Company car private fuel dilemma...
Discussion
I have a company car provided to me, a diesel. All my private use fuel (unlimited) is provided as part of my terms, therefore I pay the benefit in kind for this fuel. I have a company credit card for which I simply fill the car up whenever and they pick up the tab. Because I'm taxed on the private fuel I don't submit monthly mileage returns.
Problem is the company car is a dog and I just don't do any private miles in it. I always use my own car which just happens to be petrol, not diesel. I only do a couple of tankfuls a month private miles at the most, usually less.
Dilemma is should I simply consider that private fuel is private fuel and it doesn't matter which car I use (after all it's costing the company less as there's no wear and tear or miles being put on their car) or should I ask them? I'd feel really guilty about putting fuel in my own car rather than theirs for some reason, it just doesn't feel right. Trouble is, if ask they might say no!
Should I just do it? Am I worrying unnecessarily?
Opinions appreciated..
Problem is the company car is a dog and I just don't do any private miles in it. I always use my own car which just happens to be petrol, not diesel. I only do a couple of tankfuls a month private miles at the most, usually less.
Dilemma is should I simply consider that private fuel is private fuel and it doesn't matter which car I use (after all it's costing the company less as there's no wear and tear or miles being put on their car) or should I ask them? I'd feel really guilty about putting fuel in my own car rather than theirs for some reason, it just doesn't feel right. Trouble is, if ask they might say no!
Should I just do it? Am I worrying unnecessarily?
Opinions appreciated..
If you do reasonably few personal miles, you could do what I do which is pay for all fuel myself, and then claim back business miles with my month end expenses.
The reimbursement per mile is calculated from an agreed MPG and the current price per litre of fuel.
Would probably pay you to sit down and work out the real cost in terms of the BIK you pay versus the private miles you cover.
The reimbursement per mile is calculated from an agreed MPG and the current price per litre of fuel.
Would probably pay you to sit down and work out the real cost in terms of the BIK you pay versus the private miles you cover.
The BIK tax is there for your private use of your company vehicle. That you choose not to use it and instead drive another car that you own is not your employer's concern. It is available for your use, should you wish to, that's what you're taxed on the basis of.
Using the company fuel card to put fuel in a private vehicle is often considered gross misconduct by employers and has seen one person summarily dismissed this year from our company.
I wouldn't do it without asking the question of your employer to be on the safe-side. They may say it's fine, in which case fair enough, but if they say no, then be thankful that you haven't inadvertently run the risk of getting yourself entirely unecessarily sacked if you were to get found out (even if you thought you were acting reasonably). With a diesel company car, the petrol going in would eventually be picked up by whoever reconciles the fuel card accounts when the statements come in each month.
Next time around, choose a company car that you actually like to drive in your spare time, even if it means you'll pay more in taxes, you can then sell the private car and do away with the running costs that entails to mitigate the increased tax burden.
Using the company fuel card to put fuel in a private vehicle is often considered gross misconduct by employers and has seen one person summarily dismissed this year from our company.
I wouldn't do it without asking the question of your employer to be on the safe-side. They may say it's fine, in which case fair enough, but if they say no, then be thankful that you haven't inadvertently run the risk of getting yourself entirely unecessarily sacked if you were to get found out (even if you thought you were acting reasonably). With a diesel company car, the petrol going in would eventually be picked up by whoever reconciles the fuel card accounts when the statements come in each month.
Next time around, choose a company car that you actually like to drive in your spare time, even if it means you'll pay more in taxes, you can then sell the private car and do away with the running costs that entails to mitigate the increased tax burden.
Edited by Zwoelf on Monday 6th June 12:04
minghis said:
Should I just do it?
Only if you're certain you won't get sacked.In a previous firm I worked for we didn't have any choice to opt out of fuel, and in fact the company deducted a fixed sum for private use of the vehicle, although this was deducted from the car's BIK tax.
The consequence of deducting the fixed sum was everyone one felt they were "entitled" to take at least that value of fuel, so they did. Mileages weren't recorded and we didn't have to give them in when buying fuel. My wife's car doesn't do a lot of miles but I never paid for fuel for her car the whole time I worked there. If she was going any distance for some reason, then she'd take my car and I'd arrange to work at home that day.
We used to get huffy memos about it now and again, but it was the sort of outfit were they'd think there was something wrong with you is you didn't push the envelope on expenses.
Either leave the car at work or pay the BIK tax. What you do with your own personal vehicle is nothing to do with it. The fuel is not your 'right' to have it is just a tax situation with the company car and only the company car which has to be declared one way or the other. If you feel you have a right to extra money instead of putting more miles on your company car then speak to your employer about a pay rise. (all said in a slightly nicer way than it sounded 
)
)In your position I would do the following / this is what I did.
Get rid of the free fuel - the tax is costing you a fortune if you are not using it.
Fill up on the company card as normal
Keep business mileage records and each month make a note of how many miles were 'private'
Agree a p/mile figure you will pay the company back for your private miles
Get rid of the free fuel - the tax is costing you a fortune if you are not using it.
Fill up on the company card as normal
Keep business mileage records and each month make a note of how many miles were 'private'
Agree a p/mile figure you will pay the company back for your private miles
All good stuff so far, cheers.
The company won't entertain anything other than the current situation, they won't allow me to 'opt out' of the free private fuel, mileage records or not. I don't have a specific fuel card (with the car details on it), it's a company credit card and it makes no real difference if I pay for my fuel on the card or pay for it with my own money then claim it back as cash expenses. The other guys (and gals) in the salesforce all use (so they tell me) plenty more private fuel than me so the comment about negotiating some extra pay as I don't use the fuel is a good one, I'll try that.
I had similar and tried to opt out but wasn't allowed to.
Luckily my co. car was a petrol so I simply filled up a couple of cans every time I fuelled up the Co. car.
I used to get printouts from the card provider with "ABUSE" stamped across them as a 1.6 appeared to be only doing low twenties mpg.
However I agree with the others buying petrol on a diesel card will get you sacked unless you get it confirmed in writing first - which I very much doubt you will get.
Luckily my co. car was a petrol so I simply filled up a couple of cans every time I fuelled up the Co. car.
I used to get printouts from the card provider with "ABUSE" stamped across them as a 1.6 appeared to be only doing low twenties mpg.
However I agree with the others buying petrol on a diesel card will get you sacked unless you get it confirmed in writing first - which I very much doubt you will get.
redgriff500 said:
Luckily my co. car was a petrol so I simply filled up a couple of cans every time I fuelled up the Co. car.
I used to get printouts from the card provider with "ABUSE" stamped across them as a 1.6 appeared to be only doing low twenties mpg.
You were lucky to get away with it. We had someone busted for that too. Company suspected the car was using a noticeable amount more fuel than it ought to for the miles it did. So they requested the CCTV footage of the dates and times of the last few fill-ups (from the receipts). Sure enough, employee filling up a jerry can in the boot each time (20l, not a little 5l jobbie)I used to get printouts from the card provider with "ABUSE" stamped across them as a 1.6 appeared to be only doing low twenties mpg.
Instantly sacked and deductions made from final pay to cover the amount that was calculated to have been stolen. Employee tried to argue the toss, company said, OK, we'll not make any deduction, we'll just hand over the evidence we have to Plod and prosecute you for theft. Nothing more was said as the chap knew he'd never work in the trade again with stealing from his employer on record.
Zwoelf said:
redgriff500 said:
Luckily my co. car was a petrol so I simply filled up a couple of cans every time I fuelled up the Co. car.
I used to get printouts from the card provider with "ABUSE" stamped across them as a 1.6 appeared to be only doing low twenties mpg.
You were lucky to get away with it. We had someone busted for that too. Company suspected the car was using a noticeable amount more fuel than it ought to for the miles it did. So they requested the CCTV footage of the dates and times of the last few fill-ups (from the receipts). Sure enough, employee filling up a jerry can in the boot each time (20l, not a little 5l jobbie)I used to get printouts from the card provider with "ABUSE" stamped across them as a 1.6 appeared to be only doing low twenties mpg.
Instantly sacked and deductions made from final pay to cover the amount that was calculated to have been stolen. Employee tried to argue the toss, company said, OK, we'll not make any deduction, we'll just hand over the evidence we have to Plod and prosecute you for theft. Nothing more was said as the chap knew he'd never work in the trade again with stealing from his employer on record.
I had been forced to have the Co. car after I made the mistake of replying to my MD...
Him "You have the oldest car on the car park"
Me "But it's also the fastest" (Starion Turbo)
Within 2 weeks I was forced to have a Rover 216 hence it was utterly abused - I got through the front tyres in 3500 miles.
Zwoelf said:
So they requested the CCTV footage of the dates and times of the last few fill-ups (from the receipts).
Hmmm...and the filling stations cheerfully handed it over?Zwoelf said:
Sure enough, employee filling up a jerry can in the boot each time (20l, not a little 5l jobbie)
That's a bit stupid. We used to get alerts when people bought more than the tank capacity. My village garage used to record all fuel sales as LPG - I used that to slag off how stupid the petrol card company where to flag it up if they didn't realise the LPG pricing was totally wrong (it should be under half the price of petrol/diesel).minghis said:
I have a company car provided to me, a diesel. All my private use fuel (unlimited) is provided as part of my terms, therefore I pay the benefit in kind for this fuel. I have a company credit card for which I simply fill the car up whenever and they pick up the tab. Because I'm taxed on the private fuel I don't submit monthly mileage returns.
Problem is the company car is a dog and I just don't do any private miles in it. I always use my own car which just happens to be petrol, not diesel. I only do a couple of tankfuls a month private miles at the most, usually less.
Dilemma is should I simply consider that private fuel is private fuel and it doesn't matter which car I use (after all it's costing the company less as there's no wear and tear or miles being put on their car) or should I ask them? I'd feel really guilty about putting fuel in my own car rather than theirs for some reason, it just doesn't feel right. Trouble is, if ask they might say no!
Should I just do it? Am I worrying unnecessarily?
Opinions appreciated..
I reckon most people have to pay for their own fuel... so they fact you'd only have to pay for a small amount I fail to see the real issue? Sure you might win more by cheating the system a little, but you're still doing rather better than most in terms of fuel costs.Problem is the company car is a dog and I just don't do any private miles in it. I always use my own car which just happens to be petrol, not diesel. I only do a couple of tankfuls a month private miles at the most, usually less.
Dilemma is should I simply consider that private fuel is private fuel and it doesn't matter which car I use (after all it's costing the company less as there's no wear and tear or miles being put on their car) or should I ask them? I'd feel really guilty about putting fuel in my own car rather than theirs for some reason, it just doesn't feel right. Trouble is, if ask they might say no!
Should I just do it? Am I worrying unnecessarily?
Opinions appreciated..
300bhp/ton said:
I reckon most people have to pay for their own fuel... so they fact you'd only have to pay for a small amount I fail to see the real issue? Sure you might win more by cheating the system a little, but you're still doing rather better than most in terms of fuel costs.
No you misunderstand - the Co. pay for his personal use fuel and he is taxed on that.BUT he has a better car for his personal use and feels a bit cheated that he is being taxed for a perk he isn't getting.
I think you need to weigh up which bothers you more:
Paying for fuel for you own car, which you like driving, or,
Driving around in a car you don't like, but that has free fuel
As others have said, if you get caught filling your own car up with the campany credit card, it's very likely that you won't have the dilema to worry about.
Count yourself lucky - I have to pay for the fuel for my company car and then claim back the company mileage - Which at current fuel rates, is about £500 of fuel a month as a minimum.
Paying for fuel for you own car, which you like driving, or,
Driving around in a car you don't like, but that has free fuel
As others have said, if you get caught filling your own car up with the campany credit card, it's very likely that you won't have the dilema to worry about.
Count yourself lucky - I have to pay for the fuel for my company car and then claim back the company mileage - Which at current fuel rates, is about £500 of fuel a month as a minimum.
Don't give up the "free fuel" as you pay tax perk, as once you opt out you probably won't be allowed to opt back in!
If you plan on staying at the company long term, you will end up with a better car eventually, but in the meantime, just try and use the co car more to justify the tax!
Depending on the car, I doubt you'd be paying more than £200 per month for the car and £200 per month for the fuel benefit, so just make sure you use at least a couple of tanks worth for private use!
If you use the co card for petrol, you'll be guaranteeing your P45.
If you plan on staying at the company long term, you will end up with a better car eventually, but in the meantime, just try and use the co car more to justify the tax!
Depending on the car, I doubt you'd be paying more than £200 per month for the car and £200 per month for the fuel benefit, so just make sure you use at least a couple of tanks worth for private use!
If you use the co card for petrol, you'll be guaranteeing your P45.
redgriff500 said:
300bhp/ton said:
I reckon most people have to pay for their own fuel... so they fact you'd only have to pay for a small amount I fail to see the real issue? Sure you might win more by cheating the system a little, but you're still doing rather better than most in terms of fuel costs.
No you misunderstand - the Co. pay for his personal use fuel and he is taxed on that.BUT he has a better car for his personal use and feels a bit cheated that he is being taxed for a perk he isn't getting.
And, if I get free fuel does it really matter which car I put it in as I'd be using it anyway, that's the point.
minghis said:
And, if I get free fuel does it really matter which car I put it in as I'd be using it anyway, that's the point.
Even if you were the only user of both cars, I presume your own petrol car does a heck of lot less MPG than your company diesel. So it will cost the company more for you to do the same mileage. And it makes the tax burden wrong as your own car will have a higher CO2 output.Also, you could just merrily fill up the cars of all and sundry. You could charge people for filling up their cars - how would it be limited? We had people who used immense amounts of private fuel.
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