RE: New Stratos Production On Hold...For now
Discussion
DiscoColin said:
Hmm - sounds like the same story as Mr Glickenhaus' lovely P4/5 Competizione - Fezza killjoys trying to block people from making derivatives that are better to behold than most if not all of their official production models with a strict policy of unique models only. The only things I like about Ferrari as it currently is are the 458 racing car and that they stopped team-order Horner from winning another race at the weekend.
Didn't they also help kill off the Cizeta by stopping the supply of engine parts from a 3rd party who also supplied Ferrari ?OdramaSwimLaden said:
Another reason why I hate Ferrari.
ME TOO !!!These Ferrari people just are bloody b
ds. First they make a fuzz about the brilliant Glickenhaus P4/5 and now they make difficulties to build a new STRATOS very well worth to revive the LANCIA brand! Why they did not do it? There was time enough!
I hope Schtoschek will make it independently! Well done the effort. He deserves to succeed.
Mikeyboy said:
B10 said:
Alfa 8C - Ferrari based
All new Maseratis - Ferrari based
What is wrong with the Stratos being Ferrari based? The original had the Dino engine. So Fiat please exert some pressure on Ferrari. This Stratos would be a great halo product for the Lancia marque.
Problem with that is that within the FIAT empire Lancia are no longer the sporting brand, Alfa is.All new Maseratis - Ferrari based
What is wrong with the Stratos being Ferrari based? The original had the Dino engine. So Fiat please exert some pressure on Ferrari. This Stratos would be a great halo product for the Lancia marque.
To equate roughly to VW's brands:
Alfa is Audi/Porsche
Fiat is VW/skoda
Maserati is Porsche
Lancia is the brand they don't know what to do with. At best its high end VW, but it doesn't sell outside of the continent so there is no real reason to risk your best brand by building a halo for a company that no-one in the US can remember.
Oh dear Ferrari dont want PF to build the something that people actually want. Surely this is un competitive practice in europe one company telling another not to build something.
I mean it is a Lancia Stratos replica using ferrari running gear. Has Montezemelo forgotten the Lancia Thema 8.32 with 308 engine
At least this stratos looks great .
Jeez what harm will it do to Ferrari?
I mean it is a Lancia Stratos replica using ferrari running gear. Has Montezemelo forgotten the Lancia Thema 8.32 with 308 engine
At least this stratos looks great .
Jeez what harm will it do to Ferrari?
Pistachio said:
Oh dear Ferrari dont want PF to build the something that people actually want. Surely this is un competitive practice in europe one company telling another not to build something.
I mean it is a Lancia Stratos replica using ferrari running gear. Has Montezemelo forgotten the Lancia Thema 8.32 with 328 engine
At least this stratos looks great .
Jeez what harm will it do to Ferrari?
EFA I mean it is a Lancia Stratos replica using ferrari running gear. Has Montezemelo forgotten the Lancia Thema 8.32 with 328 engine
At least this stratos looks great .
Jeez what harm will it do to Ferrari?
Slippydiff said:
Pistachio said:
Oh dear Ferrari dont want PF to build the something that people actually want. Surely this is un competitive practice in europe one company telling another not to build something.
I mean it is a Lancia Stratos replica using ferrari running gear. Has Montezemelo forgotten the Lancia Thema 8.32 with 328 engine
At least this stratos looks great .
Jeez what harm will it do to Ferrari?
EFA I mean it is a Lancia Stratos replica using ferrari running gear. Has Montezemelo forgotten the Lancia Thema 8.32 with 328 engine
At least this stratos looks great .
Jeez what harm will it do to Ferrari?
Insight said:
I'm being rather sceptical here, but: I wonder if Ferrari really did say no or if this is just an excuse by the people behind the Stratos project to not take it any further due to lack of interest. If they really had the orders, I don't see it being that hard to produce the car with somebody else (Coventry Prototype Panels for example) and I also don't see anything official from Ferrari in this press release at all - it's not like anyone at Ferrari has been quoted. Besides, people rip off Ferrari's all the time with MR2 kit cars so this is not that different to that.
A friend of mine who lives in Italy told me that Ferrari has been calling the Italian newspapers to say they didn't block this at all. Seems that even if they wanted to, they couldn't provide the 360/430 chassis because they don't make those cars any more and, compared to the 458, it's old technology. He also pointed out that the production line on which the 360/430 were made has been dismantled to make way for the new line with the California and 458. I guess that means the only way this will happen if the guy goes and buys used 430 Scuds and converts them himself. Sounds to me like this guy has invested a load of money in something which he now can't deliver and is blaming Ferrari for being killjoys.Also, does this guy actually own the rights to the Lancia brand? Last time I looked, it was part of the Fiat empire...
Interesting to see everyone jump on the anti-Ferrari bandwagon without looking at the facts.
Of cousre ferrari will try to act like they didnt block it but of course I guruntee if i rolled up in my 360 and said give it the stratos treatment they wouldn't due to ferrari pressure. They make lovely looking and sounding cars but clearly better can be had for less and like any bully their fear is based on insecurity. I love many of their cars but they are lame not that it really matters as I doubt these would be seen let alone driven by most car nuts so all they did here was buy poor pr.
In the US when a customer owned ferrari has its azz handed to it by something that can be bought a a domestic dealership they ban those journalist from obtaining Ferrari demos in the future.
In the US when a customer owned ferrari has its azz handed to it by something that can be bought a a domestic dealership they ban those journalist from obtaining Ferrari demos in the future.
Auburn852 said:
A friend of mine who lives in Italy told me that Ferrari has been calling the Italian newspapers to say they didn't block this at all. Seems that even if they wanted to, they couldn't provide the 360/430 chassis because they don't make those cars any more...
Ah - perhaps this is where Rebekah Brooks has gone then as that would appear to be entirely spin. The story has nothing to do with Ferrari actually supplying anything : the cars were to be built from existing donor 360 or 430s, not new components. The line is that Ferrari has declined to endorse Pininfarina or any other Ferrari supplier producing the car (historically this is on pain of having all Ferrari supply contracts pulled when such an edict is made).Consequently, if Ferrari is true to this claim that they are making that they are not impeding the project then that would mean that Pininfarina are free to commence turning customers' 430s into the new Stratos forthwith for a limited run as authorized by the guy who commissioned the car (and IIRC retains the IP rights to it). Incidentally - the car was not created as part of a plan to offer it to other people (it was conceived as a one-off much as Jim Glickenhaus' P4/5) : that was an afterthought after a lot of prospective buyers stepped forward begging to be liberated of a large bale of cash...
Anyway - if production happens then Ferrari are being genuine and if it doesn't they are full of prancing horse
t. Simples Edited by DiscoColin on Friday 15th July 23:31
DiscoColin said:
Anyway - if production happens then Ferrari are being genuine and if it doesn't they are full of prancing horset. Simples
You seem to have missed the point entirely. Ferrari is claiming that, even if they wanted to, they can't provide 360/430 chassis/engine running gear because they've dismantled the production line used to make those cars when they put in the new line for the California and 458.t. Simples Edited by DiscoColin on Friday 15th July 23:31
There's nothing to stop this guy buying used 360/430s from dealers and converting them himself if he really wants to - isn't that what Novitec, Mansoury and all the others do? Why should this be any different?
Auburn852 said:
You seem to have missed the point entirely. Ferrari is claiming that, even if they wanted to, they can't provide 360/430 chassis/engine running gear because they've dismantled the production line used to make those cars when they put in the new line for the California and 458.
There's nothing to stop this guy buying used 360/430s from dealers and converting them himself if he really wants to - isn't that what Novitec, Mansoury and all the others do? Why should this be any different?
See the previous post - Ferrari has a history of 'punishing' its suppliers who get involved in this type of thingThere's nothing to stop this guy buying used 360/430s from dealers and converting them himself if he really wants to - isn't that what Novitec, Mansoury and all the others do? Why should this be any different?
MartG said:
See the previous post - Ferrari has a history of 'punishing' its suppliers who get involved in this type of thing
Regardless. You've still missed the point. Read Auto Express this week: FERRARI NO LONGER HAS THE PRODUCTION LINE ON WHICH THEY WOULD NEED TO BUILD THE 430/360 CARS THIS GUYS WANTS TO USE!They also point out that the 430/360 is "defunct" technology - i.e. old cars.
Auburn852 said:
MartG said:
See the previous post - Ferrari has a history of 'punishing' its suppliers who get involved in this type of thing
Regardless. You've still missed the point. Read Auto Express this week: FERRARI NO LONGER HAS THE PRODUCTION LINE ON WHICH THEY WOULD NEED TO BUILD THE 430/360 CARS THIS GUYS WANTS TO USE!They also point out that the 430/360 is "defunct" technology - i.e. old cars.
Pistachio said:
But the idea is that you bring maybe your old one to them or maybe Ferrari are more interested in 458's being chopped up for it instead of 430's maybe..what ever if they had the balls they would do it as there is a market for a small run. It is do able..
I'm not denying there is a market for a limited run and that the basic concept is certainly worthwhile and exciting. I was just relaying what a friend of mine in Italy told me had been communicated by Ferrari there.Can't remember what the cost was going to be, but remember it being in the 000s of £0000s.
What's wrong with one of these instead?
http://www.hawkcars.co.uk/hf3000/index.html
Engine options include a Ferrari 3.0 QV engine, or some Alfa V6 options.
Auburn852 said:
Regardless. You've still missed the point. Read Auto Express this week: FERRARI NO LONGER HAS THE PRODUCTION LINE ON WHICH THEY WOULD NEED TO BUILD THE 430/360 CARS THIS GUYS WANTS TO USE!
They also point out that the 430/360 is "defunct" technology - i.e. old cars.
No - you have completely missed the point. Ferrari were never asked to supply anything. Pininfarina asked Ferrari if it would sanction Pininfarina turning customer's existing donor cars into new Stratos'. Ferrari said no. Pininfarina will not be doing this as a consequence. Neither will any other company that supplies Ferrari. They also point out that the 430/360 is "defunct" technology - i.e. old cars.
The "this guy" to which you refer never planned to make any more than his one unique car - it was never a commercial venture as you seem to be implying that you think it was. The prospect of there being more was a result of prospective customers asking Pininfarina to make them one. Pininfarina asked "this guy" (having commissioned the original, he owned the rights to the design) and he said okay. They then asked Ferrari if it would be an issue and are alleged to have been told: depends whether you ever want to design another car for us. Your contention that "There's nothing to stop this guy buying used 360/430s from dealers and converting them himself" is the ultimate flawed premise in that he doesn't want to build anything. Prospective customers want Pininfarina to build them one - using exactly that - used 360 or 430 chassis and drivetrains. They - however - won't unless it is cool with Ferrari, and this would appear very much to be the situation.
The Ferrari press position that they couldn't supply chassis is simply spin to deflect the tifosi from the small matter of this having nothing whatsoever to do with the proposal, which required nothing more of the prancing horse (and presumably stablemate brand Lancia) than a lack of objection to an iconic halo model that they wouldn't even need to pay to develop. The only major losers in this are anyone and everyone who would like to see more of these cars in existence, and of course all of the rich people who begged Pininfarina to make them one
Edited by DiscoColin on Thursday 21st July 20:11
Edited by DiscoColin on Thursday 21st July 20:13
DiscoColin said:
No - you have completely missed the point. Ferrari were never asked to supply anything. Pininfarina asked Ferrari if it would sanction Pininfarina turning customer's existing donor cars into new Stratos'. Ferrari said no. Pininfarina will not be doing this as a consequence. Neither will any other company that supplies Ferrari.
The "this guy" to which you refer never planned to make any more than his one unique car - it was never a commercial venture as you seem to be implying that you think it was. The prospect of there being more was a result of prospective customers asking Pininfarina to make them one. Pininfarina asked "this guy" (having commissioned the original, he owned the rights to the design) and he said okay. They then asked Ferrari if it would be an issue and are alleged to have been told: depends whether you ever want to design another car for us. Your contention that "There's nothing to stop this guy buying used 360/430s from dealers and converting them himself" is the ultimate flawed premise in that he doesn't want to build anything. Prospective customers want Pininfarina to build them one - using exactly that - used 360 or 430 chassis and drivetrains. They - however - won't unless it is cool with Ferrari, and this would appear very much to be the situation.
The Ferrari press position that they couldn't supply chassis is simply spin to deflect the tifosi from the small matter of this having nothing whatsoever to do with the proposal, which required nothing more of the prancing horse (and presumably stablemate brand Lancia) than a lack of objection to an iconic halo model that they wouldn't even need to pay to develop. The only major losers in this are anyone and everyone who would like to see more of these cars in existence, and of course all of the rich people who begged Pininfarina to make them one
Apart from the first sentence, I completely agree with your first para. And your second para - apart from the flawed premise bit, because if he wanted to do it, he could go out and buy the cars from the dealers and convert them himself. The premise itself is not flawed. I could go and buy 40 such cars and rebody them if I was so inclined. And, if you read the statement on his website, he clearly was so inclined, so you're a little off on suggesting this is a flawed premise.The "this guy" to which you refer never planned to make any more than his one unique car - it was never a commercial venture as you seem to be implying that you think it was. The prospect of there being more was a result of prospective customers asking Pininfarina to make them one. Pininfarina asked "this guy" (having commissioned the original, he owned the rights to the design) and he said okay. They then asked Ferrari if it would be an issue and are alleged to have been told: depends whether you ever want to design another car for us. Your contention that "There's nothing to stop this guy buying used 360/430s from dealers and converting them himself" is the ultimate flawed premise in that he doesn't want to build anything. Prospective customers want Pininfarina to build them one - using exactly that - used 360 or 430 chassis and drivetrains. They - however - won't unless it is cool with Ferrari, and this would appear very much to be the situation.
The Ferrari press position that they couldn't supply chassis is simply spin to deflect the tifosi from the small matter of this having nothing whatsoever to do with the proposal, which required nothing more of the prancing horse (and presumably stablemate brand Lancia) than a lack of objection to an iconic halo model that they wouldn't even need to pay to develop. The only major losers in this are anyone and everyone who would like to see more of these cars in existence, and of course all of the rich people who begged Pininfarina to make them one
Edited by DiscoColin on Thursday 21st July 20:11
Edited by DiscoColin on Thursday 21st July 20:13
And, with regards to the last para. Well, you definitely have missed my point: that Ferrari are saying the couldn't provide these cars even if they wanted to, because they no longer have the production line on which these cars are built. That is a fact. Next time you're in Maranello, ask to see the line where they still make the 360s and 430s and then you'll see my point. Or, rather, Ferrari's.
Totally agree with last part of the last para though. The only losers here are the car enthusiasts like thee and me who would love nothing more than to see this car on the road.
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