Anyone feel sorry for McLaren? What could they do different?
Discussion
I don't feel sorry for them at all, it will sell its just not a Ferrari, it probably won't sell globally but in the numbers McLaren will make they will sell them. Are they suprised by the reviews? I'd be happy they are being compared to Ferrari and are technically superior, Ferrari have spent decades and billions making a reputation for themselves and people who aspire to own a prancing horse McLaren would be stupid to think they could take that away from them and steal some of their custom.
I think they've been a little naive chasing lap times. The idea of a supercar that rides well and is usable on real public roads is very appealing to some of us (just waiting for the lottery win you understand). Perhaps they should have concentrated on this area.
The real naivity is perhaps going after Ferrari at all. I mean this is a bit like another Apple. People love the brand, and once you get that sort of emotion going on you can't hope to compete. All you can hope is that Ferrari drop the ball, and that doesn't look likely to me, they're making nice cars.
The real naivity is perhaps going after Ferrari at all. I mean this is a bit like another Apple. People love the brand, and once you get that sort of emotion going on you can't hope to compete. All you can hope is that Ferrari drop the ball, and that doesn't look likely to me, they're making nice cars.
scampbird said:
I think they've been a little naive chasing lap times. The idea of a supercar that rides well and is usable on real public roads is very appealing to some of us (just waiting for the lottery win you understand). Perhaps they should have concentrated on this area.
They have, the McLaren I had a go in, was far better on the road than the 458's I've been in.scampbird said:
I think they've been a little naive chasing lap times. The idea of a supercar that rides well and is usable on real public roads is very appealing to some of us (just waiting for the lottery win you understand). Perhaps they should have concentrated on this area.
The real naivity is perhaps going after Ferrari at all. I mean this is a bit like another Apple. People love the brand, and once you get that sort of emotion going on you can't hope to compete. All you can hope is that Ferrari drop the ball, and that doesn't look likely to me, they're making nice cars.
Did you miss Top Gear, one of the things they were most impressed with was the ride.The real naivity is perhaps going after Ferrari at all. I mean this is a bit like another Apple. People love the brand, and once you get that sort of emotion going on you can't hope to compete. All you can hope is that Ferrari drop the ball, and that doesn't look likely to me, they're making nice cars.
Honestly don't get the notion that McLaren as a brand has so much catching up to do compared to Ferrari. When I think Ferrari, I see a 'rent by the hour' red 348, or any amount of branded chav tat. McLaren - well the one time I saw an F1 in the wild (an orange GTR at the Eurotunnel terminal on its way to LM) will probably forever be etched in my memory... Of course this will change a bit when MP4-12s and whatever they make next will go through the motions on the market, but right now their road car history consists of the icon to end all icons.
scampbird said:
True, but then also raced round the track with a 458 "here's how you overtake a Ferrari" etc, then the amazing 3-seconds-a-lap faster (bulls
t).
EVERY single review has said that the Mclaren is a faster car than the Ferrari in every conceivable situation - road or track, drag race, whatever...t).It was also developed at the TG track so it's likely to work quite well there. The real diff. may not be that big - but rest assured that if your God is outright performance - measurable, graphable, timeable performance - the Mc wallops the Ferrari in every possible way.
The summary of people's opinions is that it lacks 'character' or 'charm' or 'excitement' which are non-measurable things and so that's where owners can make up their own minds
900T-R said:
Honestly don't get the notion that McLaren as a brand has so much catching up to do compared to Ferrari.
In terms of being a recognised brand for a roadcar - in terms of people looking at it an saying "look, that's a Mclaren" - they have a VAST distance to cover, it will take years - it will take more than 1 model - it will take posters on kid's bedroom walls and model cars and all that jazz...What's interesting is that Ferrari always claim their 'brand' and 'reputation' were built from racing - but Mclaren are every bit as successful in racing terms and they're starting from scratch here.
e.g. Ferrari's "brand" and "reputation" have as much to do with the halo-effect which comes from selling roadcars to the rich and famous as they do with 'motorsport' - they're value comes as much from being on posters as it does podiums...
The car is without a shadow of a doubt fantastic I am sure its put together very well and will do everything much better than the compitition.
However it doesn't make you go "Wow look at that!" same as the R8 really. The engine note also seemed to lack charactor and just sounded like any other V8 where as the 458 screams up to the red line and Lambo's have the howling V12. I know that this was designed to be the first of many new McLaren's so heres to hoping they do an LM spec car that looks like a GT3 car for the road!
However it doesn't make you go "Wow look at that!" same as the R8 really. The engine note also seemed to lack charactor and just sounded like any other V8 where as the 458 screams up to the red line and Lambo's have the howling V12. I know that this was designed to be the first of many new McLaren's so heres to hoping they do an LM spec car that looks like a GT3 car for the road!
Fittster said:
It's a sham that McLaren didn't dare try and come up with interesting design. It's the blandest of all supercars.
Unfortunately none of the manufactures in that sector seem to be willing to take a risk anymore.
The 458 has been widely praised for it's looks but I reckon it's a design which will date and date fast...Unfortunately none of the manufactures in that sector seem to be willing to take a risk anymore.
The Mc is nothing special - it's clearly designed around it's technology - but it won't date anything like as quickly.
The F1 wasn't anything special to look at way-back-when and it still isn't - but neither has it dated 1 iota.
The 355 is still the best looking production Ferrari in ages - the 360 looks dated, the 430 is even looking a bit jaded - I reckon the 458 will follow them.
You tend to gauge this better in-the-flesh where the Ferrari tends to look gaudy and "sudden" where the Mclaren just sits there looking - well - purposeful without wanting to brag about it
Daston said:
However it doesn't make you go "Wow look at that!" same as the R8 really.
I thought the R8 looked like a big TT - until I saw one on the move where you'd never ever make that mistake.The only problem with the R8 is that owners seem to have poor choices of colourscheme - with "blades" which look like Halfords add-ons. Get the right combo tho and the R8 stands out every bit as much as a Gallardo - possibly more.
If you really want to stand-out you've always had to buy the next-car-up tho - poster-boy looks come from the Murci/Avent/Enzo bracket
Generally speaking thought, Clarkson cannot do impartial comparisons.
He will always pick a ferrari over any other car.
430 Scuderia vs GT3RS is the perfect example. The said: I don't like gadgetry, I like mechanical things. And then went on to say despite the horrific difference in price for two cars with nigh on identical performance, he'd have the expensive techy ferrari.
At the moment I have very little faith in anything he says, I remember him slating the RS5 "because he thought it would be a modern version of the quattro". It was never going to be anything like it and he couldn't stop holding this against it.
Basically, The Mclaren is the superior car. But clarkson likes ferraris. So he said he thinks the ferrari is better.
Oh and he is obsessed with 'soul'. He even wrote a book called 'I know you got soul' where he banged on about various things that have 'soul'. Frankly, soul is not something that every version of a model of car inherently has. Soul is something that individual cars develop over a period of time with an owner.
So to summarise: stop listening to Clarkson!
He will always pick a ferrari over any other car.
430 Scuderia vs GT3RS is the perfect example. The said: I don't like gadgetry, I like mechanical things. And then went on to say despite the horrific difference in price for two cars with nigh on identical performance, he'd have the expensive techy ferrari.
At the moment I have very little faith in anything he says, I remember him slating the RS5 "because he thought it would be a modern version of the quattro". It was never going to be anything like it and he couldn't stop holding this against it.
Basically, The Mclaren is the superior car. But clarkson likes ferraris. So he said he thinks the ferrari is better.
Oh and he is obsessed with 'soul'. He even wrote a book called 'I know you got soul' where he banged on about various things that have 'soul'. Frankly, soul is not something that every version of a model of car inherently has. Soul is something that individual cars develop over a period of time with an owner.
So to summarise: stop listening to Clarkson!
I think it would have been unwise for MacLaren to try to compete with Ferrari in the 'soul' stakes, and they knew this full well. They have aimed for a different end of the market- one for people interested in technology and engineering. Those who buy a car for what it can do rather than how it makes them look.
'Soul' is a bit of a grey area anyway. How do you define it? Can you engineer it? Is it the same for everyone? I doubt it. Is soul being a bit unpredictable, or is it the sensation that the car reads your mind? Both could be the right answer.
Personally, 'soul' is the last thing I'd look for when buying a car anyway. The MacLaren is top of my list for the next lottery win, and I'm sure we'll soon see it's at the top of plenty of other people's too. I certainly don't feel sorry for it. For every Ferrari fan, there's another man that doesn't 'get' them.
'Soul' is a bit of a grey area anyway. How do you define it? Can you engineer it? Is it the same for everyone? I doubt it. Is soul being a bit unpredictable, or is it the sensation that the car reads your mind? Both could be the right answer.
Personally, 'soul' is the last thing I'd look for when buying a car anyway. The MacLaren is top of my list for the next lottery win, and I'm sure we'll soon see it's at the top of plenty of other people's too. I certainly don't feel sorry for it. For every Ferrari fan, there's another man that doesn't 'get' them.
hornetrider said:
R500POP said:
So far as I can see from the road tests, the only way to make it a 458 rival is to make it a bit less good.
Indeed. Make it break down a bit, set fire to one or two. You know - character.This reminds me a bit of the 996TT versus Ferrari 360. Porsche probably better in every single measurable way but I know which one I'd prefer to spank through Glen Coe.
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