RE: Lotus Poised To 'Twist Key' On Esprit's New V8
Discussion
cathalm said:
Where do they get you people? New supercar from Hethel with a high revving NA v8, more concrete details to whet the appetite and it's all smug sniping on this thread.
What is it? Do you people just hate Lotus or do you feel that being scathing for no apparent reason makes you feel important? What is the basis of this bile "bla bla it wont happen because I say so".
Give a bloody reason, Wolf Zimmerman was AMGs top guy for years, the funding is there and Lotus having been developing engines for third parties for years and years. What reason do you actually have to be so nakedly hostile on every thread?
No, the fact that it hasn't happened yet in a year since reveal is not a valid reason, nobody could have done that. The fact that you might dislike Dany Bahar is not a reason, he is not designing the car, a group of absolutely top spec experts from all over are doing that.
I don't wish to be harsh, but this is a performance motoring forum, if you don't want a new supercar without a turbo, if you don't want a company like Lotus to succeed then why are you on here? On the other hand if you doubt the chances of success for any reason other than you want it to fail or you don't like the personnel then state your reasons and we can all consider them and debate. How helpful and supportive is this statement to an important player in the game we all love?
"Yeah yeah Mclaren will never build their new F1 or 911 competitor because it's all marketing so far and Ron Dennis likes to talk a lot."
Be constructive for gods sake.
Yes apologies that anybody should dare to have an opinion that isn't 100% optimistic.What is it? Do you people just hate Lotus or do you feel that being scathing for no apparent reason makes you feel important? What is the basis of this bile "bla bla it wont happen because I say so".
Give a bloody reason, Wolf Zimmerman was AMGs top guy for years, the funding is there and Lotus having been developing engines for third parties for years and years. What reason do you actually have to be so nakedly hostile on every thread?
No, the fact that it hasn't happened yet in a year since reveal is not a valid reason, nobody could have done that. The fact that you might dislike Dany Bahar is not a reason, he is not designing the car, a group of absolutely top spec experts from all over are doing that.
I don't wish to be harsh, but this is a performance motoring forum, if you don't want a new supercar without a turbo, if you don't want a company like Lotus to succeed then why are you on here? On the other hand if you doubt the chances of success for any reason other than you want it to fail or you don't like the personnel then state your reasons and we can all consider them and debate. How helpful and supportive is this statement to an important player in the game we all love?
"Yeah yeah Mclaren will never build their new F1 or 911 competitor because it's all marketing so far and Ron Dennis likes to talk a lot."
Be constructive for gods sake.
This is Lotus. How many times have we been promised great things from them, only for it to either not happen or be hugely underwhelming?
I mean good luck to them, I genuinely hope they succeed, but I'd like to see the results, not just read about a load of hot air from a bunch of marketing morons.
Fingers crossed.
If all the brit designers and engineers in Norfolk can deliver this at a reasonable price I think they will have a sure fire winner. They have the ability and experience to do this all it really needs is the management to back them and deliver the right environment and support (finanace) to make it happen. Lotus are still world leaders in suspension, handling and engine development (just look at the history they have having been consultants to approx 75% of the car industry over the years).
Good luck boys - make it happen.
We need a british supercar again.
If all the brit designers and engineers in Norfolk can deliver this at a reasonable price I think they will have a sure fire winner. They have the ability and experience to do this all it really needs is the management to back them and deliver the right environment and support (finanace) to make it happen. Lotus are still world leaders in suspension, handling and engine development (just look at the history they have having been consultants to approx 75% of the car industry over the years).
Good luck boys - make it happen.
We need a british supercar again.
Dixie said:
I guess the guys at Proton must know what they're doing. But.....
Did the Europa sell that well? I think i've only seen one or two on the road.
Never seen a Europa on the road. Not once.
Will they really sell enough of them to make a profit????
From what I gather, the Europa was only used to soak up all the spare bits bought for the VX220. I don't think they were serious about shifting many of them.Did the Europa sell that well? I think i've only seen one or two on the road.
Never seen a Europa on the road. Not once.
Will they really sell enough of them to make a profit????
lockup said:
Complaining about too many fantastic new supercars? Knob-achingly similar would have been a better description.
To paraphrase a quote from the Simpsons "These hard working designers saw an already crowded market place and said 'Me Too!'"So you've got a choice. You can buy a Ferrari 458 with 500ish bhp, a McLaren MP4-12C thingy with 500ish bhp or a Lotus Esprit with 500ish bhp all for the same money. Which are you going to go for?
cathalm said:
Where do they get you people? New supercar from Hethel with a high revving NA v8, more concrete details to whet the appetite and it's all smug sniping on this thread.
What is it? Do you people just hate Lotus or do you feel that being scathing for no apparent reason makes you feel important? What is the basis of this bile "bla bla it wont happen because I say so".
Give a bloody reason, Wolf Zimmerman was AMGs top guy for years, the funding is there and Lotus having been developing engines for third parties for years and years. What reason do you actually have to be so nakedly hostile on every thread?
No, the fact that it hasn't happened yet in a year since reveal is not a valid reason, nobody could have done that. The fact that you might dislike Dany Bahar is not a reason, he is not designing the car, a group of absolutely top spec experts from all over are doing that.
I don't wish to be harsh, but this is a performance motoring forum, if you don't want a new supercar without a turbo, if you don't want a company like Lotus to succeed then why are you on here? On the other hand if you doubt the chances of success for any reason other than you want it to fail or you don't like the personnel then state your reasons and we can all consider them and debate. How helpful and supportive is this statement to an important player in the game we all love?
"Yeah yeah Mclaren will never build their new F1 or 911 competitor because it's all marketing so far and Ron Dennis likes to talk a lot."
Be constructive for gods sake.
Every single thread on here has detractors...doesn't matter if if Jesus himself shat out a 30k supercar in solid gold that ran on enthusiasm....someone would find something to complain aboutWhat is it? Do you people just hate Lotus or do you feel that being scathing for no apparent reason makes you feel important? What is the basis of this bile "bla bla it wont happen because I say so".
Give a bloody reason, Wolf Zimmerman was AMGs top guy for years, the funding is there and Lotus having been developing engines for third parties for years and years. What reason do you actually have to be so nakedly hostile on every thread?
No, the fact that it hasn't happened yet in a year since reveal is not a valid reason, nobody could have done that. The fact that you might dislike Dany Bahar is not a reason, he is not designing the car, a group of absolutely top spec experts from all over are doing that.
I don't wish to be harsh, but this is a performance motoring forum, if you don't want a new supercar without a turbo, if you don't want a company like Lotus to succeed then why are you on here? On the other hand if you doubt the chances of success for any reason other than you want it to fail or you don't like the personnel then state your reasons and we can all consider them and debate. How helpful and supportive is this statement to an important player in the game we all love?
"Yeah yeah Mclaren will never build their new F1 or 911 competitor because it's all marketing so far and Ron Dennis likes to talk a lot."
Be constructive for gods sake.
MarJay said:
So you've got a choice. You can buy a Ferrari 458 with 500ish bhp, a McLaren MP4-12C thingy with 500ish bhp or a Lotus Esprit with 500ish bhp all for the same money. Which are you going to go for?
I'd drive them all and see which I preferred, what would you do?Anyway, the figures being banded around show the Esprit being 50k cheaper than the Ferrari or the McLaren.
So trueMarJay said:
To paraphrase a quote from the Simpsons "These hard working designers saw an already crowded market place and said 'Me Too!'"
So you've got a choice. You can buy a Ferrari 458 with 500ish bhp, a McLaren MP4-12C thingy with 500ish bhp or a Lotus Esprit with 500ish bhp all for the same money. Which are you going to go for?
find me a 458 or 12c that costs 120k. even if they were the same price the horsepower and brand shouldn't be your only criteria in buying a car. So you've got a choice. You can buy a Ferrari 458 with 500ish bhp, a McLaren MP4-12C thingy with 500ish bhp or a Lotus Esprit with 500ish bhp all for the same money. Which are you going to go for?
MarJay said:
So you've got a choice. You can buy a SECONDHAND 3-4 YEAR OLD Ferrari 458 with 500ish bhp, a SECONDHAND 3-4 YEAR OLD McLaren MP4-12C thingy with 500ish bhp or a BRAND NEW built to your spec Lotus Esprit with 500ish bhp all for the same money. Which are you going to go for?
EFA.scampbird said:
Yes apologies that anybody should dare to have an opinion that isn't 100% optimistic.
This is Lotus. How many times have we been promised great things from them, only for it to either not happen or be hugely underwhelming?
I mean good luck to them, I genuinely hope they succeed, but I'd like to see the results, not just read about a load of hot air from a bunch of marketing morons.
Rubbish. You imply that I don't want people to have negative opinions, yet the text of what I said is visible in your own post and doesn't support that in the least. Have negative opinions, but tell us why and your reasoning don't just spout prejudice. Naked obvious prejudice like "marketing morons".This is Lotus. How many times have we been promised great things from them, only for it to either not happen or be hugely underwhelming?
I mean good luck to them, I genuinely hope they succeed, but I'd like to see the results, not just read about a load of hot air from a bunch of marketing morons.
How may times did you get promised something that didn't happen, well I'd say once, with the M250. Fair point. But there is little commonality between Lotus at that time and now, so why not give them a chance instead of being scathing when they try? How many times did they deliver something "hugely underwhelming"? Not in my lifetime. Perhaps you might say the Europa was to many disappointing, but it was still great drivers car.
I find it odd that you consider Wolf Zimmerman to be a marketing moron. I suspect he would have hoped that decades of engineering AMG performance engines qualified him for a little respect but okay, you have the right to be negative (and the right to make a small modicum of sense if you please).
Way to prove my argument.
PW said:
How many times over the last 10 years have we heard all about the fabulous new Esprit in development with whichever V8 engine is in vogue?
I'll believe it when I see it.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
HOW MANY TIME HAVE YOU SEEN SUCH DRAMATIC CHANCHES AT LOTUS THE LAST 10 YEARS ??????
THNIK, BEFORE YOU WRITE !!!!!!
and by the way, if you only belive in what you see, you will be death in about 2 minutes, or can you see the the air you breathe ....
How many times over the last 10 years have we heard all about the fabulous new Esprit in development with whichever V8 engine is in vogue?
I'll believe it when I see it.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
HOW MANY TIME HAVE YOU SEEN SUCH DRAMATIC CHANCHES AT LOTUS THE LAST 10 YEARS ??????
THNIK, BEFORE YOU WRITE !!!!!!
and by the way, if you only belive in what you see, you will be death in about 2 minutes, or can you see the the air you breathe ....
scampbird said:
This is Lotus. How many times have we been promised great things from them, only for it to either not happen or be hugely underwhelming?
Good question, how many times?M250 - canned when the VX220 deal nearly took the company under
Europa - was never promised as a great thing, just released as an Elise variant.
Evora - Universally praised for handling, new S version praised for performance, journos conclude it's "not a Porsche"
Esprit - Announced at the same time as the Evora, repeatedly held back as the company takes stock.
So, the current management can be blamed for the last one of those. The engineering department hasn't much to be embarrassed about. The Evora's a funny one - is it a Cayman rival (too many seats, not quite price competitive), or a 911 rival (cheaper, but not delivering giant killing performance)? Do you blame the management for not targeting a clearer niche, or the design department for not making it a more defined proposition? I still think it's a sleeper of a car, and Lotus can evolve it into a serious offering.
What's your point again? Lotus can't succeed because of what exactly? What part of the company that's currently working on the new range do you think is going to drop the ball?
Mullah said:
People scoffed at audi when they dipped their toe into 911 turbo territory with the r8, but when they delivered a car that acheived excellence in every area people took notice, sales follwoed and the rest is history.
This is a new lotus headed by someone with a track record of delivering and backed by new money. It looks as good as the competition, is 50k cheaper and if it performs on par with the rest well then it's going to sell to anyone in the market for a supercar and half a brain, just like the r8 does.
The difference being that the world knows Audi is a global brand and can build a solid, reliable car. If the thing looks good, goes well and gets good reviews, it'll sell as it did.This is a new lotus headed by someone with a track record of delivering and backed by new money. It looks as good as the competition, is 50k cheaper and if it performs on par with the rest well then it's going to sell to anyone in the market for a supercar and half a brain, just like the r8 does.
The general perception of Lotus (whether right or wrong) is a relatively small outfit with a poor track record for reliability. If it looks good, goes well and gets good reviews, people will still need to be convinced it's worth the money.
cathalm said:
Rubbish. You imply that I don't want people to have negative opinions, yet the text of what I said is visible in your own post and doesn't support that in the least. Have negative opinions, but tell us why and your reasoning don't just spout prejudice. Naked obvious prejudice like "marketing morons".
How may times did you get promised something that didn't happen, well I'd say once, with the M250. Fair point. But there is little commonality between Lotus at that time and now, so why not give them a chance instead of being scathing when they try? How many times did they deliver something "hugely underwhelming"? Not in my lifetime. Perhaps you might say the Europa was to many disappointing, but it was still great drivers car.
I find it odd that you consider Wolf Zimmerman to be a marketing moron. I suspect he would have hoped that decades of engineering AMG performance engines qualified him for a little respect but okay, you have the right to be negative (and the right to make a small modicum of sense if you please).
Way to prove my argument.
Oh don't be so condescending.How may times did you get promised something that didn't happen, well I'd say once, with the M250. Fair point. But there is little commonality between Lotus at that time and now, so why not give them a chance instead of being scathing when they try? How many times did they deliver something "hugely underwhelming"? Not in my lifetime. Perhaps you might say the Europa was to many disappointing, but it was still great drivers car.
I find it odd that you consider Wolf Zimmerman to be a marketing moron. I suspect he would have hoped that decades of engineering AMG performance engines qualified him for a little respect but okay, you have the right to be negative (and the right to make a small modicum of sense if you please).
Way to prove my argument.
Let's turn it around, where is *your* proof that it will succeed? I have plenty of proof in my own mind thanks. Lotus V8, going to be saviour of the Steven's Esprit. Turned out to be not very good and not terribly reliable and mated to the worlds crappest gearbox. M250, didn't happen. Evora? Yes, its a brilliant drive. Selling many? Ha.
All I'm asking is that they quieten down a bit, stop coming out with this utter rubbish "we'll deliver 500 new models in 3 years" or whatever it will be next. If they've got the funding already then shut up and start delivering.
jaik said:
Mullah said:
People scoffed at audi when they dipped their toe into 911 turbo territory with the r8, but when they delivered a car that acheived excellence in every area people took notice, sales follwoed and the rest is history.
This is a new lotus headed by someone with a track record of delivering and backed by new money. It looks as good as the competition, is 50k cheaper and if it performs on par with the rest well then it's going to sell to anyone in the market for a supercar and half a brain, just like the r8 does.
The difference being that the world knows Audi is a global brand and can build a solid, reliable car. If the thing looks good, goes well and gets good reviews, it'll sell as it did.This is a new lotus headed by someone with a track record of delivering and backed by new money. It looks as good as the competition, is 50k cheaper and if it performs on par with the rest well then it's going to sell to anyone in the market for a supercar and half a brain, just like the r8 does.
The general perception of Lotus (whether right or wrong) is a relatively small outfit with a poor track record for reliability. If it looks good, goes well and gets good reviews, people will still need to be convinced it's worth the money.
Big problem for Lotus in my own interactions is not a public perception that they have a poor track record, but that there's no measurable perception at all. When I said to people I know I was considering buying a second-hand Evora the answer was generally "what's that?", and on my replying "It's a Lotus" followed up by "Oh, are they still going?"
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