I don't get Audis
Discussion
Are s-lines now set up by GMB, the folk who sorted the RS series? I'm sure I read that in autocar...
Anyway, I looked at an a5/a6, nice looking car. But, for my budget, my choice was 18 month old 12k 3.0tdi quattro a5, or brand new xf 3.0d. Personally, I went for the jag. The repeated thumping of VAG (and depending on the mag, BMW) in group tests was just an added bonus.
That said, I certainly 'get' my urS6. :-)
Anyway, I looked at an a5/a6, nice looking car. But, for my budget, my choice was 18 month old 12k 3.0tdi quattro a5, or brand new xf 3.0d. Personally, I went for the jag. The repeated thumping of VAG (and depending on the mag, BMW) in group tests was just an added bonus.
That said, I certainly 'get' my urS6. :-)
Baryonyx said:
Scuffers said:
back to Subaru, sorry, your just dreaming now, I don't have a need for a Kev's car, with HUGE turbo lag, shocking fuel consumption, service costs, and the best plastic interior Arfix can make - how you can criticize Audi's compared this is this just laughable...
Subaru don't make you pay a premium to sit in a black box full of soft touch plastics arranged in a boring fashion. But they do make an incredible driver's car, at a price point Audi can't even begin to dream of. That said, the new Subaru interiors are pretty high quality for a sporty Japanese car, shame the cars themselves aren't as good as they were. In any event, the Subaru will no doubt be far more fun and exciting but probably won't fit when you're dropping the kids off at school or going to the parent's coffee morning. I have owned Subaru's before (Leggacy 4 can turbo's), stopped buying them when I had to pay the running costs (as opposed to expensing them), yes, I am sure they have moved on, but they still have shocking fuel and service bills, and whilst they were good, dynamically, they are no better than the S4 (and arguably the A4 2.0TFSi Quattro).
Yes, I currently ponce round in an S4 (B8), (don't have kids and don't do coffee mornings!), so what Subaru are you thinking is a fair equivalent?
boobles said:
I can only assume that we are not understanding eachother.
I get the thread, I just don't get people slating something whilst owning something 10x worse.
Can you not have an opinion on a car just because you do not own a 'decent' motor yourself ? I get the thread, I just don't get people slating something whilst owning something 10x worse.
My cars are worth the sum total of 3/8 of bugger all and it would be fair to say inferior in pretty much every aspect, but I feel perfectly able to form a judgement on Audi vs BMW in the context of this thread.
boobles said:
I just don't get people slating something whilst owning something 10x worse.
Why? If you see an F1 driver owning and driving an MPV or a small hatchback, are you going to dismiss their opinion on how a car handles? I've seen what a lot of staff who work for Lotus development drive and it's not a pretty sight but I doubt I'd mock their opinions on how a car rides.Scuffers said:
back to Subaru, sorry, your just dreaming now, I don't have a need for a Kev's car, with HUGE turbo lag, shocking fuel consumption, service costs, and the best plastic interior Arfix can make - how you can criticize Audi's compared this is this just laughable...
Do Subarus have a big turbo lag problem? I have never heard of it in scoobs or evos, I thought they were pretty responsive on boost.Steameh said:
Do Subarus have a big turbo lag problem? I have never heard of it in scoobs or evos, I thought they were pretty responsive on boost.
They don't, but such a complaint is what I'd expect from a an Audi driver who would be used to a homogenised, middle of the road experience. Whats wrong with a bit of turbo lag? It made turbo powered cars great fun, that big rush of power that exploded so quickly and viciously. It's a shame that turbo power delivery is moving away from that. My S60 has a low pressure turbo, supposed to spool up quickly but that still delivers a rush of power as the revs climb. Great fun!OllieC said:
Can you not have an opinion on a car just because you do not own a 'decent' motor yourself ?
My cars are worth the sum total of 3/8 of bugger all and it would be fair to say inferior in pretty much every aspect, but I feel perfectly able to form a judgement on Audi vs BMW in the context of this thread.
Ofcourse you can. The issue I have is some people saying how crap they are compared to certain BMW's etc when they have never given an Audi a chance. You can not judge a car by a 5 minuite drive in my opinion, it goes way beyond that, but ofcourse I agree that first impresions are important but the people who are saying this drive god awful cars themselves but fail to see that, just like I fail to see whats wrong with Audis. Are they really that bad, not if you look at how many there are on the roads & that has to prove something.My cars are worth the sum total of 3/8 of bugger all and it would be fair to say inferior in pretty much every aspect, but I feel perfectly able to form a judgement on Audi vs BMW in the context of this thread.
Steameh said:
Do Subarus have a big turbo lag problem? I have never heard of it in scoobs or evos, I thought they were pretty responsive on boost.
Not as standard, though you can map it for "lag...lag...lag...WHOOOOOSH" delivery if that is your thing. In standard form the Scoob (Evo too) reaches boost quickly and will get to full boost quickly too. A little different to your average derv Audi repmobile complete with a small turbo, which will boost from very low revs and reach full boost almost immediately once over the boost threshold. If you are comparing like for like in 300bhp petrol turbo cars with only a single turbocharger, I've never heard of any brand being better or worse in terms of lag - it all depends on how the car is set up and how you drive it. I certainly can't think of any car from the last 10 years that came out of the factory being particularly "laggy", modern day ECU tuning has managed to decrease the size of flat spots that 80s and early 90s turbo cars used to suffer.
If you are used to barging about in your Audi derv but for some reason fin yourself in an Impreza, and you catch the car flat footed in the wrong gear and floor it, nothing will happen for a long time, but this is true in any petrol turbo not running anti lag. Try telling that to an Audi zealot though!
I've no axe to grind here between an Audi over say a BMW. I have a personal preference which is the BMW but reckon the Audi's are as good looking if not better looking than some of the BM's and have a quality feel to their interiors and dynamically have come a long way over the last few years.
But every time I read a post about Audi's, just like this one, there seems to be a need for some posters to justify their choice of Audi by slating BM's & Merc's in the process. This I feel is totally unnecessary even if the Audi owner could have purchased a BM for a similar sum.
The bottom line is it's horses for courses. Audi's don't have the same image as BM's be it good, bad or indifferent and sadly Audi 'assoication' with VW doesn't help their image as a premium brand and neither does Audi have the renowned engineering pedigree of BMW and no I'm not discounting the original Quattro or the current R8. Every time I read a road test of BMW-v-Audi, you know which will be given the more glowing report before finishing the artical and I don't believe for one second it's down to jouralistic biased prior to the test.
As I said I've no axe to grind, it's just the way I see things. And I would consider an A6 2.0TDi over the 520d if I was in the market for diesel (hopefully never). Audi are getting there by all accounts but for petrol-heads like me they'll need to produce cars that knock the likes of the M3 and S-Class etc off the top slot at every road test first, then attitudes will change, well there'll be less of these type of threads which would be something.
Keep trying Audi.
But every time I read a post about Audi's, just like this one, there seems to be a need for some posters to justify their choice of Audi by slating BM's & Merc's in the process. This I feel is totally unnecessary even if the Audi owner could have purchased a BM for a similar sum.
The bottom line is it's horses for courses. Audi's don't have the same image as BM's be it good, bad or indifferent and sadly Audi 'assoication' with VW doesn't help their image as a premium brand and neither does Audi have the renowned engineering pedigree of BMW and no I'm not discounting the original Quattro or the current R8. Every time I read a road test of BMW-v-Audi, you know which will be given the more glowing report before finishing the artical and I don't believe for one second it's down to jouralistic biased prior to the test.
As I said I've no axe to grind, it's just the way I see things. And I would consider an A6 2.0TDi over the 520d if I was in the market for diesel (hopefully never). Audi are getting there by all accounts but for petrol-heads like me they'll need to produce cars that knock the likes of the M3 and S-Class etc off the top slot at every road test first, then attitudes will change, well there'll be less of these type of threads which would be something.
Keep trying Audi.
Edited by Johnboy Mac on Thursday 9th June 16:45
Mastodon2 said:
Steameh said:
Do Subarus have a big turbo lag problem? I have never heard of it in scoobs or evos, I thought they were pretty responsive on boost.
Not as standard, though you can map it for "lag...lag...lag...WHOOOOOSH" delivery if that is your thing. In standard form the Scoob (Evo too) reaches boost quickly and will get to full boost quickly too. A little different to your average derv Audi repmobile complete with a small turbo, which will boost from very low revs and reach full boost almost immediately once over the boost threshold. If you are comparing like for like in 300bhp petrol turbo cars with only a single turbocharger, I've never heard of any brand being better or worse in terms of lag - it all depends on how the car is set up and how you drive it. I certainly can't think of any car from the last 10 years that came out of the factory being particularly "laggy", modern day ECU tuning has managed to decrease the size of flat spots that 80s and early 90s turbo cars used to suffer.
If you are used to barging about in your Audi derv but for some reason fin yourself in an Impreza, and you catch the car flat footed in the wrong gear and floor it, nothing will happen for a long time, but this is true in any petrol turbo not running anti lag. Try telling that to an Audi zealot though!
makes me laugh when people claim that they don't suffer turbo lag, unless you have re-defined the laws of physics, then yes they do, how much or course is down to several factors, but if your looking at a 300Bhp single turbo, then it will be noticeable, as will boost threshold.
I wonder if some people on here can read, I have owned a few Subaru Turbo's, I know exactly what they are like, I also know what they cost to run.
looking at the current WRX STI:
2.5LITRE DOHC TURBO SUBARU BOXER
MAX OUTPUT: 300 PS / 6,000 rpm
MAX TORQUE: 407Nm / 4,000 rpm
FUEL ECONOMY: 26.9 mpg
CO2 EMISSIONS: 243 g/km
VED Band: L
vs Audi S4
3L Supercharged V6
MAX OUTPUT: 333 PS @ 5,500 to 7,000
MAX TORQUE: 440Nm (90% between 2,200/5,900 rpm)
FUEL ECONOMY: 30.1 mpg
VED Band: K
CO2 EMISSIONS: 219 g/km
so, less power, less torque, turbo lag, worse MPG, more expensive tax, slower, etc etc.
also, the Audi does not look like Kev's car as driven by yoths with baseball caps on backwards.
nothing against audis here but here is my two pence worth. I liked the look of the rs4 over the m3 e46 and had driven an e46 etc.But downsides to an rs4 convertible circa 61k new with options were no glove box when the fridge was specified,the roof intrudes into the rear passenger space when opening or closing, it is near impossible to get in the back with the roof up and the seats when adjusted tight pop out and reveal the foam of the front seats. Oh and the cupholder always breaks especially if it gets sticky. On the other hand it sounds absolutely epic but for a car of this price surely these are flaws that should be fixed.
My friends S3 3 years old had engine problems at 40k.
Another had an A3 cabrio and the clutch and gearbox went on seperate occasions and the roof jammed open.
Someone also mentioned something about the S5 coupe letting water in when you open the door as the water sits on the roof although cant confirm this.
I personally like there cars especially anything with the 4.2 V8 but to me they dont seem anymore special then normal manufacturer but then i would say the same applies to bmw ie leg room in the back of the one series is shocking etc.
My friends S3 3 years old had engine problems at 40k.
Another had an A3 cabrio and the clutch and gearbox went on seperate occasions and the roof jammed open.
Someone also mentioned something about the S5 coupe letting water in when you open the door as the water sits on the roof although cant confirm this.
I personally like there cars especially anything with the 4.2 V8 but to me they dont seem anymore special then normal manufacturer but then i would say the same applies to bmw ie leg room in the back of the one series is shocking etc.
Scuffers said:
lol!
makes me laugh when people claim that they don't suffer turbo lag, unless you have re-defined the laws of physics, then yes they do, how much or course is down to several factors, but if your looking at a 300Bhp single turbo, then it will be noticeable, as will boost threshold.
I wonder if some people on here can read, I have owned a few Subaru Turbo's, I know exactly what they are like, I also know what they cost to run.
looking at the current WRX STI:
[b]
2.5LITRE DOHC TURBO SUBARU BOXER
MAX OUTPUT: 300 PS / 6,000 rpm
MAX TORQUE: 407Nm / 4,000 rpm
FUEL ECONOMY: 26.9 mpg
CO2 EMISSIONS: 243 g/km
VED Band: L
[/b]
vs Audi S4
3L Supercharged V6
MAX OUTPUT: 333 PS @ 5,500 to 7,000
MAX TORQUE: 440Nm (90% between 2,200/5,900 rpm)
FUEL ECONOMY: 30.1 mpg
VED Band: K
CO2 EMISSIONS: 219 g/km
so, less power, less torque, turbo lag, worse MPG, more expensive tax, slower, etc etc.
also, the Audi does not look like Kev's car as driven by yoths with baseball caps on backwards.
To put that into perspective, for roughly the same "bad" figures (CO2, MPG, etc etc), BMW will give you a 4.4l V8, with over 400bhp...makes me laugh when people claim that they don't suffer turbo lag, unless you have re-defined the laws of physics, then yes they do, how much or course is down to several factors, but if your looking at a 300Bhp single turbo, then it will be noticeable, as will boost threshold.
I wonder if some people on here can read, I have owned a few Subaru Turbo's, I know exactly what they are like, I also know what they cost to run.
looking at the current WRX STI:
[b]
2.5LITRE DOHC TURBO SUBARU BOXER
MAX OUTPUT: 300 PS / 6,000 rpm
MAX TORQUE: 407Nm / 4,000 rpm
FUEL ECONOMY: 26.9 mpg
CO2 EMISSIONS: 243 g/km
VED Band: L
[/b]
vs Audi S4
3L Supercharged V6
MAX OUTPUT: 333 PS @ 5,500 to 7,000
MAX TORQUE: 440Nm (90% between 2,200/5,900 rpm)
FUEL ECONOMY: 30.1 mpg
VED Band: K
CO2 EMISSIONS: 219 g/km
so, less power, less torque, turbo lag, worse MPG, more expensive tax, slower, etc etc.
also, the Audi does not look like Kev's car as driven by yoths with baseball caps on backwards.
So the scooby aint that great.
Scuffers said:
so, less power, less torque, turbo lag, worse MPG, more expensive tax, slower, etc etc.
And thats where the numbers game falls flat. So the Audi reads a little better on paper, but weighs a tonne, is far less exciting to drive but probably better for dropping the kids off at school, or at the pool. Mind you, this obsession with numbers at the expense of everything else is typical Audi, talks the talk but cannot walk the walk. Pandering to people who buy cars based on stats and spec sheets rather than sheer seat of your pants petrolhead fun.
Baryonyx said:
Scuffers said:
so, less power, less torque, turbo lag, worse MPG, more expensive tax, slower, etc etc.
And thats where the numbers game falls flat. So the Audi reads a little better on paper, but weighs a tonne, is far less exciting to drive but probably better for dropping the kids off at school, or at the pool. Mind you, this obsession with numbers at the expense of everything else is typical Audi, talks the talk but cannot walk the walk. Pandering to people who buy cars based on stats and spec sheets rather than sheer seat of your pants petrolhead fun.
and (again), I don't have kids to take to school.
yes, stat's are not everything, in reality, I struggled to get 18Mpg from a scooby, (vs. overall average of 26.8 for the S4).
all this aside, I know which one I prefer to be in....
Back to the subject, as a pure drivers experience, I'll quite happily accept the M3 is a more dynamic drivers car, it's just 99% of the time, I don't drive like that, and prefer the Audi as a place to be.
My Dad has an S5 Coupé and despite having a 4.2 V8 complete with 354bhp I find it a bit dull to drive. Okay, the auto 'box doesn't help things and nor do the 20" wheels, but I was quite shocked at just how little laughs there are to be had from it in the bends. On the flip-side, it's got a lovely interior, is a great grand tourer, sounds pretty awesome, is built better than its rivals (IMO) and looks rather nice. For me, these things are not nearly enough to make up for its dynamic shortfalls, but it's certainly understandable why someone would be attracted to it. I'd have a 335i over the S5, but you have to remember some people like the handling security afforded by Quattro and Audi's trademark chassis setup, my Dad included.
sparkythecat said:
Audi interiors don't have to be boring. I bought this 4 year old A6 Avant a few months ago and the interior is far from bland. Each to his own and all that, but I think it's terrific.
That interior defines blandness! Worsened by all that grey, especially the plastic. I'd want to deface it to give it some character.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff