Anyone feel sorry for McLaren? What could they do different?
Discussion
They have a full order book for at least 2 years - they've said they'll make more variants (presumably this will include a version which catches fire and has a front-end which will look massively dated in a few months etc. etc.)
What's to feel sorry for?
p.s. the TG thing was still mostly positive and it looked AMAZINGLY fast on those last 2 corners - scary fast (which it was - 3 seconds is a lifetime on a track like that).
When you're spending over £150K on a car there are a LOT of factors to consider - the brand/image of the car is probably one of the largest (let's be honest, if trackspeed were your only concern you'd not look at either the MP or the 458) and Mclaren has a massive amount of catching-up to do on Ferrari (and Porsche and most others marques) in that respect.
What's to feel sorry for?
p.s. the TG thing was still mostly positive and it looked AMAZINGLY fast on those last 2 corners - scary fast (which it was - 3 seconds is a lifetime on a track like that).
When you're spending over £150K on a car there are a LOT of factors to consider - the brand/image of the car is probably one of the largest (let's be honest, if trackspeed were your only concern you'd not look at either the MP or the 458) and Mclaren has a massive amount of catching-up to do on Ferrari (and Porsche and most others marques) in that respect.
Edited by johnpeat on Tuesday 12th July 10:58
barefoot said:
I think Maclaren had a bit of a mare with the original Evo and Car mags reviews/comparisons when the test car had a faulty damper and for some unknown reason the TC was not switched off both hampering it's times around a track. On Sunday most saw it lapping at 3 seconds faster than the 458 around the TG track and anyway you look at that it is a fantastic achievement faster than the fastest Veyron! As for dull and lacking soul I would much prefer those 3 seconds any day plus in real world situations and as a car that can trundle to the shops or a blast to the Ring it would be a far better car than the 458. I think Maclaren should be very pleased and proud at what they have achieved with this car let's not forget Ferrari have been making thousands of cars for many many years.
From what I read in Evo they had no issues with so called 'faulty dampers' on the car provided to them.E30M3SE said:
barefoot said:
I think Maclaren had a bit of a mare with the original Evo and Car mags reviews/comparisons when the test car had a faulty damper and for some unknown reason the TC was not switched off both hampering it's times around a track. On Sunday most saw it lapping at 3 seconds faster than the 458 around the TG track and anyway you look at that it is a fantastic achievement faster than the fastest Veyron! As for dull and lacking soul I would much prefer those 3 seconds any day plus in real world situations and as a car that can trundle to the shops or a blast to the Ring it would be a far better car than the 458. I think Maclaren should be very pleased and proud at what they have achieved with this car let's not forget Ferrari have been making thousands of cars for many many years.
From what I read in Evo they had no issues with so called 'faulty dampers' on the car provided to them.Its early days - the car is phenomenally quick in road trim - wait until the racing versions are being used in anger and its setting new records at every track its taken to - thats what gives the car soul/prestige/provenance.
The F1 suffered from the same comments too - "too clinical" etc and look how well its weathered compared to the F40.
The F1 suffered from the same comments too - "too clinical" etc and look how well its weathered compared to the F40.
It's the nature of the beast if you work in the Automotive industry. You spend literally years working bloody hard to produce an excellent car, only for some journalist with a grudge to bear give you an inaccurate review which is then perpetuated by an army of armchair critics who have not even seen, let alone driven the car. Not saying this is the case here (I haven't driven the car either), but it's typical of the situation. McLaren are well used to it after the SLR.
They know they've produced a good product, if they manage to hit their sales predictions then nothing else matters.
They know they've produced a good product, if they manage to hit their sales predictions then nothing else matters.
Everyone's covered it in this topic. McLaren are viewed as the clinical car company. Just look at their HQ but there's definitely a place for them and going on the reviews the 12C is one hell of a piece of kit.
For me, and I'm deadly serious, they need to loosen up on 2 things. Firstly the name they have chosen, whilst it fits with their image, functional, clinical etc it's a bit too clinical. I mean I actually kinda like where it's comi g from the whole thing does roll off the tongue "I drive a McLaren MP4" let's face it say McLaren F1 and most people get a tingle. But just needs a bit more emotion.
Secondly the logo looks like something out of Star Trek. I'm not saying stick a horse or a fast cat on the front of your car, but it is a bit pants.
Ofcourse some folk will reply what the hell are you talking about. But these things influence people's opions. But if I had the choice I'd 'just' pick the 12C over the 458......but I'd have a 430 in the garage for the weekend
For me, and I'm deadly serious, they need to loosen up on 2 things. Firstly the name they have chosen, whilst it fits with their image, functional, clinical etc it's a bit too clinical. I mean I actually kinda like where it's comi g from the whole thing does roll off the tongue "I drive a McLaren MP4" let's face it say McLaren F1 and most people get a tingle. But just needs a bit more emotion.
Secondly the logo looks like something out of Star Trek. I'm not saying stick a horse or a fast cat on the front of your car, but it is a bit pants.
Ofcourse some folk will reply what the hell are you talking about. But these things influence people's opions. But if I had the choice I'd 'just' pick the 12C over the 458......but I'd have a 430 in the garage for the weekend
I don't think Mclaren are being given anywhere near the credit they deserve for the car they built. It wasn't that long ago that everyone was banging on about how the 458 was a game changer, that it was quicker than an Enzo etc and now the first Mclaren in years comes along and destroys the Ferrari in every objective way - if I was the CEO of Ferrari I'd be embarrassed by that. But instead of singing its praises everyone is moaning that the Mac hasn't go enough soul, maybe Mclaren should make their next car a bit s
t just to please the hacks and keyboard warriors.
t just to please the hacks and keyboard warriors.
To be fair, the 458 is pretty dull and detached in a driving sense. Dont like all this new stuff and technology. not for the road especially.
All this technology has been designed for footballers that dont have a clue how to drive and want to show off how fast they can go.... but its the car thats doing the thinking for them.
I prefer to think for myself.... I'm going to start a petition against traction control!
All this technology has been designed for footballers that dont have a clue how to drive and want to show off how fast they can go.... but its the car thats doing the thinking for them.
I prefer to think for myself.... I'm going to start a petition against traction control!
All McLaren have to do, is ask any potential customer to drive their car on the road . . . .
For all the marketing crap about modern appliance grade Ferraris having soul (drive a proper Enzo era Ferrari for the real Maranello experience!) having been fortunate enough to have been in both, the 458 simply isn’t as good as the McLaren in the real world.
Yes the 458 seems more vocal and jittery than the McLaren, but as a car, to use on more than sunny days, Ron’s team have produced a car that’s stunningly quick, wont date as badly as the 458 and can be used every day.
Like many others, I no longer bother watching top gear, as it's more about entertaining the masses than objective journalism.
For all the marketing crap about modern appliance grade Ferraris having soul (drive a proper Enzo era Ferrari for the real Maranello experience!) having been fortunate enough to have been in both, the 458 simply isn’t as good as the McLaren in the real world.
Yes the 458 seems more vocal and jittery than the McLaren, but as a car, to use on more than sunny days, Ron’s team have produced a car that’s stunningly quick, wont date as badly as the 458 and can be used every day.
Like many others, I no longer bother watching top gear, as it's more about entertaining the masses than objective journalism.
I think with a hint of Zonda it could whop the Ferrari.
More redical styling and maybe a little more scary to drive.
No driver aids, windy windows, even just the central driving position would help it stand out from the ferrari.
It does look sooo bland - reminds me of those concept lotus's they released pics of a few months ago.
More redical styling and maybe a little more scary to drive.
No driver aids, windy windows, even just the central driving position would help it stand out from the ferrari.
It does look sooo bland - reminds me of those concept lotus's they released pics of a few months ago.
R500POP said:
hornetrider said:
Indeed. Make it break down a bit, set fire to one or two. You know - character.
Or, rather mistakenly, often referred to as "soul"I'd say McLaren have achieved exactly what they set out to do- a massively capable performance car that numerically destroys the opposition. The trouble is they don't seem to have taken into account that most of the people in the market for this car aren't going to spend most of their time pounding around circuits. From what I've read it's great at low speed and amazing at 10/10ths, but at 7.5/10ths (ie a spirited drive along your favourite moorland road) it jiggles on its air suspension and fails to involve the driver in the way a 458 or indeed Noble does. I'd rather it was stunning in these conditions and less good at "pottering to the shops"- let's be honest, if you can afford one of these you've probably got another car to do that. Like the Pulsar GTiR and NSX before it, it's fallen victim to being almost too good, thereby removing the driver from the equation. It's a device for covering ground as fast as possible, just like an F1 car. The Ferrari however is a machine to enjoy driving.
I'd agree about the syling and the name too. The first time I saw one I thought it was another rendering of the next Esprit and when I heard the name I thought it sounded too clinical. Which when I think about it seems to sum up the car for me.
I'd love a McLaren. I want to own a car with that badge more than I want one with a horse or bull on. I really want to desire one of these, but I don't. And that's a shame.
Frik said:
It's the nature of the beast if you work in the Automotive industry. You spend literally years working bloody hard to produce an excellent car, only for some journalist with a grudge to bear give you an inaccurate review which is then perpetuated by an army of armchair critics who have not even seen, let alone driven the car. Not saying this is the case here (I haven't driven the car either), but it's typical of the situation. McLaren are well used to it after the SLR.
They know they've produced a good product, if they manage to hit their sales predictions then nothing else matters.
They know they've produced a good product, if they manage to hit their sales predictions then nothing else matters.
those with the disposable income will be less inclined to blindly believe the press as gospelwould I have one?
I’d have to drive one against the 458 & GT2RS to decide
They way I see the MP4 is like McLarens version of a Carrera C2. It's their normal practical everyday model. The harder core GT3 variant is on the way. Yet this is still based on an entry level model. Then later on expect to see their no limits real supercar push north of 800bhp and (I hope) a more exciting overall package.
Car reviews do not equate to sales - look at the number of Peugeots on the road.
I bet that the Macca will outsell the Ferrari. If it proves reliable, I suspect it will make a better every-man, everyday supercar than the Ferrari. By that I mean, able to tick the comfy tourer / commuter box and the Sunday morning blat box and be usable by the average driver.
I bet that the Macca will outsell the Ferrari. If it proves reliable, I suspect it will make a better every-man, everyday supercar than the Ferrari. By that I mean, able to tick the comfy tourer / commuter box and the Sunday morning blat box and be usable by the average driver.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff