Give me one good reason...
Discussion
JohnMR said:
Chrisw666 said:
Well the very fact that the main driver won't actually be the main driver is breaking the terms and conditions that the policy has been taken out under. So if you have an accident the insurer will refuse to pay out.
How would an insurer prove that? There is just no way they could.
While I don't agree with posts like this or fraud in general. It does amuse me how holier than thou the majority of Pistonheaders are. Whereas in reality I wonder how many don't actually have a garage, or go over their entitled mileage, or do commute to work daily and use for business. Or have even used fronting in the past. I bet an anonymous poll would yield some interesting results.
Get off your pedestals.
Get off your pedestals.
chrisispringles said:
They could prove otherwise:
If your relative has a car of their own, then the chances are they have little insurable interest in the car that you are a named driver on.
If the car was bought around the time you passed your test then that suggests that the car was bought for your use and not your relative's.
They can ask to see CCTV footage from your school or workplace or ask how you get there, if they say that you drive in then you are driving the car more often than the relative, so you are almost definitely fronting the insurance.
I'm 17 and by no way an expert in the insurance industry, yet I could prove beyond reasonable doubt that you were fronting, so think what a team of specialists could manage.
It's ok they'll never catch him out.If your relative has a car of their own, then the chances are they have little insurable interest in the car that you are a named driver on.
If the car was bought around the time you passed your test then that suggests that the car was bought for your use and not your relative's.
They can ask to see CCTV footage from your school or workplace or ask how you get there, if they say that you drive in then you are driving the car more often than the relative, so you are almost definitely fronting the insurance.
I'm 17 and by no way an expert in the insurance industry, yet I could prove beyond reasonable doubt that you were fronting, so think what a team of specialists could manage.
he'll probably have a k&n filter and massive backbox too that goes undeclared as they'll never know.
As it is common for middle aged mothers to drive little hatchbacks with exhausts....
He'll just say he only drives it once a month, despite having cctv of him parked at mcdonalds while he's at work.
And he'll say the £60 he puts in petrol every week is for his mum....
Jimmy No Hands said:
While I don't agree with posts like this or fraud in general. It does amuse me how holier than thou the majority of Pistonheaders are. Whereas in reality I wonder how many don't actually have a garage, or go over their entitled mileage, or do commute to work daily and use for business. Or have even used fronting in the past. I bet an anonymous poll would yield some interesting results.
Get off your pedestals.
While it's easy to preach behind a keyboard.Get off your pedestals.
It's not holier than thou to be honest with the insurer, I'm obsessed with cars I own, and don't want to find myself in a bad situation where I'm left without a pay out if the worst happens.
It's not as though I'm sitting here preaching that I never speed, and I never swear, and how I help old ladies across the road, and go to africa and help sick kids.
It's not hard to be totally honest with car insurance, they aren't trick questions they ask you, and I don't declare everything because I'm such a good citizen, it's because I don't want to give them an excuse to not pay out.
I'm doing it for MYSELF not the insurance company....
oh and lying about owning a garage is absolutely stupid, that won't be hard to prove will it
Jimmy No Hands said:
While I don't agree with posts like this or fraud in general. It does amuse me how holier than thou the majority of Pistonheaders are. Whereas in reality I wonder how many don't actually have a garage, or go over their entitled mileage, or do commute to work daily and use for business. Or have even used fronting in the past. I bet an anonymous poll would yield some interesting results.
Get off your pedestals.
Who uses a car for business, commuting daily, or keeps it somewhere else and lies about it?Get off your pedestals.
Jimmy No Hands said:
While I don't agree with posts like this or fraud in general. It does amuse me how holier than thou the majority of Pistonheaders are. Whereas in reality I wonder how many don't actually have a garage, or go over their entitled mileage, or do commute to work daily and use for business. Or have even used fronting in the past. I bet an anonymous poll would yield some interesting results.
Get off your pedestals.
Mmm, the irony is strong in this one.Get off your pedestals.
Chrisw666 said:
Who uses a car for business, commuting daily, or keeps it somewhere else and lies about it?
I don't agree with his post at all about preaching.I'd understand if it was a thread about speeding and people were preaching, as everyone speeds at some point in their life or does an illegal u turn, or stops on double yellows.
But being honest with the insurer isn't difficult and benefits you in the event of a claim.
Lying about mileage is stupid too, "oh yeah I do 8000 a year"
They check mot certificates and see 25000 in the last year....
The reason all this insurance stuff f
ks me off is because I pay an arm and a leg on my insurance with everything declared and s either don't have insurance or lie to get cheaper insurance, it ain't fair.JohnMR said:
Seems simple to me and something that younger drivers should take advantage of. Hence why I'm asking, what is the downside?
The downside is that your insurance will not be valid and you will be committing fraud, which is a fairly serious criminal offence. You will also be being a selfish idiot because you'll push up the insurance costs for everyone else. Presumably you have no problems with committing other kinds of fraud either?
kambites said:
The downside is that your insurance will not be valid and you will be committing fraud, which is a fairly serious criminal offence. You will also be being a selfish idiot because you'll push up the insurance costs for everyone else.
I think by downside, he means deterrant, or "what's the worst that can happen"That's the problem with this country, there's no deterrant, what's the worst that will happen?
It's like people who drive with no insurance, wow points and a fine, no problem it was cheaper than the premium so RESULT.....
johnnyBv8 said:
Because it's insurance fraud/theft. You're obviously a high risk (compared to your relative at least). It's no different to me going into a shop, buying a 24" B&W TV but then putting it down and walking out the shop with a 42" plasma screen - I'd be taking something I haven't paid for. Muppet.
Im not sure if Bowers and Wilkins make a 24" tv, but if they did Id have it over some stty plasma any day of the week 
pops and bangs said:
The reason all this insurance stuff fks me off is because I pay an arm and a leg on my insurance with everything declared and s either don't have insurance or lie to get cheaper insurance, it ain't fair.
I agree with you. ks me off is because I pay an arm and a leg on my insurance with everything declared and s either don't have insurance or lie to get cheaper insurance, it ain't fair.Every person lying or cheating their way through the system is probably likely to be the same people pushing premiums higher. If someone is happy to lie to save £100 they are likely to not give a toss about their driving and to try and claim £6000 for mental anguish if someone bumps them at 5mph in Tesco.
pops and bangs said:
It's like people who drive with no insurance, wow points and a fine, no problem it was cheaper than the premium so RESULT.....
It's not like people who drive with no insurance, it is driving with no insurance. In fact it's worse because it's driving with no insurance and fraud. Chrisw666 said:
I agree with you.
Every person lying or cheating their way through the system is probably likely to be the same people pushing premiums higher. If someone is happy to lie to save £100 they are likely to not give a toss about their driving and to try and claim £6000 for mental anguish if someone bumps them at 5mph in Tesco.
Yeah exactly, "Ooh whiplash for £2000 you say"Every person lying or cheating their way through the system is probably likely to be the same people pushing premiums higher. If someone is happy to lie to save £100 they are likely to not give a toss about their driving and to try and claim £6000 for mental anguish if someone bumps them at 5mph in Tesco.
The increase in premiums doesn't even affect them, as they only do 3000 miles a year, have it garaged, and are in a good postcode, and they don't use it for commuting.
"It's ok the insurance can never prove I do 15000 miles a year, drive to work, and don't even own a garage...."
kambites said:
It's not like people who drive with no insurance, it is driving with no insurance. In fact it's worse because it's driving with no insurance and fraud.
I agree with you, but in their mind they are better than those that take no insurance at all.Even though technically it's the same as no insurance as your insurance is void.
But the bonus is the anpr cameras don't catch them as they are "legit innit"
Anyway I'll get off my pedestal and back to helping out the third world countries, and just being a perfect citizen....
Jimmy No Hands said:
While I don't agree with posts like this or fraud in general. It does amuse me how holier than thou the majority of Pistonheaders are. Whereas in reality I wonder how many don't actually have a garage, or go over their entitled mileage, or do commute to work daily and use for business. Or have even used fronting in the past. I bet an anonymous poll would yield some interesting results.
Get off your pedestals.
Keeping a car in the garage is usually more expensive than the street or driveway, though - not likely people are going to lie about that one. Also, most insurance is 'social and commuting' - which amazingly enough includes commuting. You don't need 'business use' for commuting. Get off your pedestals.
The holier than thou of us usually act that way because we didn't front - we're angry about it because we feel like we've been punished for doing things the right way, because we've paid more than the scum who will front.
You keep lashing out because you can't accept that what you've done is wrong, though - it really makes your arguments credible.
Meoricin said:
The holier than thou of us usually act that way because we didn't front - we're angry about it because we feel like we've been punished for doing things the right way, because we've paid more than the scum who will front.
Yeah I was amazed when at a car meet, I mentioned the price of my insurance with mods, and I was told "You're a mug, no one declared mods mate, just replace them when you crash"pops and bangs said:
Yeah exactly, "Ooh whiplash for £2000 you say"
The increase in premiums doesn't even affect them, as they only do 3000 miles a year, have it garaged, and are in a good postcode, and they don't use it for commuting.
"It's ok the insurance can never prove I do 15000 miles a year, drive to work, and don't even own a garage...."
I think thats the biggest reason people do it. The worst case scenario is a crash. And people are ignorant to that under the guise "It won't happen to me, I'll be careful."The increase in premiums doesn't even affect them, as they only do 3000 miles a year, have it garaged, and are in a good postcode, and they don't use it for commuting.
"It's ok the insurance can never prove I do 15000 miles a year, drive to work, and don't even own a garage...."
Yet when stopped by the police, or caught by an ANPR or something, they are insured.
It's TOO easy. If it was clamped down on properly and the penalties were severe, it wouldn't happen. But as it stands the majority of people doing it probably won't encounter a problem in doing so.
So as premiums are pushed higher due to fraudulent claims, more people are going to turn to methods such as fronting, thus fueling the whole reason insurance is so expensive in the first place. It's just a catch 22.
As you say, a proper deterrent would help. Maybe an instant five year ban or something? And if they're caught driving while banned, a jail term. Meoricin said:
Keeping a car in the garage is usually more expensive than the street or driveway, though - not likely people are going to lie about that one. Also, most insurance is 'social and commuting' - which amazingly enough includes commuting. You don't need 'business use' for commuting.
The holier than thou of us usually act that way because we didn't front - we're angry about it because we feel like we've been punished for doing things the right way, because we've paid more than the scum who will front.
You keep lashing out because you can't accept that what you've done is wrong, though - it really makes your arguments credible.
What I've done? I said initially I didn't agree with it, and I'm certainly not guilty of it myself. The holier than thou of us usually act that way because we didn't front - we're angry about it because we feel like we've been punished for doing things the right way, because we've paid more than the scum who will front.
You keep lashing out because you can't accept that what you've done is wrong, though - it really makes your arguments credible.
I just like to stir the pot.
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