Anyone feel sorry for McLaren? What could they do different?
Discussion
GreigM said:
Its early days - the car is phenomenally quick in road trim - wait until the racing versions are being used in anger and its setting new records at every track its taken to - thats what gives the car soul/prestige/provenance.
The F1 suffered from the same comments too - "too clinical" etc and look how well its weathered compared to the F40.
my next door neighbor will be racing one soon enough so will keep you posted! The F1 suffered from the same comments too - "too clinical" etc and look how well its weathered compared to the F40.
johnpeat said:
In terms of being a recognised brand for a roadcar - in terms of people looking at it an saying "look, that's a Mclaren" - they have a VAST distance to cover, it will take years - it will take more than 1 model - it will take posters on kid's bedroom walls and model cars and all that jazz...
But familiarity breeds contempt. A red Ferrari is erm... clichéd, sort of low-rent even. You can bet that everywhere when there's something 'about cars' going on, you'll see one, or half a dozen. Approachable yes, aspirational - hmmm, not really.Also I don't see any 700 page 'xxxxx - is this your Ferrari?' threads...
In my eyes Ferrari have an image problem, I have to be carefull what I say here as some good friends of ours have a rether lovely F360, which I adore, but I don't think I would every buy one.
Many people see a Ferrari & think "tosser" or "midlife crisis", not understanding the owner may have actually bought it because he likes the way the car drives, not because it's a Ferrari & therefore a fanny magnet.
I think the McLaren, because it's a more somber car, will suffer less stereotyping of the owners.
Many people see a Ferrari & think "tosser" or "midlife crisis", not understanding the owner may have actually bought it because he likes the way the car drives, not because it's a Ferrari & therefore a fanny magnet.
I think the McLaren, because it's a more somber car, will suffer less stereotyping of the owners.
All this stuff about the Mclaren destroying the 458, hasn't it only beaten the 458 at one track , with the Mclaren chief test driver at wheel(probably) , at the Mclaren test track on a totally different day to the one on which the 458 ran?
If they'd been run at fiorano with dario benuzzi at the wheel you lot would cry foul.
If they'd been run at fiorano with dario benuzzi at the wheel you lot would cry foul.
ZeeTacoe said:
All this stuff about the Mclaren destroying the 458, hasn't it only beaten the 458 at one track , with the Mclaren chief test driver at wheel(probably) , at the Mclaren test track on a totally different day to the one on which the 458 ran?
If they'd been run at fiorano with dario benuzzi at the wheel you lot would cry foul.
Not really, the Mac would probably be quicker........If they'd been run at fiorano with dario benuzzi at the wheel you lot would cry foul.
ZeeTacoe said:
All this stuff about the Mclaren destroying the 458, hasn't it only beaten the 458 at one track , with the Mclaren chief test driver at wheel(probably) , at the Mclaren test track on a totally different day to the one on which the 458 ran?
If they'd been run at fiorano with dario benuzzi at the wheel you lot would cry foul.
Three seconds is a life time on that track, it completely and utterly destroyed the Ferrari - the techonology is in another league.If they'd been run at fiorano with dario benuzzi at the wheel you lot would cry foul.
Presuming Ed said:
The biggest issue however appears to be confidence in turning in to a corner as the Mcl offers zero feedback from the wheel. The Ferrari by comparison is alive with information being delivered through the wheel and the seat of your pants. These areas where the Ferrari excel are hard to quantify so they end up being described as soul/zing etc and people then think this is just a pro Italian anti Mcl thing.
/\/\/\/\/\/\This is rubbish. I have driven both and there is a phenomenal level of feedback from the 12C. It's the only car in its class with truely, fully independent suspension at each wheel and coupled with a super-stiff/strong carbon-monocoque chassis, it's able to be both compliant when driven moderately and gives jedi-levels of feedback when you're going off like a stabbed rat.
It was the same issue when the Nissan GT-R was first released. I remember everyone moaning it was 'too digital' and 'not analogue' enough - that it didn't have that 'something/zing/passion/soul' that Italian Exotics are meant to have.
The reviews of the long-term GT-Rs though are very different. They say it takes a while to get into your system, to understand how the car reacts, to get to know it. I think thats the issue with the McLaren - 'it's a grow-er, not a show-er'.
Having driven the GT-R I completely understand how it would leave you cold after a few hours behind the wheel, but over a longer period, I can see how it would start to grow on you.
My daily driver is an E55 AMG - mentally quick but left me cold after a few days driving, Now I'v had it for 7 months, I love it - because I know how it reacts, it's weaknesses, it's strengths. Ferrari's have an immediate emotional impact, but other cars have to grow on you.
I think we'll be looking back in 10 years and all describing the McLaren as a landmark - as we will the GT-R. The 458 is just another (desirable) Ferrari....
The reviews of the long-term GT-Rs though are very different. They say it takes a while to get into your system, to understand how the car reacts, to get to know it. I think thats the issue with the McLaren - 'it's a grow-er, not a show-er'.
Having driven the GT-R I completely understand how it would leave you cold after a few hours behind the wheel, but over a longer period, I can see how it would start to grow on you.
My daily driver is an E55 AMG - mentally quick but left me cold after a few days driving, Now I'v had it for 7 months, I love it - because I know how it reacts, it's weaknesses, it's strengths. Ferrari's have an immediate emotional impact, but other cars have to grow on you.
I think we'll be looking back in 10 years and all describing the McLaren as a landmark - as we will the GT-R. The 458 is just another (desirable) Ferrari....
sleep envy said:
Fittster said:
It's a sham that McLaren didn't dare try and come up with interesting design. It's the blandest of all supercars.
but isn't that the ethos of McL Group companies? technology that works but isn't in your face?It's not as if dull but competent sportscars have a great economic track record. You can start a thread on here about the NSX. People will say how great it is but no one actually bought them.
Edited by Fittster on Tuesday 12th July 14:17
johnpeat said:
scampbird said:
True, but then also raced round the track with a 458 "here's how you overtake a Ferrari" etc, then the amazing 3-seconds-a-lap faster (bulls
t).
EVERY single review has said that the Mclaren is a faster car than the Ferrari in every conceivable situation - road or track, drag race, whatever...t).It was also developed at the TG track so it's likely to work quite well there. The real diff. may not be that big - but rest assured that if your God is outright performance - measurable, graphable, timeable performance - the Mc wallops the Ferrari in every possible way.
The summary of people's opinions is that it lacks 'character' or 'charm' or 'excitement' which are non-measurable things and so that's where owners can make up their own minds
What reviews have you read that say it's faster in every situation?
300bhp/ton said:
Forgetting all this...
I can't be the only one who thought the Macca looked fab in that yellow colour on TG?
I thought it looked pretty good too. I must admit it's looks are growing on me but it still looks plain-jane next to the 458 and Gallardo. Those rear lights look rather 80's too.I can't be the only one who thought the Macca looked fab in that yellow colour on TG?
GreigM said:
The F1 suffered from the same comments too - "too clinical" etc and look how well its weathered compared to the F40.
All true, and I'm a big fan of the F1, but I would pretty much do ANYTHING to get my hands on an F40.A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G
As has been pointed out by numerous people, probably something to do with the F40 being available in poster-form from just about every car magazine at the time, or maybe even due to having been lucky enough to get a passenger ride in one when I was a kid, but whenever I see one of them something just stirs inside me. IMO one of the most striking car designs ever put to paper, awesome-sounding, and a fair turn of performance to boot.
The F1, whilst technically brilliant, and still good-looking to be fair, just doesn't stir up the same sort of emotions when I see one.
I should point out that I'm not particularly a fan of Ferraris, and other than the F40 and the F355 I can take 'em or leave 'em, so I hope this can be taken as an unbiased/objective opinion (so far as any opinion can be objective!)
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