Anyone feel sorry for McLaren? What could they do different?
Discussion
There have now been a fair number of 458 vs MP4-12C comparison tests, both in the written media and now on Top Gear.
Seems that the majority of tests come to the same conclusion: McLaren technically superior, handles better, rides better. It's the one that you would choose with your head. However, the Ferrari wins overall because the McLaren lacks character/soul/heart/passion/zing (delete as appropraite).
I suppose as a McLaren engineer I'd be a little gutted. They are almost certainly uberpassionate about what they do (similar comparisons can be drawn to the M engineers) and yet their cars are considered not to convey this compared with more (allegedly) characterful opposition.
What could McLaren do differently for their next car? Will they do anything different or is this simply McLaren being Mclaren and nothing will change?
Opinions welcome.
Seems that the majority of tests come to the same conclusion: McLaren technically superior, handles better, rides better. It's the one that you would choose with your head. However, the Ferrari wins overall because the McLaren lacks character/soul/heart/passion/zing (delete as appropraite).
I suppose as a McLaren engineer I'd be a little gutted. They are almost certainly uberpassionate about what they do (similar comparisons can be drawn to the M engineers) and yet their cars are considered not to convey this compared with more (allegedly) characterful opposition.
What could McLaren do differently for their next car? Will they do anything different or is this simply McLaren being Mclaren and nothing will change?
Opinions welcome.
I dont feel sorry for them.
The MP12 will sell like hot cakes.
All those words of passion/soul etc seem to be mainly used for italian cars, which in many cases seems to mean unreliable (cant speak for Ferrari), but my experience of italian cars (Alfa/Fiat) they are utter rubbish.
The MP12 will have its day, but for right now its not been here long enough nor does it have a stallion or bull badge on its nose to help it with its automatic "soul" points ;-)
The MP12 will sell like hot cakes.
All those words of passion/soul etc seem to be mainly used for italian cars, which in many cases seems to mean unreliable (cant speak for Ferrari), but my experience of italian cars (Alfa/Fiat) they are utter rubbish.
The MP12 will have its day, but for right now its not been here long enough nor does it have a stallion or bull badge on its nose to help it with its automatic "soul" points ;-)
design a car that wasn't so dull and generic?
think of the Zenvo- no one really cares what it's like to drive, because it looks so awesome. With an all new product branding and direction with the MP4-12C, Mclaren could have gone absolutely nuts. There are no proportions or face or branding that it has to adhere to.
If you saw it on the roads you wouldn't go "WOW" unless you knew what it was, you would just think- oh its a generic super-car. If you saw a Zenvo, an Alfa 8C, a Gumpert, or even a Spyker, i think everyone would say "WOW"!
It's just lacking a bit of emotion in the design. This has nothing to do with the engineers though.
Slomax
think of the Zenvo- no one really cares what it's like to drive, because it looks so awesome. With an all new product branding and direction with the MP4-12C, Mclaren could have gone absolutely nuts. There are no proportions or face or branding that it has to adhere to.
If you saw it on the roads you wouldn't go "WOW" unless you knew what it was, you would just think- oh its a generic super-car. If you saw a Zenvo, an Alfa 8C, a Gumpert, or even a Spyker, i think everyone would say "WOW"!
It's just lacking a bit of emotion in the design. This has nothing to do with the engineers though.
Slomax
I think cars sometime need a few rough edges to make them feel exciting when you're not actually doing anything very exciting with them. I've always said one of the best things about TVRs is the fact they feel quick when you're sat in a traffic jam. Under those circumstances you need something to create a bit of drama that's otherwise lacking from a set of roadworks in rainy Croydon. So maybe the MP4-12C is every bit as engaging when you're really on it, but just a bit too competent when you're heading out to buy a pint of milk?
To be honest I don't really think they will care that much, Its going to be a huge sales success because its the new toy on the market. It will get snapped up by everyone who "needs" the newest thing for the Harrods GP.
No one who buys these things will give to s
ts about what Top Gear say about it.
Personally I think a lot of the personal touch is lost on cars like this, they are all designed on computers to smash this record, have the highest BHP or return XXXmpg. but then when companies build a car with character and soul without all the gubbins to keep you safe, quiet and comfortable its branded "Dangerous, Scary" and "likely to kill you" resulting in the last great champion of this (TVR in my view) fading into the history books.
No one who buys these things will give to s
ts about what Top Gear say about it.Personally I think a lot of the personal touch is lost on cars like this, they are all designed on computers to smash this record, have the highest BHP or return XXXmpg. but then when companies build a car with character and soul without all the gubbins to keep you safe, quiet and comfortable its branded "Dangerous, Scary" and "likely to kill you" resulting in the last great champion of this (TVR in my view) fading into the history books.
I have to say, I do find it odd that a car companies main aim is to make a road car the fastest it can be on track while caring little for how enjoyable it is.
Not saying this was the intent at McLaren, but reviews certainly seem to suggest they've built a technically brilliant, yet totally pointless car.
Or maybe it's the ideal supercar for people who don't like cars and driving?
Not saying this was the intent at McLaren, but reviews certainly seem to suggest they've built a technically brilliant, yet totally pointless car.
Or maybe it's the ideal supercar for people who don't like cars and driving?
Jgtv said:
Personally I think a lot of the personal touch is lost on cars like this, they are all designed on computers to smash this record, have the highest BHP or return XXXmpg. but then when companies build a car with character and soul without all the gubbins to keep you safe, quiet and comfortable its branded "Dangerous, Scary" and "likely to kill you" resulting in the last great champion of this (TVR in my view) fading into the history books.
And yet the Ariel Atom is doing VERY wellIf it were my own money I'd buy the McLaren over all of the competition. The obsession with detail and engineering will most likely pay off in the long run, with reliability and resale value. Yes those down to earth facets of super car ownership! Something like the Ferrari won't take the years and milage so well I'd wager.
I think Maclaren had a bit of a mare with the original Evo and Car mags reviews/comparisons when the test car had a faulty damper and for some unknown reason the TC was not switched off both hampering it's times around a track. On Sunday most saw it lapping at 3 seconds faster than the 458 around the TG track and anyway you look at that it is a fantastic achievement faster than the fastest Veyron! As for dull and lacking soul I would much prefer those 3 seconds any day plus in real world situations and as a car that can trundle to the shops or a blast to the Ring it would be a far better car than the 458. I think Maclaren should be very pleased and proud at what they have achieved with this car let's not forget Ferrari have been making thousands of cars for many many years.
The Mclaren is hugely fast and this is where they seem to have concentrated most of their efforts along with trying to reinvent the wheel in terms of chassis development.
The Mclaren is apparently very nervous to drive at 6/10ths and above which is fine on track if your a racing driver but on the roads and for most of the likely customers this will be quite a turn off. The biggest issue however appears to be confidence in turning in to a corner as the Mcl offers zero feedback from the wheel. The Ferrari by comparison is alive with information being delivered through the wheel and the seat of your pants. These areas where the Ferrari excel are hard to quantify so they end up being described as soul/zing etc and people then think this is just a pro Italian anti Mcl thing.
I've seen a Mcl on the road and it looks stunning and I would have taken one over a 458 Italia however the reports from the like of Autocar and Evo would make me very nervous if I had a deposit down on one.
McL must be congratulated for the gearbox and slow speed ride however.
The Mclaren is apparently very nervous to drive at 6/10ths and above which is fine on track if your a racing driver but on the roads and for most of the likely customers this will be quite a turn off. The biggest issue however appears to be confidence in turning in to a corner as the Mcl offers zero feedback from the wheel. The Ferrari by comparison is alive with information being delivered through the wheel and the seat of your pants. These areas where the Ferrari excel are hard to quantify so they end up being described as soul/zing etc and people then think this is just a pro Italian anti Mcl thing.
I've seen a Mcl on the road and it looks stunning and I would have taken one over a 458 Italia however the reports from the like of Autocar and Evo would make me very nervous if I had a deposit down on one.
McL must be congratulated for the gearbox and slow speed ride however.
I'm not sure how objective the reviews are. Some reviews state there's no way of disabling the intrusive control systems and other reviews say that you can. As a lot of the subjective comments on drive are based around this system, I'm somewhat suspicious of which journalists know how to press the right buttons, so to speak.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff