RE: Driven: Lotus Evora GT4

[braddo]

The Wookie said:

This is an out and out race car rather than a special edition and, as it says in the article, it sells for £125k. There are plenty of them being raced competitively by customer teams already as well!

Which other cars are they tending to be fighting with?

[zebedee]

Guvernator said:

I have had a go in an Evora. While the car feels just about quick enough, the engine is coarse, not very eager to rev and sounds like it's strained. In a word it's what you would expect from a family saloon engine, not a £50k sportscar and I am sure I have read reviews which pretty much say the same thing. The engine in a Cayman\Boxster is superior in every department. Anyway I don't want to turn this into an Evora bashing thread. The GT4 version is awesome

You should have pressed the sport button and taken it towards the limited. I have a video clip of it, lovely V6 soundtrack! Agree it is a bit reluctant down the rev range but the chassis is so good, you don't need to go slow enough to drop down there! Looked at positively, when you want to cruise along and not be stressed, and it is acting like a saloon car, especially with 2 kids in the back, it could be seen as a bonus. As a package I do find it convincing, with a Cosworth 4 litre version (based on the GTE car) if it were £10k more, then it would wipe the floor of any competition still and be great value. Not aware of any build quality issues, it is superbly engineered, some early pres cars had issues which got reported but I did 1000 miles in a week and it was faultless and felt very well put together.

[zebedee]

braddo said:

Which other cars are they tending to be fighting with?

BMW M3, Nissan 370Z, Aston Martin AMV8, Ginetta, KTM horrible non car x-bow horrible thing, rules and regs slightly different for national classes and FIA I think

[Abby]

zebedee said:

BMW M3, Nissan 370Z, Aston Martin AMV8, Ginetta, KTM horrible non car x-bow horrible thing, rules and regs slightly different for national classes and FIA I think

£125k seems a lot of money. Can't honestly see where all that goes compared to a Ginetta G50. Disagree about the KTM, probably a step into the future for most manufacturers, indeed I think the McClaren MP4 has just copied the KTM with a carbon tub. Not be long before Lotus decide that a bit of glue and aluminium isn't quite the future.

[Scuffers]

Abby said:

£125k seems a lot of money. Can't honestly see where all that goes compared to a Ginetta G50. Disagree about the KTM, probably a step into the future for most manufacturers, indeed I think the McClaren MP4 has just copied the KTM with a carbon tub. Not be long before Lotus decide that a bit of glue and aluminium isn't quite the future.

clearly you have never actually looked at any of these cars to make comments like that.

for example, ask Xtrac how much a gearbox cost or Cosworth how much the engine costs....

[Dainty Ankles]

Abby said:

£125k seems a lot of money. Can't honestly see where all that goes compared to a Ginetta G50. Disagree about the KTM, probably a step into the future for most manufacturers, indeed I think the McClaren MP4 has just copied the KTM with a carbon tub. Not be long before Lotus decide that a bit of glue and aluminium isn't quite the future.

....the McLaren tub that actually weighs more (~6kgs) than an Evora (2+2!) tub, costs considerably more to make and offers no more torsional stiffness. Yep - the future right there!

[Scuffers]

Dainty Ankles said:

....the McLaren tub that actually weighs more (~6kgs) than an Evora (2+2!) tub, costs considerably more to make and offers no more torsional stiffness. Yep - the future right there!

want to back that up with some details?

[zebedee]

Abby said:

£125k seems a lot of money. Can't honestly see where all that goes compared to a Ginetta G50. Disagree about the KTM, probably a step into the future for most manufacturers, indeed I think the McClaren MP4 has just copied the KTM with a carbon tub. Not be long before Lotus decide that a bit of glue and aluminium isn't quite the future.

it just isn't a GT car, that is my problem with it racing in GT series. It does look horrible too, not a nice line in sight

[Abby]

Scuffers said:

Abby said:

£125k seems a lot of money. Can't honestly see where all that goes compared to a Ginetta G50. Disagree about the KTM, probably a step into the future for most manufacturers, indeed I think the McClaren MP4 has just copied the KTM with a carbon tub. Not be long before Lotus decide that a bit of glue and aluminium isn't quite the future.

clearly you have never actually looked at any of these cars to make comments like that.

for example, ask Xtrac how much a gearbox cost or Cosworth how much the engine costs....

Sorry Scuffers, you're right I clearly haven't looked at a breakdown in costs nor would I want to. However I don't see the Lotus running away with any GT championship and I don't think anybody would complain with a V6 / Hewland combination for half the money. Fact is the Evora isn't hugely better than a G50, unless you can point me towards some results that prove differently.

[Abby]

Dainty Ankles said:

Abby said:

£125k seems a lot of money. Can't honestly see where all that goes compared to a Ginetta G50. Disagree about the KTM, probably a step into the future for most manufacturers, indeed I think the McClaren MP4 has just copied the KTM with a carbon tub. Not be long before Lotus decide that a bit of glue and aluminium isn't quite the future.

....the McLaren tub that actually weighs more (~6kgs) than an Evora (2+2!) tub, costs considerably more to make and offers no more torsional stiffness. Yep - the future right there!

Ahh right, apologies to you also DA. Maybe we should send an email to Martin Whitmarsh and tell him he's barking up the wrong tree with that carbon stuff. Aluminium and glue

Please don't compare a Mclaren with an Evora, let some common sense prevail.

[Scuffers]

Abby said:

Scuffers said:

Abby said:

£125k seems a lot of money. Can't honestly see where all that goes compared to a Ginetta G50. Disagree about the KTM, probably a step into the future for most manufacturers, indeed I think the McClaren MP4 has just copied the KTM with a carbon tub. Not be long before Lotus decide that a bit of glue and aluminium isn't quite the future.

clearly you have never actually looked at any of these cars to make comments like that.

for example, ask Xtrac how much a gearbox cost or Cosworth how much the engine costs....

Sorry Scuffers, you're right I clearly haven't looked at a breakdown in costs nor would I want to. However I don't see the Lotus running away with any GT championship and I don't think anybody would complain with a V6 / Hewland combination for half the money. Fact is the Evora isn't hugely better than a G50, unless you can point me towards some results that prove differently.

get you!

look, I am not for one minute suggesting hat because it costs more and has an expensive engine and box that it will wipe the floor in GT4 (ever heard of equalisation?).

As you seem to be a big fan of the G50, you should understand the differences, most cars in GT racing are modified from homologated road cars.

[zebedee]

Abby said:

Ahh right, apologies to you also DA. Maybe we should send an email to Martin Whitmarsh and tell him he's barking up the wrong tree with that carbon stuff. Aluminium and glue

Please don't compare a Mclaren with an Evora, let some common sense prevail.

was only comparing chassis stats. Jaguar seemed to think bonded aluminium was a good idea too, which it clearly is!

[Dainty Ankles]

zebedee said:

Abby said:

Ahh right, apologies to you also DA. Maybe we should send an email to Martin Whitmarsh and tell him he's barking up the wrong tree with that carbon stuff. Aluminium and glue

Please don't compare a Mclaren with an Evora, let some common sense prevail.

was only comparing chassis stats. Jaguar seemed to think bonded aluminium was a good idea too, which it clearly is!

Plus Aston Martin.
Abby, firstly you were the one who raised the Mclaren MP4-12C on this Evora thread and secondly what is wrong with comparing them as the tub, front and rear subframes are of a similar concept. Not suprisingly as there are a lot of ex-Lotus staff there. The Evora set up has won a lot of awards within the industry, common sense says it is not a past art.

[Abby]

Scuffers said:

Abby said:

Scuffers said:

Abby said:

£125k seems a lot of money. Can't honestly see where all that goes compared to a Ginetta G50. Disagree about the KTM, probably a step into the future for most manufacturers, indeed I think the McClaren MP4 has just copied the KTM with a carbon tub. Not be long before Lotus decide that a bit of glue and aluminium isn't quite the future.

clearly you have never actually looked at any of these cars to make comments like that.

for example, ask Xtrac how much a gearbox cost or Cosworth how much the engine costs....

Sorry Scuffers, you're right I clearly haven't looked at a breakdown in costs nor would I want to. However I don't see the Lotus running away with any GT championship and I don't think anybody would complain with a V6 / Hewland combination for half the money. Fact is the Evora isn't hugely better than a G50, unless you can point me towards some results that prove differently.

get you!

look, I am not for one minute suggesting hat because it costs more and has an expensive engine and box that it will wipe the floor in GT4 (ever heard of equalisation?).

As you seem to be a big fan of the G50, you should understand the differences, most cars in GT racing are modified from homologated road cars.

Not really a fan of the G50, all I questioned is the price difference between the Evora GT4 and the G50. Maybe Wookie could enlighten us as to how much the Evora has been restricted due to it's alleged superior box and engine ? If it's double the money you would of thought it would need some decent restriction. Maybe Wookie will reveal all and then I'd understand the extra cost.

[Scuffers]

Abby said:

Not really a fan of the G50, all I questioned is the price difference between the Evora GT4 and the G50. Maybe Wookie could enlighten us as to how much the Evora has been restricted due to it's alleged superior box and engine ? If it's double the money you would of thought it would need some decent restriction. Maybe Wookie will reveal all and then I'd understand the extra cost.

forget engine and box, just look at the car itself....

[Abby]

Dainty Ankles said:

Plus Aston Martin.
Abby, firstly you were the one who raised the Mclaren MP4-12C on this Evora thread and secondly what is wrong with comparing them as the tub, front and rear subframes are of a similar concept. Not suprisingly as there are a lot of ex-Lotus staff there. The Evora set up has won a lot of awards within the industry, common sense says it is not a past art.

OK DA, just had a quick look at the specs and not gone into detail.

Mclaren MP4 1336kg 590hp
Evora S 1437kg 345hp

Clearly Lotus take pride in producing lightweight sports cars, but maybe they need to take a look at what KTM and Mclaren have been doing recently.

[Ug_lee]

peter450 said:

kambites said:

Better in what way? I don't think I've ever actually seen a road test criticise the engine for anything other than the badge on the rocker cover.

Better as in the direct injection version of the engine, which makes around 310 + hp in standard tune, so lotus could have probably got 330 + seeing as they managed to get 280 from the current one which only makes around 250 in toyota trim

The S/C version would have been a real rocket

The 2GR-FSE block is designed for longitudinal mount applications. They may have got away with a 2GR-FE block and grafted on the 2GR-FSE direct injection stuff. But the engine becomes even taller than it already is. With an Eaton TVS unit on the top of that it would have stuck out above the roofline

As for comments that the 2GR-FE engine is on its last legs and doesn't befit the car. Just let the poor thing breathe properly. Poor exhaust manifold design, restrictive intake and catalytic converters also conspire to rob the engine of the power it really can muster.

I have the same engine producing 325hp from just a few simple bolt ons. I expect quite soon to see aftermarket support to improve considerably. Especially as the engines are in literally millions of cars in the US.

[zebedee]

Abby said:

OK DA, just had a quick look at the specs and not gone into detail.

Mclaren MP4 1336kg 590hp
Evora S 1437kg 345hp

Clearly Lotus take pride in producing lightweight sports cars, but maybe they need to take a look at what KTM and Mclaren have been doing recently.

but now you are making the comparison that you rightly considered pointless. It was chassis weight and strength that was brought up.

[Abby]

zebedee said:

but now you are making the comparison that you rightly considered pointless. It was chassis weight and strength that was brought up.

Agreed, totally pointless but these figures do highlight one of the reasons why.

The original remark I had was I couldn't see the extra cost of the Evora GT4. I noticed Wookie races in British GT against the G50 and KTM and if they are equalised then the equalisation needed should give us a reason to spend the extra money on an Evora GT4.

Forget the KTM looking a bit odd (FIA says it's a GT car, so I don't think even a Pistonheads forumite can overturn that) but really you've got 3 cars with 3 different chasiss and the Evora being most expensive by far. So for me to put this to bed, tell me that the Evora carries the most ballast by a fair margin and I'll accept the Evora GT4 is worth the extra.

So come on Wookie give us the facts and we can see in performance what you get for your £125k.

[The Wookie]

Abby said:

£125k seems a lot of money. Can't honestly see where all that goes compared to a Ginetta G50.

Actually once you've specced up a G50 to gt4 competitive spec, it can hit up to 110k from what I've been told. £125k is pretty typical for the class.

Also the Evora is a solid car reliability wise, whereas the ginetta is known to suffer a few problems and require a bit more upkeep on a weekend. The G50 has strong points though, it's light so it is easy on it's tyres, and not really having a road car equivalent it's got rose jointed suspension so has more adjustability on offer.