RE: The Lotus Five Year Plan - One Year In

[Scuffers]

Lord_Colin said:

Lotus finished 3rd with the Evora at Le Mans (24hrs) in Class, with a car, that has almost no testing seen before. Several Ferrari and Porsche have not seen the finish line!!

One of the lotus Evora's came in 7th in class at Lemans, not 3rd? (the other one DNF'ed)

(that's still good going, but it was not it's first 24H attempt either, and at best it was some 9 sec's off the pace of the class.)

[bordseye]

Lotus appealed to me as an engineering led British car company with history. Its become a foreign owned foreign managed marketing bullsh*t led company that thinks in terms of a "brand".

If I want to spend 100k on buying a brand then I'll buy one with real kudos - like Ferrari or Lambo. Even Porker. Or Aston if I feel a bit patriotic ( and yes I know about the Kuwait investment office). Why take the depreciation risk of spending on an unknown rather than an established name

[The Pits]

I have no problem Lotus making £100k+ cars, provided they are extraordinarily good, impressively light and they continue to offer more accessible cars as well. It would be a real loss if they only operated at Aston Martin level.

I don't think the world has ever seen anything quite like the F40 since. But if Lotus made a supercar I think it should be along those lines, very light, race inspired, bite the back of your hand styling with the performance to back it up. The F40 has proven there is a considerable appetite out there for that sort of car. A scaled up Exige with a very light, and for me stratosphericly high revving engine (for big money I'd like a car that revs over 9k, that way it will sound like nothing else out there and over-engineering for longevity for that sort of car is unnecessary, very few top end supercars cover anything like the mileages their capable of, I would happily sacrifice 100,000 mile ability for some genuine race tech). Above all it should be a sensational drive to the track and back car. A scaled up Exige with carbon bodywork, proper downforce an exotic soundtrack if you will. Even better to finally make a road car with active suspension, something Lotus were already looking into in the 90's.

The plans for the Esprit as they currently stand are for another supercar with a specification to rival 458, Gallardo, MP412C, GT2 etc. Circa 600bhp, Circa 1400kg. Simply not good enough. Lotus really need to make a massive impact with their first new car. To lay down a marker, to send shockwaves through the supercar establishment in order to inspire confidence in the new team and kick start the new era. Get it wrong and the whole plan is over. So the stakes couldn't be higher.

[anonymous-user]

Scuffers said:

One of the lotus Evora's came in 7th in class at Lemans, not 3rd? (the other one DNF'ed) that's still good going, but it was not it's first 24H attempt either, and at best it was some 9 sec's off the pace of the class.

Correct

The Evora had been allowed special dispensations in order to help it be reasonably competitive in class.....

For those who may be unaware the rules at Le Mans are distinctly flexible. The ACO plays about with the classes and some individual cars in order to maintain perceptions of the race a world-leading event with competitive racing.

[Baddie]

I think Lotus are between a rock and a hard place. What they are doing clearly isn't working, can't believe they've not made money for 15 yrs... I am impressed by the ambition and the attempts to get some very serious names on board to provide experience and a huge helping of goodwill, but I have doubts about the plans. I'm sorry, but for >£160 k I want a more aurally charismatic engine than a flat plane V8 - Ferrari get away with it because they've been selling them for 40 years but it's primarily a functional layout and sounds unglamorously like two fours. Unless of course that flat crank V8 is powering the worlds most adept chassis to record lap times.

The Pits said:

A scaled up Exige with a very light, and for me stratosphericly high revving engine (for big money I'd like a car that revs over 9k, that way it will sound like nothing else out there and over-engineering for longevity for that sort of car is unnecessary, very few top end supercars cover anything like the mileages their capable of, I would happily sacrifice 100,000 mile ability for some genuine race tech). Above all it should be a sensational drive to the track and back car.

I hope they at least discussed the LFA's V10 with Toyota. Evo's engine of the year, 9.4k, probably bomb proof to 100,000 miles as well, and extraordinarily charismatic. Perhaps Lexus didn't like the thought of it installed in a car half the price and 200 kg lighter than the LFA.

The Pits said:

I have no problem Lotus making £100k+ cars, provided they are extraordinarily good, impressively light and they continue to offer more accessible cars as well. It would be a real loss if they only operated at Aston Martin level.

I don't think the world has ever seen anything quite like the F40 since. But if Lotus made a supercar I think it should be along those lines, very light, race inspired, bite the back of your hand styling with the performance to back it up. The F40 has proven there is a considerable appetite out there for that sort of car.

I would agree, but Ferrari also hit a sweet spot with the F40 in which everything has proven in hindsight to be spot on, from the bare bones build to the aggressive styling that was not a huge hit at the time. It also was the direct offspring of the GTO Evoluzione, a proper would-be race car that was thoroughly developed in uniquely pragmatic Italian style after the 288 GTO caught the limelight, so it was easy for Ferrari to put some very thin gloss on and sell it. It's patchy quality was forgiven because it was the world's fastest road car (Mark Hales timed it to 170 mph in 22 seconds making it quicker than an MP4-12C!), and provided an extraordinary hit of adrenaline when the turbos lit up. Times have changed and Lotus would have to build such a car with quality, safety, and a degree of comfort - heat insulation for a start; but this is what Noble have already done, and previous posters are saying that Noble is struggling.

But I would otherwise agree with you. Lotus can't carry on as they are, but I don't see them building £100k luxury saloons and coupes. They have never done anything to suggest they can do quality and interior aesthetics to compete at that level - I find the Elise interior deeply irritating and the Evora is not £50k of aesthetics. The spotlight is now so unforgiving now, and even at £90k there is the magical Porsche GT3, Audi R8. Doing something completely different from the rest is the only way to go, and given Lotus's history that would seem to be lighter, leaner, harder.

[The Wookie]

Baddie said:

I hope they at least discussed the LFA's V10 with Toyota. Evo's engine of the year, 9.4k, probably bomb proof to 100,000 miles as well, and extraordinarily charismatic. Perhaps Lexus didn't like the thought of it installed in a car half the price and 200 kg lighter than the LFA.

From what I've heard that engine is stratospherically expensive for anyone to buy out from Toyota, well over 6 figures

[The Pits]

Sadly it wasn't even a contender back when Lotus were planning to use toyota/lexus engines. The talk then was of n/a and supercharged versions of the ISF V8.

My guess is that it would erode the status of Lexus all-time flagship model to have it in a cheaper (and even worse) and potentially faster car.

A man can dream though.

[otolith]

I wonder to what extent whether the Toyota it appears in bears a Toyota or Lexus badge influences the perception of an engine's suitability.

[CliveM]

Has anything been heard from Lotus as to how the plan is going now????
It's been veeeeeeeery quiet recently (unless I missed something)??

[Alfa numeric]

There's a reasonably positive article in the current issue of EVO- apparently all targets are being met.

[anonymous-user]

Alfa numeric said:

There's a reasonably positive article in the current issue of EVO- apparently all targets are being met.

... a bit like the bloke at RBS with his £1,000,000 bonus then!

Fact is, down the toilet is down the toilet.

[Scuffers]

Alfa numeric said:

There's a reasonably positive article in the current issue of EVO- apparently all targets are being met.

as said, that rather depends what the targets were, clearly selling cars was not one of them!