Definition of a hot hatch?
Discussion
kambites said:
Yes it will, but you'd be mad to pick a 3-door Civic if that was your primary requirement. I must admit I've never "got" three door hatches - they rarely drive appreciably better, it just seems like the epitome of form over function to me.
The Type-R only comes with three doors. And yes, five door hatches often look frumpy by comparison. If you buy a hatchback because you need the luggage space and occasionally to carry rear passengers, the number of doors is largely irrelevant.Actually, I can think of one practical reason for choosing the three door - the door aperture is absolutely massive, much larger than a five door car has. I remember loading a circular glass topped patio table into it and being amazed that we got it in - it would not fit in through the tailgate, but it would go in through the passenger door with the front seats tipped forwards. Niche, I grant you
IMO a hot hatch needs to be FWD.
Therefore no beemers, no ford cosworths, no 4wd integrales.
Should also preferably have a proper hatch, IE not be saloon car shaped - although this is a little harder to define. The Rovers above are not hot hatches, but an Integra Tyre R certainly is.
Shouldn't look like a saloon car, basically!
Therefore no beemers, no ford cosworths, no 4wd integrales.
Should also preferably have a proper hatch, IE not be saloon car shaped - although this is a little harder to define. The Rovers above are not hot hatches, but an Integra Tyre R certainly is.
Shouldn't look like a saloon car, basically!
otolith said:
kambites said:
Yes it will, but you'd be mad to pick a 3-door Civic if that was your primary requirement. I must admit I've never "got" three door hatches - they rarely drive appreciably better, it just seems like the epitome of form over function to me.
The Type-R only comes with three doors. And yes, five door hatches often look frumpy by comparison. If you buy a hatchback because you need the luggage space and occasionally to carry rear passengers, the number of doors is largely irrelevant.Actually, I can think of one practical reason for choosing the three door - the door aperture is absolutely massive, much larger than a five door car has. I remember loading a circular glass topped patio table into it and being amazed that we got it in - it would not fit in through the tailgate, but it would go in through the passenger door with the front seats tipped forwards. Niche, I grant you
3 door
5 door..
kambites said:
Yes it will, but you'd be mad to pick a 3-door Civic if that was your primary requirement. I must admit I've never "got" three door hatches - they rarely drive appreciably better, it just seems like the epitome of form over function to me.
I cannot bear 4 door hatchbacks, the three doors look so much better.I've never felt the need for extra doors and i've only ever owned 3 door cars, maybe if I had a family that would be different but it's not 'form over function' for me it's 'good looking over crap looking'!
Hot Hatch - "Basic 3 or 5 door FWD hatchback - also available in low trim/engine spec at a low price point - with bigger/more powerful engine and factory fitted modifications to improve handling delivering performance considered quick at the time. Changes to the roofline over basic hatchback design exclude it"
Contentious? Discuss (or ignore, it's up to you
)
Most cars described here as hot hatches that don't fit my definition (well, that I can think of!) are Rally homologation specials or pretty close.
M.
PS Volvo 360 - Hot Hatch..? Nah...
Contentious? Discuss (or ignore, it's up to you
)earlier said:
Should also preferably have a proper hatch, IE not be saloon car shaped - although this is a little harder to define. The Rovers above are not hot hatches, but an Integra Tyre R certainly is.
Oops - correction to what I originally wrote! The Integra Type R is actually NOT a hot hatch, but a FWD coupe and the Rover 400 hatch (kind of) is a Hot Hatch. In the early 90s, the 216GTi was a hot hatch in 3 door form, but not in Tomcat form (when it was a coupe).Most cars described here as hot hatches that don't fit my definition (well, that I can think of!) are Rally homologation specials or pretty close.
M.
PS Volvo 360 - Hot Hatch..? Nah...
Edited by marcosgt on Friday 3rd June 17:03
300bhp/ton said:
SteveS Cup said:
I don't understand why this is such a difficult answer to reach but imo...
A hot hatch is something that is "nippy", fun and practical.
A bit like a classic Mini (that has no hatch A hot hatch is something that is "nippy", fun and practical.
) or even an MX-5 if you only need 2 seats.... arguably if there is only a seating requirement for 1-2 people, then a 2 seater is far more practical as it actually fulfills the role better.
king a MX5 is a hot hatch or a substitute for one! Can we have one single thread on this site without someone trying to justify the fking things.I for one mostly travel alone but when I do travel with passengers it is usually more than 1 or it's 2 people + 2 mountain bikes and associated equipment. I find that having a boot which can take fairly large items easily is very useful without having to drive a tank which is barely utilised the majority of the time. Most HH are easily fast enough to cope with modern traffic and be fun, yet also will return 30+ MPG which seems to be a fine balance between performance an economy.
It would be all to easy to say a hot hatch is a jack of all trades master of none but that is far to harsh, I'd argue I get 90% of what I require from any car from 1 hot hatch, it doesn't try too hard to be anything specific, instead it does nearly everything you could ever want well enough to make them excellent all rounders which for the majority of people who have 1 car makes plenty of sense!
dave
I'll try and define hatchback here:
Hatchback
Coupe
Hatchback
Coupe
Hatchback
Hatchback
Estate
Coupe
Hatchback (but not far off a coupe)
This is a bit of an odd one to the rule, it could easily be either
Hatchback
Hatchback
Again, Hatchback (but not far off a coupe)
Coupe
Hot hatch:
If it's a hatchback, and is quick when compared to other hatchbacks
- 3 or 5 door car including a rear door as a hatch (door is hinged at top, near the roofline).
- The rear part of the roof line, before it stops dropping away needs to be in the same area of the rear wheel arch. If this point is further forward it is a coupe, if it is further to the rear then it is an estate:
Hatchback
Coupe
Hatchback
Coupe
Hatchback
Hatchback
Estate
Coupe
Hatchback (but not far off a coupe)
This is a bit of an odd one to the rule, it could easily be either
Hatchback
Hatchback
Again, Hatchback (but not far off a coupe)
Coupe
Hot hatch:
If it's a hatchback, and is quick when compared to other hatchbacks
kambites said:
So I think the gist of all this, is that everyone has a different definition. Which isn't surprising really, I suppose.
I think we all really know what a hot hatch is as summed up by the golf GTI it's just on PH people like to make things difficult for the sake of arguing. I bet my mum could give a better description of a hot hatch an she usually identifies cars by colour an size.
dave
aka_kerrly said:
I think we all really know what a hot hatch is as summed up by the golf GTI it's just on PH people like to make things difficult for the sake of arguing.
I bet my mum could give a better description of a hot hatch an she usually identifies cars by colour an size.
dave
your mum's called dave?I bet my mum could give a better description of a hot hatch an she usually identifies cars by colour an size.
dave
aka_kerrly said:
Il bite, no one with a ounce of knowledge about cars or even someone with no knowledge at all would try and convince anyone a fking a MX5 is a hot hatch or a substitute for one! Can we have one single thread on this site without someone trying to justify the fking things.
I for one mostly travel alone but when I do travel with passengers it is usually more than 1 or it's 2 people + 2 mountain bikes and associated equipment. I find that having a boot which can take fairly large items easily is very useful without having to drive a tank which is barely utilised the majority of the time. Most HH are easily fast enough to cope with modern traffic and be fun, yet also will return 30+ MPG which seems to be a fine balance between performance an economy.
It would be all to easy to say a hot hatch is a jack of all trades master of none but that is far to harsh, I'd argue I get 90% of what I require from any car from 1 hot hatch, it doesn't try too hard to be anything specific, instead it does nearly everything you could ever want well enough to make them excellent all rounders which for the majority of people who have 1 car makes plenty of sense!
dave
Hi Dave. I wasn't for one second trying to claim an MX5 as a hatch. Just a vehicle that fitted the definition being given. The MX5 was to illustrate the definition was flawed and didn't work. king a MX5 is a hot hatch or a substitute for one! Can we have one single thread on this site without someone trying to justify the fking things.I for one mostly travel alone but when I do travel with passengers it is usually more than 1 or it's 2 people + 2 mountain bikes and associated equipment. I find that having a boot which can take fairly large items easily is very useful without having to drive a tank which is barely utilised the majority of the time. Most HH are easily fast enough to cope with modern traffic and be fun, yet also will return 30+ MPG which seems to be a fine balance between performance an economy.
It would be all to easy to say a hot hatch is a jack of all trades master of none but that is far to harsh, I'd argue I get 90% of what I require from any car from 1 hot hatch, it doesn't try too hard to be anything specific, instead it does nearly everything you could ever want well enough to make them excellent all rounders which for the majority of people who have 1 car makes plenty of sense!
dave
aka_kerrly said:
kambites said:
So I think the gist of all this, is that everyone has a different definition. Which isn't surprising really, I suppose.
I think we all really know what a hot hatch is as summed up by the golf GTI it's just on PH people like to make things difficult for the sake of arguing. I bet my mum could give a better description of a hot hatch an she usually identifies cars by colour an size.
dave
300bhp/ton said:
aka_kerrly said:
kambites said:
So I think the gist of all this, is that everyone has a different definition. Which isn't surprising really, I suppose.
I think we all really know what a hot hatch is as summed up by the golf GTI it's just on PH people like to make things difficult for the sake of arguing. I bet my mum could give a better description of a hot hatch an she usually identifies cars by colour an size.
dave
Credit to the Lotus Sunbeam it had the essential ingredients of a hot hatch but it wasn't a mass market model which defined it as a hot hatch as the lotus model was quite the rarity? You have to give credit to VW engineers or maybe more so marketing department for developing the concept of a hot hatch and selling it to the masses as a "relatively" low cost way of getting access to far more performance for your buck than you would expect in a small family car package.
wombat172a said:
I'll try and define hatchback here:
I agree with that. Hot hatches tend to be more upright (for want of a better word) cars with more power than lesser models. The hatch should have a 45 ish degree angle. Too sloping a hatch = coupe, too upright = estate- 3 or 5 door car including a rear door as a hatch (door is hinged at top, near the roofline).
- The rear part of the roof line, before it stops dropping away needs to be in the same area of the rear wheel arch. If this point is further forward it is a coupe, if it is further to the rear then it is an estate:
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