RE: SOTW: Austin Ambassador/Princess
Discussion
macscrooge said:
Splendid stuff! A Princess 2 (1.7HL) was the first car I ever drove - which perhaps explains my subsequent fearlessness when manouevering large cars! It was my dad's car which he ran for 3 years from new. Though far from perfect I have given it the benefit of the doubt and remember it with some affection. I wonder what happened to HSP 30W.
It's a fridge now probablyThe vehicle details for HSP 30W are:
Date of Liability 01 04 1993
Date of First Registration 09 05 1981
Year of Manufacture 1981
Cylinder Capacity (cc) 1700cc
CO2 Emissions Not Available
Fuel Type PETROL
Export Marker N
Vehicle Status Unlicensed
Vehicle Colour SILVER
Vehicle Type Approval Not Available
macscrooge said:
It was replaced with an Ambassador 2.0 HLS with the twin-carb O-series engine and fripperies like powered windows, locks and steering! This was actually quite a weapon in it's day and while nowhere like as quick as say, a 2.0 Sierra, unlike the Ford it was a substantial car - at the cost of 22mpg . OSR 388Y was sold in 1985.
Also a fridge now probablyThe vehicle details for OSR 388Y are:
Date of Liability 01 01 1992
Date of First Registration 11 03 1983
Year of Manufacture 1983
Cylinder Capacity (cc) 1994cc
CO2 Emissions Not Available
Fuel Type PETROL
Export Marker N
Vehicle Status Unlicensed
Vehicle Colour WHITE
Vehicle Type Approval Not Available
Riggers said:
I think there was a lot more to the death of BL than the products, which were - albeit inconsistently - innovative, interesting and ahead of the game.
If BL had ever formed an effective management structure or grasped the concept of marketing in any way effectively,the British car industry could look very different today. Don't blame it on the cars.
But the cars WERE crap. The management and the unions destroyed the company true. The unions believed that they could demand whatever they wanted and the management would not move out of the 50's but both were so arrogant to believe we made the best cars in the world when we made mostly crap. I mean we stillmade cars with trunions ffs. We innovated on single items and made a song and dance about them while japan where quietly making cars that actually startedIf BL had ever formed an effective management structure or grasped the concept of marketing in any way effectively,the British car industry could look very different today. Don't blame it on the cars.
on a cold morning.
Gary C said:
Riggers said:
I think there was a lot more to the death of BL than the products, which were - albeit inconsistently - innovative, interesting and ahead of the game.
If BL had ever formed an effective management structure or grasped the concept of marketing in any way effectively,the British car industry could look very different today. Don't blame it on the cars.
But the cars WERE crap. The management and the unions destroyed the company true. The unions believed that they could demand whatever they wanted and the management would not move out of the 50's but both were so arrogant to believe we made the best cars in the world when we made mostly crap. I mean we stillmade cars with trunions ffs. We innovated on single items and made a song and dance about them while japan where quietly making cars that actually startedIf BL had ever formed an effective management structure or grasped the concept of marketing in any way effectively,the British car industry could look very different today. Don't blame it on the cars.
on a cold morning.
B'stard Child said:
Alternatively - the cars were OK - Japan just raised the bar reliability wise - unfortunately what they produced was bland, insipid and totally devolved of any driver feedback element - IMHO more crap
Not all of it, the export cars in the early 60's weren't that exciting, but they exported more driver orientated cars once they had established a mainstream revenue stream and established a dealer network.Strawman said:
B'stard Child said:
Alternatively - the cars were OK - Japan just raised the bar reliability wise - unfortunately what they produced was bland, insipid and totally devolved of any driver feedback element - IMHO more crap
Not all of it, the export cars in the early 60's weren't that exciting, but they exported more driver orientated cars once they had established a mainstream revenue stream and established a dealer network.I was flogging J tin at that time and I moved to Fiat
B'stard Child said:
Alternatively - the cars were OK - Japan just raised the bar reliability wise - unfortunately what they produced was bland, insipid and totally devolved of any driver feedback element - IMHO more crap
Wont argue that a 120y was the last word in driver involvment, but have you ever driven a marina or a maxi ?The uk made some nice cars but lost the plot
compare an mga with an mgb, I would not describe it as much progress.
Thing is, BL told people what they wanted, Japan actually sold them what they wanted (We are talking the mass market here)
B'stard Child said:
So by lets say the mid 80's they were all brilliant drivers machines??
I was flogging J tin at that time and I moved to Fiat
No most were Nissan Micras and Toyota Corollas, but there was some good stuff by then as well. FIAT hardly have an illustrious back catalogue, the turbo coupé I suppose.I was flogging J tin at that time and I moved to Fiat
Gary C said:
. Japan actually sold them what they wanted (We are talking the mass market here)
What, a radio as standard?Japanese cars were dynamically inferior and still rusted to buggery. If PH had been around then, they would have been lambasted mercilessly. That sasi, my father had a 70s Corolla 30 and the interior was very good but in fairness, British cars had upped their game but many had defected and were comparing them to their 60s cars they were trading in.
LuS1fer said:
What, a radio as standard?
Japanese cars were dynamically inferior and still rusted to buggery. If PH had been around then, they would have been lambasted mercilessly. That sasi, my father had a 70s Corolla 30 and the interior was very good but in fairness, British cars had upped their game but many had defected and were comparing them to their 60s cars they were trading in.
The Ital was a good example. BL thought getting a ital design makeover on a marina was a good idea. You cant argue with the fact that BL cars did not improve fast enough whereas jap car improved every 1 to 2 years.Japanese cars were dynamically inferior and still rusted to buggery. If PH had been around then, they would have been lambasted mercilessly. That sasi, my father had a 70s Corolla 30 and the interior was very good but in fairness, British cars had upped their game but many had defected and were comparing them to their 60s cars they were trading in.
BL made some awful cars. Princess, marina, maxi being from the period when they were at their worst. Montego, maesto, metro were much better, but not good enough keep up with the rapidly improving japs.
Gary C said:
B'stard Child said:
Alternatively - the cars were OK - Japan just raised the bar reliability wise - unfortunately what they produced was bland, insipid and totally devolved of any driver feedback element - IMHO more crap
Wont argue that a 120y was the last word in driver involvment, but have you ever driven a marina or a maxi ?Gary C said:
The uk made some nice cars but lost the plot
compare an mga with an mgb, I would not describe it as much progress.
Thing is, BL told people what they wanted, Japan actually sold them what they wanted (We are talking the mass market here)
I'll agree with you there - Japan made cars that were more reliable out of the box but that didn't make them nice to drivecompare an mga with an mgb, I would not describe it as much progress.
Thing is, BL told people what they wanted, Japan actually sold them what they wanted (We are talking the mass market here)
Strawman said:
B'stard Child said:
So by lets say the mid 80's they were all brilliant drivers machines??
I was flogging J tin at that time and I moved to Fiat
No most were Nissan Micras and Toyota Corollas, but there was some good stuff by then as well. FIAT hardly have an illustrious back catalogue, the turbo coupé I suppose.I was flogging J tin at that time and I moved to Fiat
Fiat were selling Panda 750 & 1000S (which was a great drivers car) Fiat Uno (turbo was fun) X19 (last versions) Regatta (Prefered in estate form) and Croma.
Gary C said:
The Ital was a good example. BL thought getting a ital design makeover on a marina was a good idea. You cant argue with the fact that BL cars did not improve fast enough whereas jap car improved every 1 to 2 years.
BL made some awful cars. Princess, marina, maxi being from the period when they were at their worst. Montego, maesto, metro were much better, but not good enough keep up with the rapidly improving japs.
The Marina was ancient when it was launched - the Ital was a bad joke that my ex mother-in-law bought.BL made some awful cars. Princess, marina, maxi being from the period when they were at their worst. Montego, maesto, metro were much better, but not good enough keep up with the rapidly improving japs.
Never really liked the Maxi and don't know anyone who bought one. However, my father bought the revised Princess 2200HLS and it was a very nice car indeed and far, far nicer than the 1977 Toyota Cressida it replaced. I never really understood the hate for the Princess or the later Ambassador. They weren't great in a PH sense but the hydragas was very wafty and the interior space was peerless. I know there were issues with Princess 1 but the 2 with the O-Series engines were much better.
I actually disagree that the Montego, Maestro and Metro were better - they were better dynamically but the interiors were worse (the Citroen BX was a much better car) and BL went all bland trying to compete with the Golf and Jetta. The Metro was far worse than the Mini...enough said.
How was the Metro worse than the Mini ? everyone loves the Mini and there are some rose tinted specs, for most people a Metro had better suspension, more room, better visibility, more versative being a hatch. The engines and transmissions were pretty much the same, the Mini handled well mainly as it had very little suspension, they were easily upset by bumps mid corner and as standard they werent the handling legend people think they are. Think half the issue in the Mini versus Metro thing was like the Fiat 500 and 126, cute wins the day.
LuS1fer said:
The Marina was ancient when it was launched - the Ital was a bad joke that my ex mother-in-law bought.
Never really liked the Maxi and don't know anyone who bought one. However, my father bought the revised Princess 2200HLS and it was a very nice car indeed and far, far nicer than the 1977 Toyota Cressida it replaced. I never really understood the hate for the Princess or the later Ambassador. They weren't great in a PH sense but the hydragas was very wafty and the interior space was peerless. I know there were issues with Princess 1 but the 2 with the O-Series engines were much better.
I actually disagree that the Montego, Maestro and Metro were better - they were better dynamically but the interiors were worse (the Citroen BX was a much better car) and BL went all bland trying to compete with the Golf and Jetta. The Metro was far worse than the Mini...enough said.
Humm. Metro did not have the mini's aura, but was a more comfortable, faster, more spacious car. Pity they used the hydragas, while it was trumpeted as the best thing since sliced bread, it was too bouncy at the rear on the MG model.Never really liked the Maxi and don't know anyone who bought one. However, my father bought the revised Princess 2200HLS and it was a very nice car indeed and far, far nicer than the 1977 Toyota Cressida it replaced. I never really understood the hate for the Princess or the later Ambassador. They weren't great in a PH sense but the hydragas was very wafty and the interior space was peerless. I know there were issues with Princess 1 but the 2 with the O-Series engines were much better.
I actually disagree that the Montego, Maestro and Metro were better - they were better dynamically but the interiors were worse (the Citroen BX was a much better car) and BL went all bland trying to compete with the Golf and Jetta. The Metro was far worse than the Mini...enough said.
The maestro handled quite well in MG form (good in the snow). The monty no go was ok but I dont have enough experience to comment ( though the talking dash model was novel)
We made good cars, sat back on our laurels and produced poor insipid, 'grandad' cars. By the time we noticed, it was much too late.
Maybe its time the Uk should start again !
Someone came round with a 1995 Toyota Camrey and it honestly looked like it was from the early to mid 1980s. Plastic, plastic and more plastic! Oh and dull but bulletproof.
I agree about the Marina. The Maxi was OK I suppose but I did not like the steering wheel driving position. Also the gearbox was a nightmare.
I also liked the Princess and it seemed like a good all round largish car.
As for foreign stuff at the time they either rusted badly (Strada, X19 etc) failed on the electrics or (at the time) some Japanese parts were very expensive or hard to get.
Even Fords were bad on rust. I remember the Escorts seemed to have the dreaded tinworm within about 2 years or so old.
I agree about the Marina. The Maxi was OK I suppose but I did not like the steering wheel driving position. Also the gearbox was a nightmare.
I also liked the Princess and it seemed like a good all round largish car.
As for foreign stuff at the time they either rusted badly (Strada, X19 etc) failed on the electrics or (at the time) some Japanese parts were very expensive or hard to get.
Even Fords were bad on rust. I remember the Escorts seemed to have the dreaded tinworm within about 2 years or so old.
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