight line than a 2.5 NA 944, but the difference will be seen when you reach a corner, it takes a while to learn how to get the best from a 944, just like any other Porsche, but when you do and you hook up your first series of corners on a twisty B road, you realise how well she will dance for you....
Edited by Fat Albert on Friday 20th May 11:31
MJK 24 said:
Why do people put a lot of emphasis on rust problems on Porsche of this era? In this period, to the best of my knowledge, only Porsche and Audi were fully galvanising their cars. The first Audi being the 80/90 of 1986.
Now, galvanised Audi's of this era suffer from zero tinworm. Why should it be such a concern with Porsche? Did Porsche do a less through job or does a Porsche with a rust problem have a chequered past? We ran our Audi's to well over 200k miles in each case and bodywork maintenance was being hand washed with washing up liquid every six weeks. We never had so much as a blister. The idea of a holed sill would be alien. I just don't see why a Porsche wouldn't enjoy similar longevity!
The Porsche has a poor bit of design which means it collects watter in the sills and between the inner and outer panels in the rear. Plus crap gets trapped in the back of the front arches which isn't good if you don't clean it out from time to time. Eventually by this age the rust eats its way out from the inside if the car has spent a lot of time sitting (which most Porsches do). However if you drive the car, air blows through the sills and dries them out so they dont rust. Simples. Now, galvanised Audi's of this era suffer from zero tinworm. Why should it be such a concern with Porsche? Did Porsche do a less through job or does a Porsche with a rust problem have a chequered past? We ran our Audi's to well over 200k miles in each case and bodywork maintenance was being hand washed with washing up liquid every six weeks. We never had so much as a blister. The idea of a holed sill would be alien. I just don't see why a Porsche wouldn't enjoy similar longevity!
These cars are hugely mechanically tough. So if you find a car with a high mileage that's been used and loved (200k or more) I guarantee it'll be in better condition than a low mileage car that's been sat for long periods. Best car I've seen for bodywork that hasn't been repaired has 215,000miles on it.
SOMEONE PLEASE BUY THIS SOTW
STOP MOANING ABOUT IT! It's £1k for f
k sake - not £10k.
It looks alot cleaner than what you would expect for that sort of money.
Take a gamble - I did a few months ago, and bought that E30 325i Track Car. I haven't spent a penny on any maintenance, and it is running as sweet as a nut. Never skipped a beat, and I drove it over 120 miles back to my house, grinning from ear-to-ear.
Like most people have said, drive it until the MOT expires (it might even pass, as long as all the usual bits are sorted). Then break it. Although, it does look too clean to break.
80s Glamour, Retro Cool Body Lines, RWD, Solid Build Quality and a Porsche badge for under £k? Has to be one of the best SOTW in ages.
If I hadn't bought that E30, I would snap this up right away.
It's all well and good speculating, but sometimes it's good to put your money where your mouth is, take a punt, and who knows, you might even be pleasantly surprised!
STOP MOANING ABOUT IT! It's £1k for f
k sake - not £10k.It looks alot cleaner than what you would expect for that sort of money.
Take a gamble - I did a few months ago, and bought that E30 325i Track Car. I haven't spent a penny on any maintenance, and it is running as sweet as a nut. Never skipped a beat, and I drove it over 120 miles back to my house, grinning from ear-to-ear.
Like most people have said, drive it until the MOT expires (it might even pass, as long as all the usual bits are sorted). Then break it. Although, it does look too clean to break.
80s Glamour, Retro Cool Body Lines, RWD, Solid Build Quality and a Porsche badge for under £k? Has to be one of the best SOTW in ages.
If I hadn't bought that E30, I would snap this up right away.
It's all well and good speculating, but sometimes it's good to put your money where your mouth is, take a punt, and who knows, you might even be pleasantly surprised!
MadRob6 said:
MJK 24 said:
Why do people put a lot of emphasis on rust problems on Porsche of this era? In this period, to the best of my knowledge, only Porsche and Audi were fully galvanising their cars. The first Audi being the 80/90 of 1986.
Now, galvanised Audi's of this era suffer from zero tinworm. Why should it be such a concern with Porsche? Did Porsche do a less through job or does a Porsche with a rust problem have a chequered past? We ran our Audi's to well over 200k miles in each case and bodywork maintenance was being hand washed with washing up liquid every six weeks. We never had so much as a blister. The idea of a holed sill would be alien. I just don't see why a Porsche wouldn't enjoy similar longevity!
They have a habit of rusting away from the inside of the sills out due to water collecting in there. This is a particularly bad example but shows how bad it gets. Bear in mind that the seat belt mounting point and one of the rear axle mounts are attached to the inner sill.Now, galvanised Audi's of this era suffer from zero tinworm. Why should it be such a concern with Porsche? Did Porsche do a less through job or does a Porsche with a rust problem have a chequered past? We ran our Audi's to well over 200k miles in each case and bodywork maintenance was being hand washed with washing up liquid every six weeks. We never had so much as a blister. The idea of a holed sill would be alien. I just don't see why a Porsche wouldn't enjoy similar longevity!
http://www.pbase.com/tr7v8/porsche_repair_pics
The major issue is a little ledge in front of the back arch which collects crap & then allows it to munch its way through. Bare in mind mine had lived in scotland near the coast though which made it much worse! The bill for the sills alone was £1400 & my wife reminds me of it regularly
Tomoose85 said:
I think I'd have a punt if I had somewhere to keep it.
Thats the picture that would worry me!!!
I doubt that puddle came from the car. There's nothing in that area to leak other than brake and fuel lines and you'd soon know if they were leaking.Thats the picture that would worry me!!!
If the sills are good I reckon it's a cracking buy. I'm guessing the knocking noise at the back is a CV Joint rather than anything too serious (clutch is in the front attached to the engine not the gearbox which is in the back).
Niffty951 said:
Just to clarify this. No the 2.5 8v isn't that fast (I used to get blown away by faster BMW 6 cylinders 328s etc not even M's) but when I were a lad at 17 I had one of these with 166k miles on the clock that was probably about the worst condition it could have been for its age at the time. A friend of mine had an IMMACULATE low mileage Mk2 8v GTi running a few tasteful mods. We were both sure it would be quicker than my 944 but we raced many times and I was just faster everywhere. I could get 2-3 car lengths from a standing start by the end of first because of the longer gears meaning he had to change into 2nd while I was right in the rev band and after that the torque of the 2.5 just pulled away easily at any speed.
Either there's something seriously wrong with that lux, your golf quicker than you think or the guy isn't driving that 944 properly.
Oh and besises a clutch and diff (done when the diff failed) plus a radiator which cost about £100 my 944 lux was pretty cheap to run in the 12 months I had it and I THRASHED the arse out of it! Brilliant fun on roundabouts, almost better to drift than any other 944 model because of the immediate throttle response, low grip, lighter weight and lack of understeer designed in to the later models.
Possibly, we had a few meetings and there wasnt a lot on it, wasnt from a standing start, roll ons from 30/40 to higher, though not that high speeds, I suppose it may have been an auto, or knackered ! the Golf was indeed the best of the one I had, being that we had it from new and it got looked after, always seemed to punch above its weight, though picking on a Diablo that time was probably a bit of a stretch Either there's something seriously wrong with that lux, your golf quicker than you think or the guy isn't driving that 944 properly.
Oh and besises a clutch and diff (done when the diff failed) plus a radiator which cost about £100 my 944 lux was pretty cheap to run in the 12 months I had it and I THRASHED the arse out of it! Brilliant fun on roundabouts, almost better to drift than any other 944 model because of the immediate throttle response, low grip, lighter weight and lack of understeer designed in to the later models.
but superb fun, not a race if the other participant has to wait for you to catch up !944 is still on my list of cars I want to own, but I think, really it would have to be a turbo nowadays.
I did drive one as an 18 year old, worked for a car dealer and conned him into buying an ex lease D reg one instead of his usual bread and butter dirge, let me borrow it for an afternoon, enjoyed it but wasnt overawed with the performance, was especially dissapointed witht he fact that no matter how much I tried nobody I knew saw me, yet every time I wearily put my carcass in a Metro or other motorised expression of poverty and desperation I would see long lost friends from everywhere !
The dealer ended up stuck with the 944 for months and lost a fair wedge when he eventually traded it on, he enjoyed it and with further mithering and suggestion from me bought a 928 S4, flippin eck that thing shifted, that was what I niavely expected from the 944, he didnt lend me that one for some reason.... anyway, he was enjoying it a bit too much and got himself a short ban, sold it and vowed to stick to Cavaliers and Sierras.
Hahaha to the person who says they don't rot - they rot from the inside out, they ALL look fairly decent from the outside! If you don't know how to propely check for rot - forget a 944!
LOL I wouldn't touch a £1000 944 with a barge pole. Sills are £1200 per side ... more than what you pay for the car! Fine if your going to run it for three months and sell it again or use it as a parts chaser.
...but if anyones under the illusion that car is going to be any good they must be mad!
Yet another thing to devalue the 944, with added moaning about the 2.5, the car was a quick car in 1982 when it was produced. 944's shouldn't feel really slow but the later cars do feel less sporting. Considering my BGT V8 only produced 137bhp from factory, 160 out of a four pot isn't bad at all, the public are just used to silly rep mobiles producing in the region of 200bhp from a 2.0litre four pot and I'd still take all of my old cars anyday of the week over a faster new car!
944's in good condition are great to drive but get a bad one and you really won't see what all the fuss is about. I suggest to anyone looking at a cheap 944 - go and try one THEN go and try a well sorted example and then come back and try to justify "they're the same car", I promised you they will not feel anywhere near similar.
LOL I wouldn't touch a £1000 944 with a barge pole. Sills are £1200 per side ... more than what you pay for the car! Fine if your going to run it for three months and sell it again or use it as a parts chaser.
...but if anyones under the illusion that car is going to be any good they must be mad!
Yet another thing to devalue the 944, with added moaning about the 2.5, the car was a quick car in 1982 when it was produced. 944's shouldn't feel really slow but the later cars do feel less sporting. Considering my BGT V8 only produced 137bhp from factory, 160 out of a four pot isn't bad at all, the public are just used to silly rep mobiles producing in the region of 200bhp from a 2.0litre four pot and I'd still take all of my old cars anyday of the week over a faster new car!
944's in good condition are great to drive but get a bad one and you really won't see what all the fuss is about. I suggest to anyone looking at a cheap 944 - go and try one THEN go and try a well sorted example and then come back and try to justify "they're the same car", I promised you they will not feel anywhere near similar.
MJK24, 944s can corrode along the cills. The galvanisation makes little difference. Some other cars that were galvanised when new also rot.
Look on the forums, even the later S2s can get flaky cills.
The PPC magazine piece on buying used 924 Turbos said the 924s rust less along the cills than 944s do.
The only Audi I know from that era are 100 C3s, they were galvanised and only suffered rust high up around the bodywork around window frames or where they'd been scraped on the scenery.
I'm sorry I can't see past the cliches in the advert (best colour, lost service history). Someone buys car gets it home then decides to sell it. I think in most cases the buyer has found they've got a lemon and want rid, or they're people buying and selling cars to make money.
Look on the forums, even the later S2s can get flaky cills.
The PPC magazine piece on buying used 924 Turbos said the 924s rust less along the cills than 944s do.
The only Audi I know from that era are 100 C3s, they were galvanised and only suffered rust high up around the bodywork around window frames or where they'd been scraped on the scenery.
I'm sorry I can't see past the cliches in the advert (best colour, lost service history). Someone buys car gets it home then decides to sell it. I think in most cases the buyer has found they've got a lemon and want rid, or they're people buying and selling cars to make money.
I assumed the 400 mile drive referred to going to collect it and then sell on. I made an assumption. I made a mistake.
The vendor has had it for 18 months.
Look at the money Garlick spent getting his S2 right. I think any £1K ish 944 may well need some fettling to handle at their best?
The vendor has had it for 18 months.
Look at the money Garlick spent getting his S2 right. I think any £1K ish 944 may well need some fettling to handle at their best?
SOTW is remarkably similar to my first Porsche, a 1986 944 lux, purchased from ebay without viewing for £2200 in 2005. Mine had the more subtle dark brown interior!
Purchased from a trade seller, I took a gamble on the lack of history as the previous keeper had owned the car for 14 years. I guessed that nobody would have a 944 that long and not look after it. One polite letter to the address on the V5 later and I received an almighty parcel containing 15 or so MOT certificates and £000s of bills! It had been owned by an enthusiast, used as a second car and garaged - he had kept the history because the garage never asked for it when he part exchanged it!
Was remarkably problem free as I put around 15k miles on it over a year or so before its sad demise on the M53 when hit whilst stationary in a traffic jam. They handle very well indeed and you somehow get the last laugh when people get all excited about you having a Porsche and assume it has cost a fortune. It attracted more (positive) attention than my 996 ever did too! Surprisingly practical too.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1983-PORSCHE-944-CAJUN-RED-G...
Looks like a non-sunroof model. No MoT for the almost £1K.
Looks like a non-sunroof model. No MoT for the almost £1K.
As people have said, buy it and if it fails MOT just break it, those teledial wheels are worth around £400 surely? fairly sought after in the Euro VAG scene.
I'd have on myself for a grand but a quick insurance quote from go compare quickly kills that dream...£3800... oh the joys of being 21 in a crap post code.
I'd have on myself for a grand but a quick insurance quote from go compare quickly kills that dream...£3800... oh the joys of being 21 in a crap post code.
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