Mclaren F1 in big accident

[Sifly]

J4CKO said:

I don't get why its such an achievement to do 37,000 miles in one of the most thoroughly engineered cars ever made, lend me one and I will bang that many miles out in a year ! we had a Rover 114D (Metro, none turbo diesel) for the kids to drive round the field that had done 120,000 miles in six years, my respect and sympathies go to the poor sod that did 20,000 miles a year in that !

I did'nt mean doing 37k was some amazing 'achievement', I just doubt there are many with more than a few thousand miles on the clock, and that most spend their days (and years) locked away like motoring trophies in private collections!

I remember reading an article on the F1, someone involved with McLaren (possibly Gordon Murray) has the prototype at home and regularly uses it to this day.

[Pork]

Sifly said:

I wonder if any other 'production' F1 has higher mileage than Rowan's?

Think he said (on TG) he had done 37,000 miles in it so far?!
Can't be many other ones around with that sort of distance under their wheels?!

I think it's next impending 'service' might be it's most expensive to date!!

Anyway, a true petrol head, hope he makes a quick recovery.

Was reading an atricle he wrote recently when he said he'd done 30k in various F1's. Not sure when the article was written, certainly after the Bugatti Veyron was launched.

[anonymous-user]

Firstly, glad to hear that RA is only "walking wounded", as it clearly could have been a lot worse!

Regarding repair, there is simply no way of telling from those pics as to the repairability of the tub. As the rear subframe was pulled off the tub, it may well have seriously de-laminated the bonded in bosses where it attaches (especially as it looks like it probably "twisted" off) If there are large areas of delamination then the tub's had it really. The powertrain may also have taken a major hit in the side swipe, with halfshfts getting rammed into diff's etc in the impact.(leading to broken castings etc) Obviously there will also be a large amount of "cosmetic" damage (but ££ on an F1, things like heat shields etc). I should immagine MCL will have a few bits of drivetrain lying around they could scavange parts from, but i have no idea if any spare tubs exist (or the tooling is still around to re-manufacture one)??????

[paulrussell]

Max_Torque said:

Firstly, glad to hear that RA is only "walking wounded", as it clearly could have been a lot worse!

Regarding repair, there is simply no way of telling from those pics as to the repairability of the tub. As the rear subframe was pulled off the tub, it may well have seriously de-laminated the bonded in bosses where it attaches (especially as it looks like it probably "twisted" off) If there are large areas of delamination then the tub's had it really. The powertrain may also have taken a major hit in the side swipe, with halfshfts getting rammed into diff's etc in the impact.(leading to broken castings etc) Obviously there will also be a large amount of "cosmetic" damage (but ££ on an F1, things like heat shields etc). I should immagine MCL will have a few bits of drivetrain lying around they could scavange parts from, but i have no idea if any spare tubs exist (or the tooling is still around to re-manufacture one)??????

I'd of thought the tooling is still at Mclaren, as most of F1's still exist and, I'd of though they planned ahead that some may get damaged beyond repair. I think that they could build a brand new F1, and the only major diffrance would be the engine.

I hope RK makes a full recovery and the F1 comes back onto our roads

[Mastodon2]

I would imagine that Mclaren probably could patch that car together again, but would rather not. They will source him a new car, hell they could build him one but the cost for a one-off new build would be staggering. Still, the blokes got a few quid and he has always loved the F1. I don't think he'll be getting in that one again though, it looks totally shagged.

[Peloton25]

Sifly said:

I wonder if any other 'production' F1 has higher mileage than Rowan's?

Think he said (on TG) he had done 37,000 miles in it so far?!
Can't be many other ones around with that sort of distance under their wheels?!

Flemke has more - currently at 40,000. Also there is another UK owner who originally purchased #020 and still has it today who has likely logged close to if not more than 60,000 miles to date.

RobboC said:

Oh god the second pic is terrible!

The rear off side structure looks badly damaged and I thought that was part of the main tub. I can't really see how that can be repaired unless there are sections that bolt on? I bow to those who know and prey it can be fixed!

Actually the rear section isn't part of the tub at all. The engine in an F1 is a stressed member and carries the transaxle, rear suspension and portions of the rear bodywork tie into all of that.

Here's a pair of photos you can enlarge to see a bare F1 chassis (pretty sure this is #055 in build) and it's fairly clear where the tub ends in the rear. Both of these are clickable.

-

The fact that you can see the gold foiled panel that insulates the fuel cell from the engine compartment in that awful photo of Rowan's car is a very good sign in my opinion. It means that the damage very likely was behind that point and also that if there really was a fire that it did not come anywhere near the fuel cell.

>8^)
ER

Edited by Peloton25 on Saturday 6th August 01:18

[cahami]

Rowan, I for one think its great that you managed to use an f1 as a regular car for so long(is yours the highest milage f1?) i hope you are ok and that the car can be fixed. seen you at goodwood before and thought fair play to you, you obviously enjoy what you do, we all would if we could.
ps, when you get it back give me a shout ill come out with you and keep watch

[Peloton25]

Mastodon2 said:

I would imagine that Mclaren probably could patch that car together again, but would rather not. They will source him a new car, hell they could build him one but the cost for a one-off new build would be staggering. Still, the blokes got a few quid and he has always loved the F1. I don't think he'll be getting in that one again though, it looks totally shagged.

McLaren patched this car back together in 2009/2010 for a US owner after a fire without needing to build a new tub for the car:



Many of the same items were damaged and one could even argue that the heat of the fire caused more damage with the delaminating layers of carbon fiber than Rowan's accident would have. The rebuild of this car (#067) was reported on in a story that was published in SCM in October 2010:

A McLaren F1’s Rise from the Ashes

>8^)
ER

Edited by Peloton25 on Saturday 6th August 04:58

[maser_spyder]

Monty Zoomer said:

maser_spyder said:

Can I be the first to suggest it'll T-Cut out?

No. I've already read that one about nine million times on Pistonheads and it has never been even slightly funny.

You weren't the first and you almost certainly won't be the last, I think this 'joke' will be reused at least another nine million times.

Why don't the mods add 'T-Cut' to the swear filter?

Don't make me add the whoosh parrot as well....

[Justices]

It's all down to that bloody sign post!

[Zarkingfardwarks]

Very glad Rowan escaped with minor injuries- none would have been better of course.
I am sure the McLaren-ties will have a cunning plan to put it back together and I hope Rowan continues to use his great and lovely cars on our roads rather than them being garage queens. Maybe he can use the 16 cylinder Phantom while his shoulder recovers? All the best from me anyway.

[DonkeyApple]

Mastodon2 said:

I would imagine that Mclaren probably could patch that car together again, but would rather not. They will source him a new car, hell they could build him one but the cost for a one-off new build would be staggering. Still, the blokes got a few quid and he has always loved the F1. I don't think he'll be getting in that one again though, it looks totally shagged.

You would suspect that over the years they have seen worse ones dragged off tracks and returned.

[Kiltox]

Clivey said:

After seeing the "two careful lady owners" comment in your profile, I can only assume you know exactly what I'm talking about!

[anonymous-user]

Peloton25 said:

Mastodon2 said:

I would imagine that Mclaren probably could patch that car together again, but would rather not. They will source him a new car, hell they could build him one but the cost for a one-off new build would be staggering. Still, the blokes got a few quid and he has always loved the F1. I don't think he'll be getting in that one again though, it looks totally shagged.

McLaren patched this car back together in 2009/2010 for a US owner after a fire without needing to build a new tub for the car:



Many of the same items were damaged and one could even argue that the heat of the fire caused more damage with the delaminating layers of carbon fiber than Rowan's accident would have. The rebuild of this car (#067) was reported on in a story that was published in SCM in October 2010:

A McLaren F1’s Rise from the Ashes

>8^)
ER

Edited by Peloton25 on Saturday 6th August 04:58

Although that pic^^^ looks fairly bad, the fire is really pretty contained above the exhaust system, and the CF parts that have been destroyed are sections that extend backwards from the main tub. That makes it quite "easy" to remove them and bond new parts in place (just as will have been done when the tub was first manufactured) In RA's car, the powertrain has been forcebly torn from the tub, and the mounting bosses are much more integral to the structure than the rear "bodywork" sections damaged in that fire picture. Of course, anything is fixable, but i suspect RA's could be touch and go ;-(

[JPearson]

Sifly said:

I wonder if any other 'production' F1 has higher mileage than Rowan's?

Think he said (on TG) he had done 37,000 miles in it so far?!
Can't be many other ones around with that sort of distance under their wheels?!

I think it's next impending 'service' might be it's most expensive to date!!

Anyway, a true petrol head, hope he makes a quick recovery.

Think Gordon Murry's is tipping about 70k? Although okay that was a test car and is slightly different styling wise from production cars he uses it all year round!

[Peloton25]

This is chassis #020 owned by Tony Smith since new and should be in the 60,000+ mile range. He takes it all over Europe to different vintage racing events he competes in each year. It was originally a standard road car but he had it upgraded with the High Downforce Kit in the early part of the last decade.



Other than the three remaining development prototypes (XP3-XP5) I don't believe there are any other F1s that have seen as much use.

flemke said recently his car is right at 40k. Hopefully soon that number will begin increasing at a decent rate again.

There's another UK F1 (#046) that's been getting a ton of use lately by its new owner and it wouldn't surprise me if he's neck and neck with Rowan's car by now. Apparently he's looking to be the first owner to exceed 100,000 miles.



The car's previous owners had already exceeded 28,000 miles before he bought it in late 2010.



>8^)
ER

Edited by Peloton25 on Saturday 6th August 18:35

[RobboC]

Peloton25 said:

Actually the rear section isn't part of the tub at all. The engine in an F1 is a stressed member and carries the transaxle, rear suspension and portions of the rear bodywork tie into all of that.

Here's a pair of photos you can enlarge to see a bare F1 chassis (pretty sure this is #055 in build) and it's fairly clear where the tub ends in the rear. Both of these are clickable.

-

The fact that you can see the gold foiled panel that insulates the fuel cell from the engine compartment in that awful photo of Rowan's car is a very good sign in my opinion. It means that the damage very likely was behind that point and also that if there really was a fire that it did not come anywhere near the fuel cell.

>8^)
ER

Edited by Peloton25 on Saturday 6th August 01:18

Brilliant knowledge as ever! But doesn't the rear off-side 'haunch' seem removed? And from the pictures you've posted, they seem to extend well past the firewall. Still trying to figure how that can be blended into the tub.

More interested to know how rather than disagreeing!

[Peloton25]

Yes - it looks like from perhaps the location of the external oil tank, or at least from the luggage locker back that side of the chassis is missing. Here's a picture of what should be there:



I don't know enough technically about carbon fiber construction to explain how they can remove certain damaged sections and insert new ones, but it has been done many times to repair other F1s in the past including for the car that caught fire in the USA in 2009.

The car was constructed in stages too. The F1's bodyshell and chassis were made up of something like 4,000 individual pieces of carbon fiber cut to size and then glued together in moulds in order to form the rigid structure. This photo shows a partially assembled F1 chassis headed for one round of baking inside the autoclave:



If you go back to the original Top Gear video where Tiff Needel took XP4 for a thrill ride you can see an example of the construction process beginning at the 1:30 mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7Azl-drqMk

>8^)
ER

Edited by Peloton25 on Saturday 6th August 23:19

[Welshbeef]

That is a great video not seen it for years

The noise mmmmm that's why V12's are the best noise of any race and road cars

[DonkeyApple]

Welshbeef said:

That is a great video not seen it for years

The noise mmmmm that's why V12's are the best noise of any race and road cars

It was a nice reminder of just what a special car the F1 is. Truly wonderful.